Effective Instructor: "Combat" Experience Required?

[turnandshoot4]

Do you feel this thread got to the bottom of your question, Jackson?

It went off topic fast.

 

[Jackson]

Well, sort of. It'll do. Some off-topic stuff was expected.

 

[iChokePeople]

Well, sort of. It'll do. Some off-topic stuff was expected.

THIS IS INGO!!

 

[Jackson]

THIS IS INGO!!

Good thing I am not standing next to a bottomless well.

 

[Coach]

I find myself wondering if it was the thought of Jackson doing this drill naked that killed this thread.

It did not help.

 

[rhino]

I have neither military nor law enforcement experience. I have never been in a gunfight. I have never been shot.

 

[Jackson]

I have neither military nor law enforcement experience. I have never been in a gunfight. I have never been shot.

We can fix some of that...

 

[rhino]

We can fix some of that...

Yeah, I walked right into that, didn't I.

 

[cedartop]

I have neither military nor law enforcement experience. I have never been in a gunfight. I have never been shot.

Hmm, well apparently all of those people who trained with you and thought you were a good teacher were wrong.

 

[OneBadV8]

Hmm, well apparently all of those people who trained with you and thought you were a good teacher were wrong.

He's been in a knife fight though, so that counts for something...

 

[Streck-Fu]

Hmm, well apparently all of those people who trained with you and thought you were a good teacher were wrong.

Interesting way to snidely deflect from the original question and most of the related discussion.

 

[rhino]

Hmm, well apparently all of those people who trained with you and thought you were a good teacher were wrong.

I'm thinking the same thing! It's interesting though, that some people make assumptions without really enough information to make them reasonable. Other members of ACT have significant military (and actual combat) experience, but I know for a fact some people have assumed otherwise. It's a smaller world than some realize and things get back to people sooner or later. My amusement is generally proportional to how far the assumptions deviate from the truth. Heh!

He's been in a knife fight though, so that counts for something...

Does it count if you lost?

Interesting way to deflect from the original question and most of the related discussion.

How so?

 

[OneBadV8]

Does it count if you lost?

YES! Now you can teach what NOT to do

 

[Streck-Fu]

How so?

I don't know if anyone expressed an opinion that a military experience instructor is 'required' as asked by the OP but I stated that I prefer such experience and why. Review my post #50....

I don't recall any one stating that non-prior military instructors were not good firearms instructors. However, they do lack the specific experience defined in the OP.

Cedar's snarky comment implies that people advocating for military experienced instructors are discounting all other instructors and that is not true. I have no reason to doubt that any of the instructor participating in this discussion are perfectly competent to teach students how to effective shoot and manipulate their weapons of choice.

Let's try this, how about each instructor in this thread, reply with why you are qualified to help him react to and alleviate the specific stressors experienced in a violent attack. Pretend that the OP is soliciting for an instructor and this is a specific requirement for getting the contract/job. Sell the OP on why you are the best person for the job.

Fire for effect.

 

[rhino]

I don't know if anyone expressed an opinion that a military experience instructor is 'required' as asked by the OP but I stated that I prefer such experience and why. Review my post #50....

I don't recall any one stating that non-prior military instructors were not good instructors.

Cedar's snarky comment implies that people advocating for military experienced instructors are discounting all other instructors and that is not true.

Okay, I see what you're saying and with respect to this discussion and this topic, I agree.

However, I have seen at least a dozen messages on INGO and many more other places over the last few years where people categorically state that they wouldn't even consider participating in a class with an instructor that did not have military or law enforcement experience. No one has expressed that in this topic, but the fact that a significant number of people do hold that opinion (more than the number who will admit it outright) is part of the reason why this topic exists.

In that context, I think cedartop's comment was less snarky and more joking with me about genuine opinions that some people really have. In fact, the message to which he responded was a setup for exactly what he said. I knew someone would help me with the punchline, I just didn't know who.

I'm well aware that some people will never, ever consider taking a class from me. Some don't even want to be in a class with people like me as fellow students (and they've told me so). The reasons vary. For some, it's because I'm not ex-military/LEO. For some, it's because I'm a fat guy. For some, it's because they perceive that I'm solely a competition shooter (which is hilarious given how bad I am at doing that activity). Some think I am incompetent. For some it's because they don't like my personality. For some it's some combination of those or something else entirely. I recognize all of this, but at this point I doesn't matter to me much. Other people do want to learn with me, and that's great. Either someone wants to learn what I can share with them or they don't. It's everyone's right to make those choices.

It's also my right to joke about it!

 

[Streck-Fu]

However, I have seen at least a dozen messages on INGO and many more other places over the last few years where people categorically state that they wouldn't even consider participating in a class with an instructor that did not have military or law enforcement experience.

I would simply say that they have that right and they are probably not your target audience any way. Don't sweat them.


At the same time, no instructor should be insulted that when someone asks for help in understanding what happens in a violent confrontation involving firearms, that the popular answer is to find someone that has been in them; the more the better.

 

[rhino]

I would simply say that they have that right and they are probably not your target audience any way. Don't sweat them.

Good advice! I would not have offered that commentary otherwise, but I wanted to provide some context for my comment and cedartop's.

At the same time, no instructor should be insulted that when someone asks for help in understanding what happens in a violent confrontation involving firearms, that the popular answer is to find someone that has been in them; the more the better.

Absolutely.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Instructors,

Do you think you draw in more students that have little training experience or a heavily experienced student? Why do you think that is?

 

[Jackson]

Instructors,

Do you think you draw in more students that have little training experience or a heavily experienced student? Why do you think that is?

Define "heavily experienced".

 

[turnandshoot4]

Jackson, you are someone I would consider a "heavily experienced" training guy. You have taken a ton of classes.

Interestingly, after looking at your list of classes I noticed you aren't heavy on the SF/SEAL, etc. crowd. Any reason why? Do you have plans on taking any of the courses from those types?

Perhaps a better question would be this: Are you more apt to take classes from someone that has trained with the Mac, Defoor, Haley, Vickers, or take the classes from those individuals yourself?

For me it is hard to pay $300-$500 for the "nugget" from some classes. I cringe when I see someone got a "nugget" from a 2 day class. For that kind of scratch I would hope someone had an earth shattering kind of experience.