Revolvers Suck ...

[Wild Deuce]

or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jam ~

ok ... that's pretty lame but my problem is pretty serious. It seems that revolvers will jam after all. Here's my issue: (I posted this on the Ruger Forum in hopes of getting some answers from other Ruger users nationwide)

I hate to pile on but I suspect there might be more to this than a dirty extractor. Then again, the simplest answer might be the right answer.

....

Today, while at a match, I experienced a series of jams with my GP100 that eventually caused me to withdraw from the match. Here's the Cliff Notes version:

Background ... Ruger GP100 4" barrel, stainless. Purchased brand new several years ago and had an action job performed by a well-known and competent gunsmith. The work performed was intended for carry and not for competition. Everything was checked ... endshake, timing, etc. I have fired close to a thousand rounds since then without a flaw ... until today. Gun was cleaned in June and had twelve rounds fired a week ago to check zero. Oh yeah ... no moon clips, speedloaders only. Factory ammo today (as always, no reloads) ... Winchester White Box (from Walmart) .38 Special, 130 grain, FMJ.

First stage of the match ... fired 18 rounds (including two reloads) ... break ... fired 15 rounds (including two reloads), no problem.

Second stage, fire 6 rounds and perform reload. I fired the first round and the gun jammed. The trigger went back about 1/4 of the way and the cylinder refused to move any further. I fumbled with the gun. Opened it and the cylinder spun freely. Dumped the ammo and checked under the extractor. It was all clear. Shrugged it off and reset the stage. Buzzer goes off and the exact same thing happens again (jammed after the first shot following the reload). After one more attempt and another occurrence following the reload, I quit the stage to go check the gun.

Checked the gun at the safety table and found nothing obvious. I even used my spent casings to check spacing. I could see nothing. Gun was still relatively clean.

Third stage ... identical occurance ... three times. Quit the match.

I had at least two very competent individuals look over the gun and they were left scratching their heads. Some of these gentlemen only own revolvers and do their own gunsmithing. They didn't have a clue. We (they) went by the numbers and checked every possible cause short of disassembling the gun. We inspected the ammo for primer seating and OAL. During the very last occurrence, the RO inspected the gun while it was jammed and we both noted that the extractor was seated flush with the rear of the cylinder. We couldn’t identify a cause.

Question ... could the tolerances be tight enough and the cylinder heat up enough from seven rounds for the gun to jam? Is it even possible? It doesn't matter if the gun is cool or hot, when you load it, it's possible to jiggle the ammo just enough to make the rounds make noise (obviously not today, while it was jammed). Any ideas of what to look for?

If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears.

PS: A quick INGO search for Ruger/GP100/Revolver jams didn't turn up anything pertinent.

Also, revolvers do not suck. I was kidding. I'm just frustrated at this point. It was a pretty good match with decent stages. NPCCC usually puts on a good match and this one was up to par. Too bad I didn't have a working gun. More importantly, this has been a primary home defense gun in the past.

 

[gunman41mag]

SEND IT BACK TO RUGER

 

[hammer24]

My first thought is a primer seating issue, but you said you checked. Does the cylinder move in single action when jammed? What did Ruger say?

 

[Wild Deuce]

SEND IT BACK TO RUGER

I would like to identify a cause before I send it back to anyone (Ruger or the gunsmith) in case it's a simple fix. I'm hoping to find anyone that has had a similar occurrence with their GP100.

My first thought is a primer seating issue, but you said you checked. Does the cylinder move in single action when jammed? What did Ruger say?

Yes. We checked the primers. They were fine. The underside of the extractor star was shiny and debris free, too.

No. It would always jam before the hammer went all the way back. Cylinder was tight as a drum and required some good hard whacks with the palm of the hand to get it to swing free.

Haven't contacted Ruger or the gunsmith yet. The problem is less than 10 hours old.

 

[sbcman]

Wow- two gunsmiths and no idea. The answer is so obvious-

Get A Smith



My guess would be to check the rod. If that's not it, check the bolt stop spring.

Hope you figure it out!

 

[lrahm]

Wow- two gunsmiths and no idea. The answer is so obvious-

Get A Smith



My guess would be to check the rod. If that's not it, check the bolt stop spring.

Hope you figure it out!

^^^^^^^^^

I've had two Smith model 19's. Probably shot a minimum 20,000 rds ... no jams.

 

[sbcman]

Question- what speedloaders have you been using? If Safariland, you might have messed up the yoke or yoke bushing up a bit (easy to do with the constant slamming). If HKS, this isn't likely.

 

[Drail]

I have a little experience with GP 100s since my wife used to shoot one in USPSA and steel competition years ago and I tuned all of our guns. What you describe sounds like a problem with the hammer dog (or double action sear lever). This is usually what causes problems in DA. The part may have been misfit by Ruger (unlikely) or it may just have worn from incorrct heat treatment. On my wife's gun I was able to stretch it slightly and restore 100% function. It still needs to be replaced though. The smith who worked on the gun may have stoned just a little too much off while polishing the internals. If it's just a little short it will cause exactly what you described.

 

[Amishman44]

If you've ever had the sear polished, you can take too much off and it'll jam up on you. You can't polish it very much as it'll shorten it a bit too much if you're not careful. If it's worn from too much DA activity and, as a result it gets too short, it'll do the same thing. I would suggest replacing it and see how it performs before I do anything else.

Just my worth!!!

 

[Jeremiah]

My dad has a security six that binds up pretty regularly, the ejector rod is slightly bent and unscrews itself. I kinda wonder if you might not have a timing issue.

 

[Wild Deuce]

Wow- two gunsmiths and no idea. The answer is so obvious-

Get A Smith



My guess would be to check the rod. If that's not it, check the bolt stop spring.

Hope you figure it out!

It's funny. The two guys that were helping me look over the gun are dyed in the wool S&W guys. Their first reaction was that it was a S&W. Then they seemed genuinely surprised that it was a GP100. Anyway, they checked the rod before they realized that it doesn't unscrew like the S&W revovlers (I'm guessing since I don't own one ... larger than J-Frame).

Question- what speedloaders have you been using? If Safariland, you might have messed up the yoke or yoke bushing up a bit (easy to do with the constant slamming). If HKS, this isn't likely.

Safariland speedloaders. The cylinder did come off the yoke kind of rough but it spins very smoothly when it's seated.

I have a little experience with GP 100s since my wife used to shoot one in USPSA and steel competition years ago and I tuned all of our guns. What you describe sounds like a problem with the hammer dog (or double action sear lever). This is usually what causes problems in DA. The part may have been misfit by Ruger (unlikely) or it may just have worn from incorrct heat treatment. On my wife's gun I was able to stretch it slightly and restore 100% function. It still needs to be replaced though. The smith who worked on the gun may have stoned just a little too much off while polishing the internals. If it's just a little short it will cause exactly what you described.

If you've ever had the sear polished, you can take too much off and it'll jam up on you. You can't polish it very much as it'll shorten it a bit too much if you're not careful. If it's worn from too much DA activity and, as a result it gets too short, it'll do the same thing. I would suggest replacing it and see how it performs before I do anything else.

Just my worth!!!

Wouldn't the problem manifest everytime instead of intermittently with either of these issues? As a matter of fact, at the very least it should manifest on a particular chamber (even with a messed up yoke or bushing) in the roatation, shouldn't it? Fact is the gun was able to go through a full cylinder or two (twice) before jamming after a reload.

Thanks for the replies. It looks like I will have to follow my original plan of action. Disassemble, clean, reassemble, fire, assess, call Ruger/gunsmith.

 

[686 Shooter]

I had a Ruger Super Blackhawk that used to "lock up" on me. Lead used to build up between the barrel and cylinder, close the gap and the cylinder wouldn't turn. I doubt if a few rounds would sieze the cylinder, I shot hundreds of rounds before mine locked up.

 

[sbcman]

Safariland speedloaders. The cylinder did come off the yoke kind of rough but it spins very smoothly when it's seated.

OK. Did the crane tube look alright? Any burs or cuts?

What sometimes happens with repeated use of Safarilands, especially weark hand or unsupported reloads, is that the tube or else the yoke itself will begin to wear on the locking screw, allowing the cylinder to fall out a couple of thousands, just enough to lock everything up. Sometimes the cylinder moves perfectly, then all the sudden locks up.

I'm not real familiar with Rugers, but this might be an area to check before moving on. A test might be to release the cylinder and press it downward- if the crane "clicks" and opens a small gap, then you will know.

 

[Wild Deuce]

OK. Did the crane tube look alright? Any burs or cuts?

What sometimes happens with repeated use of Safarilands, especially weark hand or unsupported reloads, is that the tube or else the yoke itself will begin to wear on the locking screw, allowing the cylinder to fall out a couple of thousands, just enough to lock everything up. Sometimes the cylinder moves perfectly, then all the sudden locks up.

I'm not real familiar with Rugers, but this might be an area to check before moving on. A test might be to release the cylinder and press it downward- if the crane "clicks" and opens a small gap, then you will know.

I'll look into it first chance I get. The gun is soaking right now and I'm heading to bed soon. Zero-dark-thirty gets here pretty quick. I will say that all of my reloads with the safarilands have always involved my weak hand holding the cylinder itself. To the best of my knowledge, none of the cylinder components have ever had anything but centerline force placed on them during loading.

Thanks again to everyone for all the input! You guys are the best. Be back in 36 hours.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I think SBCman is on to something. If you reload differently than you preload that could be why the issue comes up after reloading.


BTW as a pistol guy I just have to say: revolvers may not jam much, but when they do they need a gunsmith to fix em

That's for you TJ.

 

[jamaxwell90]

i recently had a similar problem with my lcr 357. I sent it back to ruger they paid shipping and in about 2 and a half weeks it came back with a new cylinder assembly. the spring that lifts the cylinder lock into place broke and jammed the trigger it too stuck back. luckily ruger has pretty good customer service.

 

[kludge]

Is the ejector rod bent?

 

[n9znd]

I shot my revolver yesterday and it started to lock up. I found that the forcing cone gap on two cylinders was none. It was only 2 cylinders. The cylinder appeared to be imperfect. I stoned the cylinder in that area to open the gap by only a hair. very little needed taken off and it took care of the problem. Jim

 

[Cam]

Ive had this happen with a GP100 and a Security Six. You mentioned you checked under the ejector for debris, how about where the ejector sits in the recess in the cylinder? I've had one (1) speck of unburned powder get under the ejector and not allow it to seat properly. Sounds like it acted exactly as your is.

 

[JetGirl]

It seems that revolvers will jam after all.

Yep. They're machines. Any machine can malfunction.

the ejector rod is slightly bent and unscrews itself.

Same thing happened to my S&W 637. Nothing that a little LockTite won't fix.