Did Holder have a point?

[dross]

If you deem certain words slurs, people will just use different ones. Here's an example, although not a very good one. "Man, there's too many black people here, lets get out of here." Change that to "it's awfully dark in here, lets get out of here." The thought is the same but you changed the wording to sound "pc".

Here is my thought. Someone can make a generalization about me based on my race, color, gender or whatever and I don't get bothered by it if it isn't true. Anyone remember "White Men Can't Jump"? Yeah, I can't jump but is that a racist thing to get bothered about? The only two things you can call me that will get under my skin is a liar and a thief. I guard my integrity for closely. Call me fat. Yes, I'm overweight. Call me short. Yes, I'm not very tall. Call me a cracker. I'm not a dried up piece of bread so I don't get offended. I only get offended by that because of the hypocrisy of the minorities out there that want to cry racism every chance they get.

Comments like "oh he's black so he can get away with it" aren't racist. They are just stating the fact of what a double standard we have today.

I agree with everything you wrote.

I can't tell from your post whether you agree or disagree that some statements should be called out?

 

[dross]

I can't even figure out what is being argued about. OK, I'll just watch, too.

I'm arguing that we have a moral obligation to speak up and take a stand in the face of racist statements.

As far as I can tell, most of the other posters are arguing that the world is too PC, and people call simple disagreements racist, and that there's a double standard depending on if you're a minority or not, all of which I agree with.

What I can't get anyone to answer is A) Is there anything that's so far out of line it shouldn't be said, and B) Do we have a moral obligation to stand up and disagree with something we think is wrong.

 

[hornadylnl]

I can't tell from your post whether you agree or disagree that some statements should be called out?

Sometimes I call people out on it, sometimes I don't. I heard my coordinator use the n word last night. I guess this phrase explains everything. YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!!

People who are racists or use slurs can only hold power over you if you let them. If someone calls you a slur for no reason and then you get bent out of shape about it and cause a scene, you'll only confirm that guys opinion of you, whether his opinion is right or not.

One thread that I saw people get fired up over was where a cop referred to Obama as a half breed. Was the term warranted? No. But substitute half breed with mf'er, commie, or whatever you like, what's the difference? They all show contempt for him. This cop was accused of enforcing sundown laws and the integrity of the whole city he represents was brought into question because he used a term that was true. Again, I wouldn't use that term to describe Obama just because it gives people a reason to yell racism or whatever.

I used to debate illegal immigration with a Mexican guy that I worked with all the time. Every time I had him backed into the corner and was winning the argument, he'd call me a racist. 90% of the time someone wants to call someone racist, it's because they don't have a leg to stand on in a discussion.

 

[Colt556]

I'm pissed about the whole Holder statement for a very simple reason. Holder is a member of a race that is allowed to BE RACIST and not be called racist. Black music, television and literature is riddled with racist words and thoughts. Blacks use the dreaded "N" word as if it's their own invention and they are proud of it. Black sitcoms and other television shows make fun of white, Asian and Hispanic people at length without criticism. Black comedians like Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy talk about niggers, Ho's, sluts, bitches and make fun of whites and other races and we all laugh. But when a white comedian like Andrew Dice Clay says the exact same things... OMG!!! He is run out of town as a racist, sexist and a bigot. Would you rather be a black man stranded in Carmel or a white man stranded at 16th and College after dark? I know I'm pretty simplistic in my thinking on this but I grew up at 23rd and Park and I was on the opposite side of racism for many years. I was called everything but white and learned to fight as a means of self preservation. I'm sick of the PC crap that certain ppl throw around. Most of those ppl have never set foot in the real world. One race in this country is allowed to be racist, and is applauded for it by some, while others are ostracized if they even mention a so called racist term. Just my $.02

As for the OPs question. If you feel offended by someone tell them. If people have the right to tell others that they are offended by their remarks it should be done across the board, which will never happen in this country.

 

[USMC_0311]

I posted this before but had dig it up for this.

Am I a racist? I don't think so but some of you would think that. I don't care. Tired of being "PC".

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...bama_found_at_kentucky_campus.html#post141582

 

[dross]

Sometimes I call people out on it, sometimes I don't. I heard my coordinator use the n word last night. I guess this phrase explains everything. YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!!

People who are racists or use slurs can only hold power over you if you let them. If someone calls you a slur for no reason and then you get bent out of shape about it and cause a scene, you'll only confirm that guys opinion of you, whether his opinion is right or not.

One thread that I saw people get fired up over was where a cop referred to Obama as a half breed. Was the term warranted? No. But substitute half breed with mf'er, commie, or whatever you like, what's the difference? They all show contempt for him. This cop was accused of enforcing sundown laws and the integrity of the whole city he represents was brought into question because he used a term that was true. Again, I wouldn't use that term to describe Obama just because it gives people a reason to yell racism or whatever.

I used to debate illegal immigration with a Mexican guy that I worked with all the time. Every time I had him backed into the corner and was winning the argument, he'd call me a racist. 90% of the time someone wants to call someone racist, it's because they don't have a leg to stand on in a discussion.

No, you can't fix stupid, but when stupid turns ugly, you can point it out.

The half-breed comment is a great point. If I call him a MF, it doesn't mean anything other than I don't like him. When I call him a communist, it has a precise meaning, and it refers to a belief that he has chosen. By calling him a half-breed, you attack the accident of his birth - he had no choice in his parents - and you imply that there's something inherently wrong with being of mixed race. Half-breed has been a derogatory term for a long time. So has "poopie-head". Poopie-head, or MF, have no particular weight behind them. But when you call him a half-breed, you imply that what you don't like about him stems from something not within his control, but from his mixed parentage. And at the same time, you imply that same thing may be wrong with others who share his "half-breed" status.

 

[dross]

I'm pissed about the whole Holder statement for a very simple reason. Holder is a member of a race that is allowed to BE RACIST and not be called racist. Black music, television and literature is riddled with racist words and thoughts. Blacks use the dreaded "N" word as if it's their own invention and they are proud of it. Black sitcoms and other television shows make fun of white, Asian and Hispanic people at length without criticism. Black comedians like Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy talk about niggers, Ho's, sluts, bitches and make fun of whites and other races and we all laugh. But when a white comedian like Andrew Dice Clay says the exact same things... OMG!!! He is run out of town as a racist, sexist and a bigot. Would you rather be a black man stranded in Carmel or a white man stranded at 16th and College after dark? I know I'm pretty simplistic in my thinking on this but I grew up at 23rd and Park and I was on the opposite side of racism for many years. I was called everything but white and learned to fight as a means of self preservation. I'm sick of the PC crap that certain ppl throw around. Most of those ppl have never set foot in the real world. One race in this country is allowed to be racist, and is applauded for it by some, while others are ostracized if they even mention a so called racist term. Just my $.02

As for the OPs question. If you feel offended by someone tell them. If people have the right to tell others that they are offended by their remarks it should be done across the board, which will never happen in this country.

I agree with your post.

 

[dross]

I posted this before but had dig it up for this.

Am I a racist? I don't think so but some of you would think that. I don't care. Tired of being "PC".

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...bama_found_at_kentucky_campus.html#post141582

In my opinion, nothing in your link was racist. The only exceptions I take to that post is that it's not completely clear that it's addressed to those who hold the views rather than the races themselves. I also don't really get the "white pride" thing. I'm not proud to be white. I suppose I take some pride in my Scottish background, or at least some interest in it. But not in being "white" per se. To me, that doesn't say much of anything about me at all.

 

[4sarge]

I don't care for or promote "PC speak". I don't consider challenging a statement on a discussion forum to be "bickering."

Perhaps you are the one who is "sensitive."

But YOU chose to Bicker with another member in my thread that had nothing to do with Race and as a result, my thread was closed. All I'm asking is take your bickering outside or with PM's and leave legitimate threads alone for open discussion. My threads and
your soapbox are Not compatible

 

[joslar15]

I'm arguing that we have a moral obligation to speak up and take a stand in the face of racist statements.

As far as I can tell, most of the other posters are arguing that the world is too PC, and people call simple disagreements racist, and that there's a double standard depending on if you're a minority or not, all of which I agree with.

What I can't get anyone to answer is A) Is there anything that's so far out of line it shouldn't be said, and B) Do we have a moral obligation to stand up and disagree with something we think is wrong.

This is what's great about living in the United States of America, currently we still have the right of free expression. Every citizen is free to speak their opinion, whether it is shared by many or disapproved of by all. With this in mind, my answer to your question A is no. There is nothing that shouldn't be said, regardless of how far out of line others may judge it to be. There may certainly be consequences involved, such as in this case with you, challenging them. However, free speech is something that from the inception of this nation, has been defended with countless lives.

Is it a moral obligation to stand up and disagree with something we think is wrong? I wouldn't necessarily classify it as an "obligation", in the sense that it is something that every person needs to address at every instance. I believe that as in many things, it is a matter of degree and whether or not your challenge will cause a shift in attitude. For you, it seems as this is your issue and where you choose to take your stand. I say good for you! Take your stand and try to make a difference. For others, though, there are other issues which take precedence.

Peace

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

What I can't get anyone to answer is A) Is there anything that's so far out of line it shouldn't be said, and B) Do we have a moral obligation to stand up and disagree with something we think is wrong.

I'll take the Pepsi Challenge

Dross, I've spent the past 7 years in the Army, the last 3.5 as an NCO. The moral courage point makes sense to me. If you see BS, call it for what it is. However, I think it does work both ways, and I do believe that there is a double standard in this country when it comes to race. If I'm white and I'm a dirtbag, then I can be fairly labeled as a dirtbag, however, if I'm black and a dirtbag, I can cry "racist" and the accuser is now the guilty party. Unfortunately, perception is reality.

Is there anything that is so far out of line that it shouldn't be said? I don't think so, but I do believe some are lazy and choose race as a way to make their point and escalate their argument. Example - do I dislike the President because he's black? No, I dislike him because I've watched Chicago politics while growing up in NWI and I don't believe he has the country's best interests at heart. But if I want to purely **** people off and get a sound bite for the media, I'll say "he's just another ****** in goverment housing".
*ducks and looks for Jesse Jackson to come out of left field protesting*

Do I truly believe that? No. Did it get a few people redlining? Probably.

Now, I won't say that I'm above telling or laughing at tasteless jokes. But I know my audience when I do. What's appropriate in my buddy's garage while drinking beer is not appropriate at my grandmother's dinner table. Just as what's appropriate on INGO isn't appropriate on MDShooters and vice versa.

I can understand being tired of catering to a increasing PC world, and God knows I'm tired of it myself. But one thing to keep in mind when posting here is that INGO is subject to search engines and the mods don't want us perceived as a bunch of racist gun-toting rednecks. It doesn't do the 2A community any good, nor does it cast the Hoosier state in a favorable light. We all know better, but the guy who comes across the site via Google doesn't. Again, perception is reality.

Probably didn't really answer your questions, but it's my

 

[hornadylnl]

I worked with a guy who had brown pride tatooed on the backs of his forearms. If I had a white pride tatoo, I'd be a racist. It's the double standard that I find rediculous. If I call someone a half breed on an internet forum, how do I have any power to affect another member here? I'm not in a position to do harm to that person. I don't sign their paycheck, I'm not denying them a job because of their heritage, etc. I'm short and I was born with that in my blood. So do I have an equal right to be offended because someone calls me shorty? I can't help my height any more than a mixed race individual can his heritage?

If people would learn to laugh off and ignore most of this perceived racism, it would die off as there wouldn't be any purpose in it. I can only hold power over you if you choose to let me.

 

[dross]

But YOU chose to Bicker with another member in my thread that had nothing to do with Race and as a result, my thread was closed. All I'm asking is take your bickering outside or with PM's and leave legitimate threads alone for open discussion. My threads and
your soapbox are Not compatible

It became about race when someone used a slur. I intend to call out racial slurs where I find them. I'm sorry your post was closed - I sent a PM to the moderator and asked him not to do that.

Now, I've addressed your points. In your opinion, is anything too far out to be said without being condemned, or is it the criticism of it that's the real problem in your mind? Are you saying that no matter what someone says I shouldn't ever call them out on it if it doesn't have to do with the original thread? If that were the case, there'd be a whole lot of closed threads on this site.

 

[Rookie]

I'm arguing that we have a moral obligation to speak up and take a stand in the face of racist statements.

As far as I can tell, most of the other posters are arguing that the world is too PC, and people call simple disagreements racist, and that there's a double standard depending on if you're a minority or not, all of which I agree with.

What I can't get anyone to answer is A) Is there anything that's so far out of line it shouldn't be said, and B) Do we have a moral obligation to stand up and disagree with something we think is wrong.

Yes, there are things that should be too far out of line. Unfortunately, you will never get people to agree on a set standard. Does that make it right? No.

You have a moral obligation to lead by example. Correcting every statement that you feel is wrong will not solve anything. There have been times where I have felt that I was obligated to step in and correct someone, and the only thing it has done is cause another argument. You and I will not change anyone while we are sitting in our chair and typing on a computer. If you feel something is wrong, don't be guilty of coming anywhere close to being guilty also.

 

[4sarge]

It became about race when someone used a slur. I intend to call out racial slurs where I find them. I'm sorry your post was closed - I sent a PM to the moderator and asked him not to do that.

Now, I've addressed your points. In your opinion, is anything too far out to be said without being condemned, or is it the criticism of it that's the real problem in your mind? Are you saying that no matter what someone says I shouldn't ever call them out on it if it doesn't have to do with the original thread? If that were the case, there'd be a whole lot of closed threads on this site.

PM or E-Mail them instead of BICKERING in a legitimate thread that had nothing to do with Race, Slurs or Heritage. Believe me, your chastising isn't going to change the mind of the poster if he/she are predisposed in their thoughts

 

[USMC_0311]

In my opinion, nothing in your link was racist. The only exceptions I take to that post is that it's not completely clear that it's addressed to those who hold the views rather than the races themselves. I also don't really get the "white pride" thing. I'm not proud to be white. I suppose I take some pride in my Scottish background, or at least some interest in it. But not in being "white" per se. To me, that doesn't say much of anything about me at all.

I am just as proud being white as any black man is being black. Racist no but bitter yes. I think we have had so much PC crap shoved at us a lot of people are just tired of it. This PC trend could backfire and cause even more racial disapairity.

my thread was closed.

Sorry to hear that, I thought we had this taken care of.

 

[jennybird]

What I can't get anyone to answer is A) Is there anything that's so far out of line it shouldn't be said, and B) Do we have a moral obligation to stand up and disagree with something we think is wrong.

A. Yes, but as Rookie just stated, you will never get people to agree on a set standard.

B. No. You have the right to stand up for your morals, but you are not obligated. You are however, obligated to pay taxes.

Sorry I can't respond in more depth here, but I am at work and am obligated to do work stuff.

By the way, thank you for serving our country. I really do appreciate that.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

What I can't get anyone to answer is A) Is there anything that's so far out of line it shouldn't be said, and B) Do we have a moral obligation to stand up and disagree with something we think is wrong.

A) I think there are somethings that are so far out of line. ie Any mention of gun control outside of a safe handling discussion or training. But I'm quite sure that there are people out there who disagree with that.

B) As has been stated before you have the right not necessarily the obligation.

I have in the past and will probably in the future use racial slurs along with sexist one. But lets for instance I call a woman a b!t(h I'm not referring to the entire sex that just that one particular person. Same with the n word I've know quite a few blacks unfortunatly I've also had the displeasure to meet some n*****. By using that word am I racist? I don't consider myself so, I use it to describe stereotypical behavior. Not to stereotype a race. I've also used slurs to describe people of my own race ie cracker or hillbilly or what is currently popular in my area hilljack. Do I think anyone who lives in a rural area and drives and old truck is one? No but there are some who live up to the stereotype.

 

[dross]

A) I think there are somethings that are so far out of line. ie Any mention of gun control outside of a safe handling discussion or training. But I'm quite sure that there are people out there who disagree with that.

B) As has been stated before you have the right not necessarily the obligation.

I have in the past and will probably in the future use racial slurs along with sexist one. But lets for instance I call a woman a b!t(h I'm not referring to the entire sex that just that one particular person. Same with the n word I've know quite a few blacks unfortunatly I've also had the displeasure to meet some niggers. By using that word am I racist? I don't consider myself so, I use it to describe stereotypical behavior. Not to stereotype a race. I've also used slurs to describe people of my own race ie cracker or hillbilly or what is currently popular in my area hilljack. Do I think anyone who lives in a rural area and drives and old truck is one? No but there are some who live up to the stereotype.

If you meet a black person with some negative characteristics, why would you call them a ******? Why not an *******, or a prick, or some other name that particularly identified their individual behavior? When you use the "N" word , a powerful word associated with some bad history and that applies to people of a particular skin color, you must choose that word for a reason. What does their race have to do with their behavior?

 

[dross]

I am just as proud being white as any black man is being black. Racist no but bitter yes. I think we have had so much PC crap shoved at us a lot of people are just tired of it. This PC trend could backfire and cause even more racial disapairity.

What is it about being white that you're proud of? This question isn't a challenge, I'm really interested in your answer. What is it about having white skin that makes you proud?