Any USPSA production GMs/Ms that run training classes near IN/IL/KY/OH?

[Friction]

As the title states, I'm looking for a training venue that is USPSA focused with an instructor that holds a M/GM classificatio in USPSA production. Nothing against other venues, I'm just looking to improve in very specific areas of production class shooting and would like to try and work with an instructor who has excelled in that discipline.

 

[CB45]

As the title states, I'm looking for a training venue that is USPSA focused with an instructor that holds a M/GM classificatio in USPSA production. Nothing against other venues, I'm just looking to improve in very specific areas of production class shooting and would like to try and work with an instructor who has excelled in that discipline.

I think Rob377 is going to co-host a class soon at ACC.

 

[riverman67]

Coach has classes and private instruction available. He does some of it at Riley Conservation club.

 

[riverman67]

SV40sw45 Does some training at South Central,near freetown.
I believe there is a thread in this forum about it.
Training with a Grandmaster

 

[mongo404]

Rob and I will be doing a class April 26 at ACC. Details to be posted on here soon. This will be a 6-8 hr class

 

[Jackson]

Serious question: Would a class with a Production GM/M be significantly different than another GM? I know the strategies are a little different with reloads and whatnot, but overall the game is the same.

 

[VERT]

SV40sw45 Does some training at South Central,near freetown.
I believe there is a thread in this forum about it.
Training with a Grandmaster

This. Go see Max. I am not sure what division he made GrandMaster but Max will get you squared away with whatever gun you want to run.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/330327-hand-gun-traing-grand-master.html

 

[David Rose]

Serious question: Would a class with a Production GM/M be significantly different than another GM? I know the strategies are a little different with reloads and whatnot, but overall the game is the same.

Because of the subject matter there would likely be many similarities between two trainers of this type. What can be very different is there ability to teach, and there knowledge of what is actually happening when shooting at a high level.

I've seen USPSA national champions who could describe in great detail how there shooting works, and why it works. I've also seen ones that can elaborately tell you things that they aren't actually doing (they don't know what the do, or when it comes time to teach they are uncomfortable going outside of conventional schools of thought so they teach differently than what they do). Others sound like a catch phrase machine "smooth is fast!" "You can't miss fast enough!" ....

Friction:
What is it you belive you specially need to work on?
Do you have any recent match videos?

 

[Friction]

Serious question: Would a class with a Production GM/M be significantly different than another GM? I know the strategies are a little different with reloads and whatnot, but overall the game is the same.

Hopefully you're asking honestly and not prepping an argument. IMO, yes there is a difference centered mainly on the difference between Major and Minor scoring and how that affects decisions about where to accept risk and adjust the balance of speed/accuracy through a course of different lengths. I would/will seek training with anyone that has proven competency/consistency in any discipline provided they have the ability to train, since individual skill and instructional abilities are not always directly linked. Obviously though, if I am seeking a service then I might as well start at as specifically as possible and see if I can get linked up with a subject matter expert in the exact discipline I'm looking to improve in.

My main focus for training is getting better at USPSA competition scoring/HF which involves modifying my approach to a stage and un-learning/modifying some aspects of 19 years of a non-competition based approach to weapons handling, target engagements and movement. Movement into and out of a situation where you know exactly what target(s) to expect, where they will be and that you only have to put exactly two rounds on target involves different fundamentals than I am used to and my current approach has been burned in for so long its difficult to overcome. Most, if not all, of those things could be taught by anyone that excelled in competitive shooting but as I mentioned, if I am going to seek a service that I am paying for, why not start specifically with where I want to be and work from there.

 

[Friction]

What can be very different is there ability to teach, and there knowledge of what is actually happening when shooting at a high level.
...... Others sound like a catch phrase machine "smooth is fast!" "You can't miss fast enough!" ....

Yes, I'm trying to avoid diverting the thread but you are spot on. There are people all over the place that have ordered some T-Shirts and secured a URL and a YouTube account with a tacticool name before starting a "training" program. Unfortunately the number of poor choices exceeds the number of good ones in firearms related training so I am big on references. With competition training, shooting classifications make for a solid initial sniff check and additional dialogue directly with the instructor can usually sort everything else out.

I have match video that I can review with whatever instructor I get dialed in with.

 

[Jackson]

Why would I want to start an argument over this? I even prefaced it with "Serious question:" so it wouldn't be misconstrued. It seems I can't say anything on here without someone automatically assuming I mean it in the most @$$hole way possible.

 

[Jackson]

Because of the subject matter there would likely be many similarities between two trainers of this type. What can be very different is there ability to teach, and there knowledge of what is actually happening when shooting at a high level.

I've seen USPSA national champions who could describe in great detail how there shooting works, and why it works. I've also seen ones that can elaborately tell you things that they aren't actually doing (they don't know what the do, or when it comes time to teach they are uncomfortable going outside of conventional schools of thought so they teach differently than what they do). Others sound like a catch phrase machine "smooth is fast!" "You can't miss fast enough!" ....

Friction:
What is it you belive you specially need to work on?
Do you have any recent match videos?

This doesnt really address my question about a Production GM vs a Limited, Single Stack, Limited 10, or whatever other type of GM you might find to work with. For the purposes of my question, assume all else is equal.

 

[rhino]

This doesnt really address my question about a Production GM vs a Limited, Single Stack, Limited 10, or whatever other type of GM you might find to work with. For the purposes of my question, assume all else is equal.

The truly important things necessary for success are universal in practical shooting. Learning to call your shots, learning to drive the gun to where you've snapped your eyes, learning to be patient enough to acquire adequate visual information before breaking a shot or pull off of a target to go the next, understanding that the real time savers are in transitions, getting into and out of positions as quickly as possible and breaking your shots with minimal delays when doing so, etc. etc. etc.

The big differences are going to along the lines of analyzing stages and developing an optimal plan for target engagement. That's going to change based on the number of rounds available. My opinion is that anyone who can teach or coach someone to do that in one division can do it nearly as well in any other division.

If I were going to pay someone to help train me to shoot USPSA better, it would be Coach. I'd listen to what he says and I'd do my best to execute his suggestions. His shooting and stage analysis skills are easily vetted by looking at match scores or video if you understand what you're seeing. More importantly, he's one of the best teachers I've ever met and his ability to teach this subject matter is only limited by the student and how receptive they are to learning and coaching.

 

[Jackson]

What rhino posted above is what I was thinking when I asked. I am pretty inexperienced with USPSA though. I don't really know all the details of differences between the classes.

 

[chezuki]

Wouldn't "GM" in any other division would be an "M" in production by default? (As long as they held any classification in production)

 

[Friction]

This doesnt really address my question about a Production GM vs a Limited, Single Stack, Limited 10, or whatever other type of GM you might find to work with. For the purposes of my question, assume all else is equal.

What I was explaining is the scoring difference between Major and Minor power factors. Minor is the only scoring for Production, so the stage technique is different. To make a wild generalization, a Major PF shooter (pretty much all of the other classes) can occasionally choose to risk shooting faster C zones (4 points) with less negative impact their hit factor so the balance can be different in production where a C zone hit is only worth 3 points.

As I said though, anyone solid in any discipline that can teach could be effective for the majority of the sport, I was just choosing to start my search with very specific criteria and widen the search from there.

Thanks to all that have provided info.

 

[rhino]

Also, a wouldn't "GM" in any other division would be an "M" in production by default?

As long as they have shot classifiers in other divisions, yes. The rule is that you can only be one class lower than your highest classification. However, if you have not yet participated in a division, you'll be unclassified the first time out even if you're GM.

This rule is why I can't be lower than D-class in Open and Production. Heh.

​rhino out!

 

[David Rose]

This doesnt really address my question about a Production GM vs a Limited, Single Stack, Limited 10, or whatever other type of GM you might find to work with. For the purposes of my question, assume all else is equal.

Sorry Jackson,
i didn't get any of that from your original question. Rhino got it. What he said!

 

[downrange72]

What I was explaining is the scoring difference between Major and Minor power factors. Minor is the only scoring for Production, so the stage technique is different. To make a wild generalization, a Major PF shooter (pretty much all of the other classes) can occasionally choose to risk shooting faster C zones (4 points) with less negative impact their hit factor so the balance can be different in production where a C zone hit is only worth 3 points.

As I said though, anyone solid in any discipline that can teach could be effective for the majority of the sport, I was just choosing to start my search with very specific criteria and widen the search from there.

Thanks to all that have provided info.

Coach or Max Bedwell (training with a GM thread)

Basically, shoot Alphas as fast as you can is the best advice. Next, shoot them faster. Don't miss. Deltas are terrible and are hit factor killers in all divisions, especially production.

Make sure your mags have 10 rounds prior to the start of the stage

sorry, didn't see Rob and Mongo were hosting a class too. They both have a lot of knowledge about USPSA and would be a good choice as well.

 

[obijohn]

Coach would be my choice.