When I applied for my LTCH...

[Sanguine Samurai]

Right around the time I applied for my LTCH I happened to find INGO. Since then I have realized to OC or not to OC is the question, or a hot topic rather. I am open to the idea of open carry. I have never tried it. The reason why is the topic of this thread.

I filled out my LTCH form on a Monday and was asked to come back that Wednesday to finish things up as they (local P.D.) does not process handgun licenses on Mondays for some odd reason. So, I came back on Wednesday. I was finger printed, paid the proverbial man, and was asked to speak with the deputy (not sure of his correct title) cheif about my LTCH. On a side note. It was eerie being finger printed and escorted through the police station as I have never been in trouble with the law. Never had a traffic violation for that matter. Back to the subject. I was lead to his office. We greeted each other and took our seats. He began to interview me more or less. He asked me why I had applied for a handgun license (I told him for self defense), and what kind of pistol I had. He then told me his "expectations". He told me the license was for concealed carry and that concealed means concealed. He told me if I was caught open carrying I would be given a warning, and on the second offence he/they (the police) would suspend my license. He finished up, I shook his hand, and left strait for the post office to mail the rest of my application to the Indiana state police.

I know what he told me does not reflect Indiana state law. I have in fact had many an argument with my friends on the legality of open carrying. All of which were under the impression OC was illegal.

I read threads on INGO about people who OC all the time and would like to partake on occasion, but I quite frankly don't have the gonads to for fear of losing my LTCH. I do not mean for this thread to slander this particular individual (that is why I left out my location), or any LEO. I have debated whether or not to post this for a while now. I would just like to exercise my rights to the fullest without fear of harassment. I'm curious what everyone’s opinion is on the matter.
Thanks for reading and posting!

 

[Vasili]

Do what you feel you must and should.

If they do try to bust your balls, be sure you have the energy and money to fight it in court, as he's incorrect on that point, but make sure you challenge his ignorance, else it will never change.

 

[IndySSD]

First of all welcome to the world of personal defense carry.

Do not forget that your town may have a local ordinance forbidding open carry vs. concealed carry. Your License To Carry Handgun does not delineate between OC and CC so be sure to check local town ordinances.

Here are a couple points you may want to consider as you begin your "carry" life.

After nearly a decade of carrying legally...... both OC and CC I prefer to be an alert but anonymous face in a crowd as opposed to the guy everyone is staring at because of the piece on my hip. (And the one they don't know about that is stashed elsewhere on my person ). Your best advantage in a hostile situation in public is often the element of surprise, due to this I carry concealed.

I personally carry for the defense of myself and my family and if needed, the defense of violent crime victims in my nearby vicinity.

If someone comes up and holds a gun or knife up in front of me from a few feet away and asks for my cash... guess what, I'm going to give them my cash and call 911 when it is safe. That will cost me far less than a defense attorney will cost to prove that I feared for my life and that's why I pumped 7-15 rounds of .40 or .45 caliber lead into the suspect.

That being said, the first time someone touches me in a violent manner while wielding a weapon or approaches with a weapon in a threatening manner and doesn't seem to be stopping, they will be going down. Period, no questions asked, no yelling STOP! I will draw, aim, fire and continue firing until there is no more threat to my own or families safety and wellbeing.

Make absolutely sure you are resigned to the above statement. I grew up hunting and overcame my "hesitation" on taking life over two decades ago. Please make sure you have done the same and are well practiced not only with shooting your firearm but in handling, presenting safely from holster and reloading before carrying a firearm in public because if you have not, you are likely to become a liability to yourself or others during a SHTF moment in public.

SafeShooting

 

[Bill of Rights]

Wow. OK, a few points to address here.

1) contact an attorney. This may or may not fit the legal definition of intimidation, but one way or the other, it is wrong and I believe it to be in violation of state law insofar as his responsibilities.

2) contact ISP. Let them know that the LEO in question (by name, if possible) made the statements to you that he did and that you consider it a threat. Get the name of the person to whom you speak. (do this only after talking to the attorney, and only with his/her advice to do so.)

3) Check your local laws yourself. Read them, know them, and be able to quote them verbatim. If you are stopped and he/they try to arrest you, let them. Cooperate, while stating your objection to their action. Consider it a financial opportunity. (again, with your attorney's advice and counsel.)

4) Carry. Your right to protect yourself and your family are, IMHO, more important than legal penalties. You have to be alive to be arrested. Note that the local PD does not and cannot revoke your LTCH. They can recommend, but the bigger paper trail and the bigger "name" you've made for yourself, the harder it will be for them to prove that they're not simply being vindictive.

Note that I am not a lawyer. I don't play one on TV, and I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night. The only legal advice I'm giving you is to contact a licensed attorney. The remainder is personal thoughts.

Good luck and keep us informed, as long as your attorney doesn't tell you not to. The goal, IMHO, is to prevent this LEO from intimidating others out of exercising their rights as THEY see fit.

Blessings,
Bill

Right around the time I applied for my LTCH I happened to find INGO. Since then I have realized to OC or not to OC is the question, or a hot topic rather. I am open to the idea of open carry. I have never tried it. The reason why is the topic of this thread.

I filled out my LTCH form on a Monday and was asked to come back that Wednesday to finish things up as they (local P.D.) does not process handgun licenses on Mondays for some odd reason. So, I came back on Wednesday. I was finger printed, paid the proverbial man, and was asked to speak with the deputy (not sure of his correct title) cheif about my LTCH. On a side note. It was eerie being finger printed and escorted through the police station as I have never been in trouble with the law. Never had a traffic violation for that matter. Back to the subject. I was lead to his office. We greeted each other and took our seats. He began to interview me more or less. He asked me why I had applied for a handgun license (I told him for self defense), and what kind of pistol I had. He then told me his "expectations". He told me the license was for concealed carry and that concealed means concealed. He told me if I was caught open carrying I would be given a warning, and on the second offence he/they (the police) would suspend my license. He finished up, I shook his hand, and left strait for the post office to mail the rest of my application to the Indiana state police.

I know what he told me does not reflect Indiana state law. I have in fact had many an argument with my friends on the legality of open carrying. All of which were under the impression OC was illegal.

I read threads on INGO about people who OC all the time and would like to partake on occasion, but I quite frankly don't have the gonads to for fear of losing my LTCH. I do not mean for this thread to slander this particular individual (that is why I left out my location), or any LEO. I have debated whether or not to post this for a while now. I would just like to exercise my rights to the fullest without fear of harassment. I'm curious what everyone’s opinion is on the matter.
Thanks for reading and posting!

 

[Vince49]

Speedway is the only city in Indiana that has a ordinance covering the carrying of a handgun and it prohibits concealed carry. It is the only city or town with such an ordinance in Indiana because it was on the books prior to 1994 and was grandfathered in. No other county or municipality can pass such an ordinance now as it is specifically prohibited by state law. The Indiana Codes which can be found on in.gov Indiana State Police website govern the carrying of a handgun in Indiana. Municipalities can restrict where a firearm can be carried however such as the Indianapolis ban on guns in city parks.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

SS, if you would like to try OC'ing, try it one day with a second individual that OC's on a regular basis. It relieves a bit of the "loner" feeling.

If you don't wish to try OC'ing, that's fine, too. Carry, and carry safely.

BTW, BoR gave you some great advice IMO.

 

[Scutter01]

Wow. Sure would be nice if local police chiefs didn't try to impose their own OPINIONS to create laws where none exist.

 

[ATM]

...He told me the license was for concealed carry and that concealed means concealed. He told me if I was caught open carrying I would be given a warning, and on the second offence he/they (the police) would suspend my license.

...I do not mean for this thread to slander this particular individual (that is why I left out my location), or any LEO.

Any person who is this wrong, especially in a position of authority, honestly deserves to be corrected.
Ignorance of the subject could be easily corrected privately via phone or email contact.
However, for willful deception and threats, which may be the case, I feel that one must be held accountable directly up their chain of command.

I hope you'll let us know the dept. so we can help stop this from happening to others.

I read threads on INGO about people who OC all the time and would like to partake on occasion, but I quite frankly don't have the gonads to for fear of losing my LTCH.

I would make a point to drive to your city and OC with you if that was your choice.

 

[rbrthenderson]

I was talking to a worker in my local gun shop and he told me he open carried in New Albany and had been cited for inciting a riot. I've only had my license since 5/18 but 2 ISP's have seen my openly carrying and a county sheriff and I've had no issues......yet.

 

[Mikeh82]

I was talking to a worker in my local gun shop and he told me he open carried in New Albany and had been cited for inciting a riot. I've only had my license since 5/18 but 2 ISP's have seen my openly carrying and a county sheriff and I've had no issues......yet.

I call bull.. I open carry quite a bit in New Albany and sometimes when doing so I am with a couple different NAPD officers.. New Albany has no such law that says you can not open carry..

Im also certain I could tell you the name of the worker and the gun shop you are referring to.. He likes to talk to hear himself talk.

 

[UltraRick]

I was talking to a worker in my local gun shop and he told me he open carried in New Albany and had been cited for inciting a riot. I've only had my license since 5/18 but 2 ISP's have seen my openly carrying and a county sheriff and I've had no issues......yet.

I only believe about 10% of what a gun store employee EVER says. Inciting a riot - I am calling BS on this, unless there are extinuating circumstances. I live in Georgetown, and have seen OC several places in New Albany. Most recently at Penn Station on State Street with 2 officers having lunch at the same time as the person OC'ing. The officer's noticed the OC person when he came in, then went back to eating their lunch. Not a word was said to him.

 

[trophyhunter]

Interesting situation for sure, and some solid advice has followed.
I experienced a situation decades ago as a young man at the age of 18 applying for my very first IN LTCH and aside from the State ISP paperwork and fingerprint process that has seen very little change over the years, what was then a small town department (Mishawaka, IN) had their own unique process of handling an application for a license to carry that included the required background check subject to IN law and some additional department "requirements" including a face to face with the Chief prior to him signing off and approving the application, an applicant written letter of intent and purpose for making the application and two letters of recommendation from business associates and one personal letter of recommendation from what they deemed "proper" persons.

I went down and paid my initial money to obtain the paperwork, and left with the paperwork to take home and fill out. After reviewing the IN statute code at the time, no where in what was then "LAW" did I see them having any legal means or obligation to require additional paperwork or references above and beyond the state ISP forms and the required criminal background check. In my minds eye then and now, I was born a free American man with my Constitutional rights, and it was an early life lesson regarding taxation (having to pay my hard earned money) in order to "legally" exercise my 2nd amendment rights under IN state law regarding lawfully carrying and the possession of a handgun.

I decided to poke the Bear and see where it went. I obtained a copy of the IN statutes at the time to send back in with the state ISP required paperwork, and sat down at an old typewriter and wrote a letter to the Chief expounding on the simple reason I was applying for the license. That was simply stated as this. "I am making the application for the sole purpose of being in compliance with required Indiana State Law with regard to lawfully carrying a handgun on my person or in my vehicle." I thanked him for his time and consideration in the matter, and respectfully declined any further intrusion to my rights and privacy by obtaining letters of recommendation to suit their needs at a local level and bid him a good day and ended it with "I will await your response" and returned that letter and the ISP paperwork via certified mail.

From the date of receipt of that letter I waited 30 days with no response, at which time I drafted another letter to the Chief, and CC'd the ISP firearms division, and the state AG's office. That letter stated that I certainly held respect for the time frame of due process, and that after an entire month's time had elapsed with no response I felt both my rights were being violated and my ability for legal compliance were being jeopardized by an unlawful policy and procedure instituted by a department that held no legal means or obligation to do so.

Two days after the date of receipt of that second letter I returned home after work to find a message on my machine from a front desk clerk asking me to please come in and complete the fingerprint card as my application for a LTCH had been approved and they would forward that "right away" when we completed that task. I never did get to meet the Chief, they certainly never made any contact in writing to address the matter and leave a paper trail, and in the end I got what was due to me and had my first and certainly not my last taste of what is at times required of us in order to legally exercise our rights.

Some years later I got to meet the man that replaced the Chief at the time I went through that, he was a neat guy that pushed a cruiser on that department for years and got elected to that position and was as down to earth as they come. We got to know each other pretty well on a personal level and I asked one day if they still made people jump through hoops in the application procedure. His response was, "Oh no, we dont do it like that anymore." I had since moved and bought a home in the county when I made his acquaintance and had undergone a renewal process that was simple and to the point at the county level.

I have no idea if standing my ground at such a young age and not having much experience into how things work in the real world had any influence on that departments policy and procedure in handling applications, but it sure didnt hurt, and I'll wager I wasnt the only one that played a part in exercising my rights in a legal manner to affect change where it was most certainly needed. Never let anything stand in the way of you legally exercising your rights...

 

[Comp]

What, you got an interview? I didn't even get that. The same guy that fingerprinted me marked it approved before I even wiped off the ink.

 

[Suprtek]

You've already gotten some good advice regarding OC/CC so adding to that is not necessary. However, I find it interesting that the LEO asked you what kind of gun you had as if it had some bearing on your LTCH. Now if this just came up in friendly conversation and you discussed it willingly, that's a different story. But if the LEO was demanding this information as part of some kind of interview, I think I would have told him it was none of his business. It's irrelevant anyway because it could change at any time with no requirement for you to report it. Just my .

 

[Sanguine Samurai]

It was more of a casual question. I told him it was a Beretta. He said the department used to issue Berettas and he liked them.

 

[AFA1CY]

Sorry if I missed it but what city was this?

 

[Sanguine Samurai]

I didn't say. I'm trying to see my options without drawing too much attention in my direction. I like to fly under the raidar whenever possible. I'm not usually the guy that pushes sensative issues. This one is just bugging me for some reason. Let's just say North East Indiana for now.

In response to Bill of Rights: This crap economy has hit me pretty hard as of late. Bills, bills, bills and no over time, so money is scarce. As soon as I can find the funds I will defenately ask the advice of a lawer.

In responce to Blue Tile Spook: I don't know anyone who OC's, let alone regularly. Like I said, all my friends thought is was illigal. I can hardly remember the last time I saw someone OC in my town. It was the better part of a decade ago. He was the propriator of a firworks business around the 4th of July. He was inside his store at the time. I'll probably CC most of the time anyway. I don't like the lack of a choice. I want to CC because I want to. Not because I have to. It would be nice to OC for special occations without a big fuss. Might be too much to ask. There are a lot of cops here for not so big of a town. The chances I will encounter a/many LEO(s) the day I happen to decide to bite the bullet and OC is very high. This is usually a quiet town (probably due to all the police. not such a bad thing most of the time.). So a MWAG report would deffenately draw officers in like a shark chumming. It's not uncommon to see two or three cruisers for a simple traffic stop so I could only imagine.

 

[ATM]

I hope you'll let us know the dept. so we can help stop this from happening to others.

Just reiterating to assure you that others could get this correction rolling without your involvement or drawing any unwanted attention to yourself.

No need to protect this error or the false agenda being pushed onto carriers.

Just a department name...

 

[00BlasterResto]

I went down to Mishawaka when I turned 21 "2 years ago yesterday". Paid the $50 to a very nice lady behind the counter, who gave me the papers I needed and a reciept. Filled them out at home and went back, They called an officer down to fingerprint me and my girlfreind. I don't think he was convinced that we needed LTCH's and grumbled about being super loose with our fingers, but overall he was fairly polite and we had it overwith in no time.
They said come back in 2 weeks, but I should have checked sooner. Mine was at the very bottom of a goodsize pile after the 2 weeks.
-
I could see asking about what firearms you have etc. in passing, but the whole bit about open carry sounds pretty out of line to me!

 

[buffalo-springfield40]

well..lets call it what it is..POLICE WILL LIE!!!!......they know the laws...damn, the law is their jobs......just like politicians they will bend the truth till it hits ya in the back of your butt..iv'e been stopped many times for numerous reasons...from handlebar height on my harley to OC'ing...not one LEO has ever told me the same story twice..they'll make crap up and threaten to either write ya a ticket or pull your LTCH...so the chief that took you in the back and had ya shaking in your boots..knew he was lying..he was just hoping you didn't know he was lying....just remember...if ya don't stand for something..you'll fall for anything....