LTCH Suspended: Administrative Law hearing at the ISP

[CathyInBlue]

Not yet. After the criminal phase comes the civil phase. Guy gets to decide when to pony up the details.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So why did you not get a jury trial?

Indiana Rule of Criminal Procedure 22, aka "gotta ask for one on a misdemeanor":

Rule 22. Trial by Jury in Misdemeanor Cases: Demand: Notice: Waiver

A defendant charged with a misdemeanor may demand trial by jury by filing a written demand therefor not later than ten (10) days before his first scheduled trial date. The failure of a defendant to demand a trial by jury as required by this rule shall constitute a waiver by him of trial by jury unless the defendant has not had at least fifteen (15) days advance notice of his scheduled trial date and of the consequences of his failure to demand a trial by jury.​

Indiana Rules of Criminal Procedure

 

[CathyInBlue]

I was clear to my attorney of my desire to have a jury trial. This was his decision overruling my desire.

 

[jedi]

I was clear to my attorney of my desire to have a jury trial. This was his decision overruling my desire.

did not know attys could do that.

 

[Bill B]

I was clear to my attorney of my desire to have a jury trial. This was his decision overruling my desire.

did not know attys could do that.

She means he explained the facts of life to her and she saw that playing within the system would be better for her. Are all .gov employees dense?

 

[pitbulld45]

Maybe you should fire him.

 

[CathyInBlue]

No. I meant it was entirely his decision. I showed up today expecting a jury trial. He decided independent of my desires to go with bench. But, I'm not remotely prepared to fire him at this point. If I'm acquitted, he comes up smelling like a legal genius.

 

[88GT]

No. I meant it was entirely his decision. I showed up today expecting a jury trial. He decided independent of my desires to go with bench. But, I'm not remotely prepared to fire him at this point. If I'm acquitted, he comes up smelling like a legal genius.

And if you're not? (heaven forbid). Maybe he's preparing grounds for an appeal.

I don't know how I'd handle such behavior though. I know that attorneys have the same basic fiduciary responsibilities that I do. And I know that the same blatant disregard for a client's wishes could, under certain circumstances, result in the permanent revocation of my license. It seems like a really dangerous step for him to have taken.

 

[daddymikey1975]

I was clear to my attorney of my desire to have a jury trial. This was his decision overruling my desire.

Maybe you should fire him.

No. I meant it was entirely his decision. I showed up today expecting a jury trial. He decided independent of my desires to go with bench. But, I'm not remotely prepared to fire him at this point. If I'm acquitted, he comes up smelling like a legal genius.

And if you're not? (heaven forbid). Maybe he's preparing grounds for an appeal.

I don't know how I'd handle such behavior though. I know that attorneys have the same basic fiduciary responsibilities that I do. And I know that the same blatant disregard for a client's wishes could, under certain circumstances, result in the permanent revocation of my license. It seems like a really dangerous step for him to have taken.

I took my Ex to court several years ago. I was living in Illinois at the time, and hired an attorney from this area. After a year and a half of back and forth nonsense, and almost $3k in fees paid (not even going to court yet) we reached a point where I told my attorney "if she doesn't agree to such and such, then I want my day in court and let the judge decide". I'm not a 'know it all' when it comes to child support/visitation laws but i've read every word of them in intricate detail and was VERY aware of what my rights were and have exercised them in the past and was victorious. I knew who the judge was going to be and his stance on 'things'.. My attorney called me one day and said "she signed the papers we faxed, as you wanted them drafted so we're good. We just need you to come sign them and we can get this filed and done with"

I showed up and read the pages they wanted me to sign. Her signature page was on top, signed. The rest of the pages were in wrong order. After putting everything in order, I noticed the ONE clause in question had the word 'not' inserted in a place that would negate my wishes. I brought this to the attention of my attorney and he seemed surprised... He said "maybe we had 2 drafts in the computer and sent them the wrong one".. I said send her the correct one, get it signed or get me a court date. He attempted to convince me that a day in court would be unfavorable given the circumstances. I replied with "I'm paying you for your ADVICE and OPINION.. more importantly, you work for ME.. If I want something a certain way, it's your job to make it so, or let the judge decide if it should be. If you can't or don't want to do that, withdraw from my case, you're fired and I'm not paying you the $1k I still owe. If you would like to collect the last $1k, I'll present all of this information to the BAR assoc and see what they think."

He withdrew. I represented myself on our day in court. The judge saw things my way.

I know that we all love Guy, but if you want something, it's your attorney's job to explain why it might not be a good idea, but ultimately, if it's your dime, he works for you.

I hope this decision won't come back to haunt you Cathy. Good luck in your endeavor.

 

[Rookie]

She has two attorneys...

 

[Bunnykid68]

She has two attorneys...

Pay attention Roadie. She has an attorney defending her against the charges brought against her and when that is settled I believe Guy will be stepping in with his specialty.

 

[cobber]

And if you're not? (heaven forbid). Maybe he's preparing grounds for an appeal.

Not an appeal. Either a malpractice suit, or a petition for Post Conviction Relief (ineffective assistance). First gets you $$$, second gets you a new shot at a jury trial.

However, if this was an administrative hearing, there is no right to a jury (would apply only to civil and criminal law), since they don't have administrative juries. Also the criminal rule would not apply in administrative law.

 

[Rookie]

I think the person above me was confused. I, as a moderator, am never confused. Or wrong.

 

[bigus_D]

Good luck Cathy! Tagged to follow.

 

[Glockowner]

Lots of times you are better off with a bench trial if it is a question of the law. Keep in mind your "peers" aren't very bright. You may have gotten a couple anti-gun folks on the panel that would assume you are guilty.

Good luck.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ok, are we talking about a criminal trial or the administrative hearing?

There is no jury in an admin hearing.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Ok, are we talking about a criminal trial or the administrative hearing?

There is no jury in an admin hearing.

I think her admin hearing got rescheduled to after the trial. I think that info is in this thread somewhere but do not recall for sure.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Perhaps I should have started a separate thread for this criminal phase. This thread was started because the ISP demanded my administrative hearing take place before my criminal trial, whether they realized it or not. This update was relative to my criminal trial which just took place yesterday. And yes, this is not Guy Relford I'm relying on ATM. First, criminal phase, then administrative (to get LTCH back) and civil (to be made whole and fix the problems in the THPD my case has uncovered) phases, which can run concurrently.

Certainly, this is a matter of law. The prosecutor trotted out a debunked court case in closing, which really floored me. I'm sure I had a big, confused grin on my face when he did that. My attorney started explaining his take on why that case didn't apply and I handed him the PL/IC for exactly why that case didn't apply. My attorney handed that PL/IC to the judge who took it under advisement. I had two more pieces of case law which would have further eviscerated the prosecution's argument, but my attorney never asked for those, even though I'd given them to him to review for my case.

If the judge decides my case based on the law we gave her, there is still a predominance in my favour, but if she decides against me, criminally, it would surely be because of the two cases I did not get a chance to present to the judge.

Kirk, is it proper for the defense to submit additional case law for the judge's consideration (copies to the prosecution, obviously), after the judge has taken the case and dismissed all parties?

 

[88GT]

I took my Ex to court several years ago. I was living in Illinois at the time, and hired an attorney from this area. After a year and a half of back and forth nonsense, and almost $3k in fees paid (not even going to court yet) we reached a point where I told my attorney "if she doesn't agree to such and such, then I want my day in court and let the judge decide". I'm not a 'know it all' when it comes to child support/visitation laws but i've read every word of them in intricate detail and was VERY aware of what my rights were and have exercised them in the past and was victorious. I knew who the judge was going to be and his stance on 'things'.. My attorney called me one day and said "she signed the papers we faxed, as you wanted them drafted so we're good. We just need you to come sign them and we can get this filed and done with"

I showed up and read the pages they wanted me to sign. Her signature page was on top, signed. The rest of the pages were in wrong order. After putting everything in order, I noticed the ONE clause in question had the word 'not' inserted in a place that would negate my wishes. I brought this to the attention of my attorney and he seemed surprised... He said "maybe we had 2 drafts in the computer and sent them the wrong one".. I said send her the correct one, get it signed or get me a court date. He attempted to convince me that a day in court would be unfavorable given the circumstances. I replied with "I'm paying you for your ADVICE and OPINION.. more importantly, you work for ME.. If I want something a certain way, it's your job to make it so, or let the judge decide if it should be. If you can't or don't want to do that, withdraw from my case, you're fired and I'm not paying you the $1k I still owe. If you would like to collect the last $1k, I'll present all of this information to the BAR assoc and see what they think."

He withdrew. I represented myself on our day in court. The judge saw things my way.

I know that we all love Guy, but if you want something, it's your attorney's job to explain why it might not be a good idea, but ultimately, if it's your dime, he works for you.

I hope this decision won't come back to haunt you Cathy. Good luck in your endeavor.

Divorce attorneys are required to take a course on how to string it along to maximize billable hours. I'm not surprised at your experience. I also know that in my field, people have been punished for far less.

 

[88GT]

Not an appeal. Either a malpractice suit, or a petition for Post Conviction Relief (ineffective assistance). First gets you $$$, second gets you a new shot at a jury trial.

However, if this was an administrative hearing, there is no right to a jury (would apply only to civil and criminal law), since they don't have administrative juries. Also the criminal rule would not apply in administrative law.

Holy crap, it was a figure of speech and play on words given that in defying her wishes and violating his fiduciary responsibilities, he might also have been helping her out.