-1 Noblesville Officer Noname

[92ThoStro]

I went to Kohls and bought some new pants and a couple shirts. Then I went to McDonalds in Noblesville to get a Dr. Pepper by the Autozone.
Drive-Thru was backed up quite a bit, so I went inside.
Manager took my order, gave me my foam cup, thanked, me and I went to go fill it up.

I turned around and a guy in a jacket wide-eyed asked me what "agency" I was with.
I told him I was not with any LEagency. His face completely changed, and his eyes narrowed, and asked for my ID
I said " I don't believe I have to give that to you sir "
He then identifies himself as a police officer by unzipping his jacket so I could see his shirt ( a polo that just said Noblesville PD, no badge or anything )
He then asks for my LTCH, and I gave it to him.

He then asked for my DL again. I said I don't believe I have to give it to you officer. He then asked if I was refusing to identify myself to a police officer.

I said " Am I being suspected of committing a crime? "
"YES! YOU ARE CARRYING A GUN! "
I said I already gave you my LTCH, so there is no crime here, and I don't have to show you my drivers license.

He then says I am required to carry a picture ID, and that how is he suppose to confirm the LTCH is mine and not a fake.

I said that he can call it in. He asked me for my ID again, and I said
" Am I being detained? No, you are not. " Am I free to go? " After I call this in and check on you.


So he takes his radio out, calls it in ( I did give him my name and D.O.B while he was calling me in ), and meanwhile he lectures me in front of over a dozen customers about carrying my gun and not identify myself. He is a LEO and he is just trying to protect everyone in this restaurant and I was being a smart ass to him.

I ask him how many criminals carry around a glock in a duty holster. He said " Many, you would be surprised! " I said " I don't believe that "
I stopped you because you look like a police officer, wearing a duty holster , with a sidearm like that. All police officers are required to carry their credentials, and when you told me you weren't one, I wanted to make sure you were legally carrying, and not impersonating an officer, because you look like one.

I said " Can I have your name and badge number? " He said yes, after they return my request. He then proceeds to lecture me further, and then I ask for his supervisor. He said he didn't have one with him. I then take out my phone and tell him he will be audio and video recorded at this point. He said that is fine.

The all-clear comes back, I am a law abiding citizen, yay! He gives the LTCH back, but wanted to talk to me ( lecture further about my not giving him my DL, looking like a cop ), he wouldn't give me his badge number or name until after he was done. Well, I got tired of standing there so I asked if I am being detained again. He says no, and I said " Have a good day officer " turned my back to him mid-sentence and walked to my car.

I DO NOT look like a cop, I am wearing slacks and a collared shirt, with a holster and mag pouch. No handcuffs, no badge, nothing. I never claimed to be a cop to anyone in the restaurant, and told him I was NOT one when he asked. I also drive a Sentra!

How do so many of you go years without ever being detained, yet I get detained on my first week of carrying! Maybe he is right, and a serpa level 3 and a gen 4 G21 is a bad choice to carry if you are not a cop? I OCed my revolver around IWB without any LEO ever batting an eye.

I do not want to CC a Glock 21, and since I am OCing, I would like a retention holster, so I picked the serpa level 3. The other day a Noblesville officer in uniform, with a patrol car outside was standing behind me in line, and he didn't say a word to me. I don't see why this officer who refused to ID himself, refused to get me a supervisor, and refused to believe that I don't have to give my my DL if I am not driving a car at the moment, was so concerned for everyone's safety when I was doing nothing wrong. He wasn't even in a patrol vehicle, just a SUV, looked like his personal SUV, and he was not even in uniform, nor could I see any gun or badge. If he didn't have a radio, I would think he was the one impersonating an officer!

 

[Spike_351]

**** happens, dont sweat it to much.

 

[jbombelli]

He then says I am required to carry a picture ID, and that how is he suppose to confirm the LTCH is mine and not a fake.

"That's not my problem."

" Am I being detained? No, you are not. "

"Bye."

 

[TTravis]

You handled the situation very well. I especially like the part about putting to practice the "Am I being detained?" and "Am I free to go?".

Well done sir.

 

[Somemedic]

Stop posting about it here.... wanna type something up to his superiors then do it in the form of a complaint.

I dig you need to vent but there's a better way of doing it and this guy, if he really believed he was in the right, would have rattled off his name and number to you.

A Noblesblville capt has way more juice than any of us mooks. Always complain up the chain.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Contact the Chief of the Noblesville PD. Show him the recording you made, and ask that he educate his officers better.
Alternatively, you could contact INGO advertiser Tactical Firearms Training, aka attorney Guy Relford, and see if you have the case I think you may have, ref. IC 35-47-11.1

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jwh20]

I'm not exactly sure what the legal definition of "impersonating a police officer" is in Indiana but I am sure that carrying a Glock 21 in a Serpa holster is NOT a part of that.

What a moron! They probably ran outta doughnuts early and he didn't get one so he's grumpy today!

 

[churchmouse]

This is why I CC at all times. LEO is not that sharp in general. Not all but enough to just PI$$ me off. Sounds like he had a hero complex. I would not have left until he identified himself. 911 is helpful in these matters. If you asked for a supervisor and was refused then use it. People use it for far more idiotic reasons.

Did he badge you....the shirt can be purchased/made anywhere.

 

[Double T]

He has to identify himself as well. Perhaps he was impersonating. I have never been denied a name or badge number when I ask.

 

[Scutter01]

Sounds like you need to have a talk with the Chief. Most Noblesville PD officers that I have spoken with are very supportive of the second amendment, so this attitude is a little surprising to me. If the Chief has officers who behave this way, then he needs to know about it, and especially if they are refusing to identify themselves. FOr all you know, it was some shmoe impersonating an officer himself.

 

[92ThoStro]

Thanks, I did not think about sending the video in as a way to identify him. I just chalked it up to a bad encounter in public, and he knew he was wrong, so he refused to ID himself, so I couldn't complain about it.

The reason I didn't walk away when he said I wasn't detained the very first time, was because he had my LTCH in his hand, and I think he would get pretty mad if I snatched it back

I certainly wont stop OCing because I may be thought of as impersonating an officer.

EDIT: Replies while I was typing.
NO he never showed his badge, and I never saw a gun on him, nor his duty belt. He had a huge jacket on covering him up. I on'y saw his shirt that had the printed Noblesville PD logo. He did pull out his radio from behind him, and he did call my info in, and I heard a woman's voice. He was very stern, and never got close to me, and never disarmed me, so that is better than some other encounters on here.

He also did not refuse, he just wanted to waste my time, before he I.Ded himself, I sat there staring at him nodding my head to everything he said, during the lecture, but it went on and on, in front of so many people, so I just got fed up and turned my back and walked away. I will in the future stand my ground and be more persistent if this ever happens again.

That is also good input, calling 911 to force him to I.D, that I will for sure try out next time, since he was not identify, and not in uniform.

 

[N8RV]

Sounds like you handled the confrontation well. And I agree that contacting the Chief of Police would be a prudent thing to do.

I have a question for LEOs here on INGO: How many of you and your co-workers OC when off-duty?

I've heard and read the opinions of LEOs and it seems that most seem to object to OC in principle. Usually the reasoning is that they don't want any bad guys to know who is armed. Fair enough.

However, if there's nothing illegal about OC-ing, why do we read of so many confrontations like this one? Or the recent encounter of a citizen carrying an AR coming home from the grocery store in South Bend?

Is the problem that LEOs are just not aware of the IC relating to legal firearms carry, or is it personal bias against open-carrying that drives these encounters?

 

[TTravis]

I would love to see you post that video. If the guy wanted to be an ahole, you can help him be a famous ahole, at least famous here on INGO.

 

[Scutter01]

The reason I didn't walk away when he said I wasn't detained the very first time, was because he had my LTCH in his hand, and I think he would get pretty mad if I snatched it back

Then you were being detained. I can't find the citation, but I will look for it (unless someone else knows of it offhand). I'm sure I read that if the officer refuses to return your ID, then you are being detained. I would suggest that it is even more true if he did so even after verifying the legitimacy of your license. According to the law, the investigation should end immediately. Not "immediately after a lecture".

 

[Bang-bang]

I thought a LEO must show ID when asked!! No show ID, would cause me to call 911, and inform them why I'm calling. " man says he a cops , wont show ID".

Am I correct LEO must show ID?

 

[Dead Duck]

Just Carry On!

Sounds like the only one impersonating a cop was him.

Talk with his Chief to educate his officers but watch out - some chiefs don't believe in citizens carrying at all and filter down their anti personal agenda to the whole department. Some cops are basically told to hassle any citizen they see with a gun.
It sucks but they are out there, some city chiefs and even some county sheriffs.


Always keep your audio recorder turned ON. (Even in the bathroom)
It makes no sense to turn it on after the fun starts. They aren't that expensive and you can record the whole day without having to mess with it.

*Note* - Don't pay any attention to plain closed cops until you see there credentials or their gun barrel.
A logo on a shirt doesn't count as ID. Hell - I still have lots of shirts with company logos in my closet including a few from my old fire department. Without my badge and ID, they are all just shirts.

 

[92ThoStro]

Well, back from lunch, and finishing my shopping, ( will be updating my other thread about work OC )

Yes, I found that out the hard way. I only started recording after he refused to get a supervisor, so the only thing the video shows is him listening to his radio when he was checking my LTCH, and then him handing it to me, and lecturing me about impersonating an officer, then me walking away as he is talking to me, after I had had enough of his useless stuff. I did download the audio recorder app for the android, and it even has the option to skip silence and only record when words are said, and it doesn't use up my battery and can run in the background I think. So I will start using this from now on.

I guess wearing khaki slacks and a black polo with a glock in a serpa holster is enough to stop people for impersonating an officer these days.

I have contacted the chief, and am awaiting a response from his office.

Here is a picture of him.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I stopped you because you look like a police officer

but wanted to talk to me

You do realize that he was hitting on you, right?

 

[philbert001]

This is why I CC at all times. LEO is not that sharp in general. Not all but enough to just PI$$ me off. Sounds like he had a hero complex. I would not have left until he identified himself. 911 is helpful in these matters. If you asked for a supervisor and was refused then use it. People use it for far more idiotic reasons.

Did he badge you....the shirt can be purchased/made anywhere.

This! All the way across the board! He is required to radio for a supervisor at your request. If you have video of you asking for a supervisor, and him blowing you off, that should be his ass in a sling!

 

[j706]

I went to Kohls and bought some new pants and a couple shirts. Then I went to McDonalds in Noblesville to get a Dr. Pepper by the Autozone.
Drive-Thru was backed up quite a bit, so I went inside.
Manager took my order, gave me my foam cup, thanked, me and I went to go fill it up.

I turned around and a guy in a jacket wide-eyed asked me what "agency" I was with.
I told him I was not with any LEagency. His face completely changed, and his eyes narrowed, and asked for my ID
I said " I don't believe I have to give that to you sir "
He then identifies himself as a police officer by unzipping his jacket so I could see his shirt ( a polo that just said Noblesville PD, no badge or anything )
He then asks for my LTCH, and I gave it to him.

He then asked for my DL again. I said I don't believe I have to give it to you officer. He then asked if I was refusing to identify myself to a police officer.

I said " Am I being suspected of committing a crime? "
"YES! YOU ARE CARRYING A GUN! "
I said I already gave you my LTCH, so there is no crime here, and I don't have to show you my drivers license.

He then says I am required to carry a picture ID, and that how is he suppose to confirm the LTCH is mine and not a fake.

I said that he can call it in. He asked me for my ID again, and I said
" Am I being detained? No, you are not. " Am I free to go? " After I call this in and check on you.


So he takes his radio out, calls it in ( I did give him my name and D.O.B while he was calling me in ), and meanwhile he lectures me in front of over a dozen customers about carrying my gun and not identify myself. He is a LEO and he is just trying to protect everyone in this restaurant and I was being a smart ass to him.

I ask him how many criminals carry around a glock in a duty holster. He said " Many, you would be surprised! " I said " I don't believe that "
I stopped you because you look like a police officer, wearing a duty holster , with a sidearm like that. All police officers are required to carry their credentials, and when you told me you weren't one, I wanted to make sure you were legally carrying, and not impersonating an officer, because you look like one.

I said " Can I have your name and badge number? " He said yes, after they return my request. He then proceeds to lecture me further, and then I ask for his supervisor. He said he didn't have one with him. I then take out my phone and tell him he will be audio and video recorded at this point. He said that is fine.

The all-clear comes back, I am a law abiding citizen, yay! He gives the LTCH back, but wanted to talk to me ( lecture further about my not giving him my DL, looking like a cop ), he wouldn't give me his badge number or name until after he was done. Well, I got tired of standing there so I asked if I am being detained again. He says no, and I said " Have a good day officer " turned my back to him mid-sentence and walked to my car.

I DO NOT look like a cop, I am wearing slacks and a collared shirt, with a holster and mag pouch. No handcuffs, no badge, nothing. I never claimed to be a cop to anyone in the restaurant, and told him I was NOT one when he asked. I also drive a Sentra!

How do so many of you go years without ever being detained, yet I get detained on my first week of carrying! Maybe he is right, and a serpa level 3 and a gen 4 G21 is a bad choice to carry if you are not a cop? I OCed my revolver around IWB without any LEO ever batting an eye.

I do not want to CC a Glock 21, and since I am OCing, I would like a retention holster, so I picked the serpa level 3. The other day a Noblesville officer in uniform, with a patrol car outside was standing behind me in line, and he didn't say a word to me. I don't see why this officer who refused to ID himself, refused to get me a supervisor, and refused to believe that I don't have to give my my DL if I am not driving a car at the moment, was so concerned for everyone's safety when I was doing nothing wrong. He wasn't even in a patrol vehicle, just a SUV, looked like his personal SUV, and he was not even in uniform, nor could I see any gun or badge. If he didn't have a radio, I would think he was the one impersonating an officer!

If things were so traumatic for you why didn't you just punch him or something? Good grief!! While your LTCH check might not have been done the ideal way it isn't the end of the flipping world. IMO your snippy and defiant type remarks only makes things worse. That was not the place to be addressing your concerns or making a scene. Wow I hope you are never in a real situation based on how this went down. Show the guy your pink slip and your ID and be done with it.

FWIW- The problem with a Indiana LTCH is the no picture part. Anyone can print out a fake and it is done quite commonly.