Why I carry: One gun in my face was enough.

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  • bigus_D

    Master
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    2   0   0
    Dec 5, 2008
    2,063
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    Country Side
    So, I've been an LTCH holder for about six years now. I obtained my first LTCH after feeling threatened by my employer when I submitted my resignation (a story for another day).

    At that time I was a bachelor, working my first real job and fresh out of my small town liberal arts education. Living in Broadripple, I felt on top of the world and probably still had a little of my youthful invincibility. Anyhow, I purchased a solid piece of crap for too much money from Don's guns. After working through about 50 rounds, my sweet Jennings Nine it promptly broke. I purchased my Glock 19 shortly thereafter.

    I had never had any firearms training in my childhood. We had a couple of guns in the house (shotguns), but I was never introduced to them. I just wanted something in the house in case my previous boss actually went over the deep end. Shooting at the range was fun. I developed into an "OK" shot, at least while standing still with no pressure. Having read (and re-read) the Indiana firearms laws, I understood that I should get an LTCH, so this was completed.

    Fast forward about two years. I am eating dinner with my (then) girlfriend. She knows that I have a gun, and she doesn't like it. I take it with me when I go to stay at her place, but I leave it in my bag so she doesn't know. Never does the thought cross my mind to carry this hand cannon on my person when going about my daily business (let alone carrying with one in the chamber). So anyway, we are eating dinner at Fazoli's one evening around 8:30 here in Indianapolis on Keystone Ave. About half way through the meal, things take a turn for the worse.

    Two younger men come walking in the door. I notice panty hose on their heads. Not my style, but who am I to judge. Just about the time I realize that these guys aren't there for the unlimited breadsticks, I notice the table of middle school aged kids jumping over tables on their way out the door on the other side of the restaurant. I remember wondering about the older couple that was eating at the same time. They must have left moments earlier because they certainly were there anymore.

    So one of these panty hose guys heads for the cashier. The other is walking straight for my table. The one going for the cashier has a gun in his hand, the other has his hands in his sweatshirt pockets. He ordered my girlfriend and me up and to the front. We capitulated. While he was directing us to the kitchen, I was sizing up my options. The guy walking behind me was about my size, perhaps a little bigger... He had panty hose on his head, so one up on me there. I had a gun at home, so probably had him one up (but not much good was gong to come of that). I could see his buddy in the back, he was distracted, but had a clear line of site to shoot me if he just turned around.

    On our way across the front of the store, I noticed the third man (also with a gun) already in the kitchen. When we entered the kitchen, we were ordered to the floor. There were four of us with our heads down and one of them with a gun pointed at us. The other two were working on the safe with the store's manager (I assume). Just a few minutes (seconds, hours, hard to tell really) and they were running for the exit. Nobody hurt. My money was still in my pocket. My food was getting cold on the table.

    We stayed in our positions in the kitchen until the police arrived. To the best of my knowledge, they never got these guys (for this robbery). I had nothing to tell the cops... I knew how tall the first two guys were, but doubted I could pick them out from a lineup. I remember the gun was shinny and probably a larger caliber (.45 would be my guess), but who knows. While the cops were going about their interviews, I finished my dinner. My girlfriend didn't eat anything for at least another day.

    The biggest thing I took away was that I could have stopped this. I had time. I saw them coming. I could have stood up, drawn my weapon and quickly taken the first guy (and perhaps the second). I could have taken cover in the back or tried to fight my way out the front door.

    Over the next few weeks I started second guessing myself. Could I have drawn in time? What would have happened if I had started shooting? What about the guy in the back of the store? What about the get-away driver (who, if he existed, would have been looking in the windows from the outside, watching me shoot his friend). After spending hours, days, weeks, months, and years running this in my head over and over, I have decided that I don't care about all of those what if's. If I am being attacked, and see it coming, I WILL draw. I WILL shoot. I will be able to do this because I WILL have my gun on my person. It WILL be loaded. The possibility exists that that evening would have had a much worse end if I'd have taken action, and I'd have to live with that. The possibility also exists that that evening would have had a much worse end even though I didn't take action. I can not live with that.

    This is my story. This is why I carry. Hopefully somebody else will read this and realize that this can happen anywhere, anytime.
     
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    Archbishop

    Master
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    5   0   0
    Mar 11, 2009
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    INDY
    Very well articulated. Thank you for sharing I would humbly add if you had been carrying you would have had the CHOICE. Without it you could only hope for the best. I'm glad everything worked out the way it did.
    Just curious, does your GF view you having gun differently now?
     

    Steve

    Master
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    Nov 10, 2008
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    Well written!

    Putting myself in your place, I am sure I would have drawn and fired once I realized that this was going no where but bad. Pantyhose for a hat and waving a handgun about is a sure giveaway that, as you say, they weren't there for the breadsticks. The only question I would have is, after you took out the 1st BG, would you have had time to get the 2nd AND the 3rd before they got you or some other patron? Did the enviroment lend itself to a good defensive position for you? Would it have better to try to distract and then take out the BG in the office, then deal with the others?

    Not trying to 2nd guess you, just wondering what I would do in the same situation. Every altercation has it's own unique set of circumstances.

    Just glad to hear you came out OK.
     

    theweakerbrother

    Grandmaster
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    3   0   0
    Mar 28, 2009
    14,319
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    Bartholomew County, IN
    Good read. It is refreshing to hear that you are a victim but did not adopt the mentality. Instead of relying on others, you have become more self-reliant. Keep practicing and improving your shooting. Reps!
     

    bigus_D

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    Dec 5, 2008
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    Country Side
    ...after you took out the 1st BG, would you have had time to get the 2nd AND the 3rd before they got you or some other patron?
    I'm pretty sure I had time to draw on the first guy, but I'm not certain. There weren't any other customers in there after the boys at the table ran out. I didn't know there was a third in the back. The second had more cover than me. It would have been a gun fight, or they would have ran as soon as I drew and/or fired.

    I'm glad there wasn't a gun fight, and that everyone came out OK.


    Did the enviroment lend itself to a good defensive position for you?
    Not really.

    Would it have better to try to distract and then take out the BG in the office, then deal with the others?
    There was one of them between me and the door. That was my focus when he was coming my way. I had the girl with me and didn't want to start something I had no chance at finishing as they were clearly armed and I wasn't. I wanted out, and that's where I'd have tried to go if it happened again today.

    Not trying to 2nd guess you, just wondering what I would do in the same situation. Every altercation has it's own unique set of circumstances.
    Yea. I have second guessed this a lot. So many possibilities.

    I've been thinking about attending a training class (or three). I see the posts about them on INGO, but haven't dedicated the time to this yet. For me, it took a while before I started carrying and the lack of serious training was a big factor holding me back.

    The comment about having a CHOICE to fight or not is probably a more appropriate message. This is probably even more accurate of my actual position. It took a while before I really convinced myself that I could draw and shoot a man, however. If I wasn't willing to do that, then why carry? This is really what I was thinking about in the OP.
     

    rich8483

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    Sep 30, 2009
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    Crown Point - Lake County
    i was reading a self defense article some time ago and it referenced to the tell tale signs that a situation like this is going to go bad. by bad i mean the victims would be executed instead of a "simple" robbery.

    not to thread jack, but what are some of those tell tale signs?

    i had thought i heard that one of them was being escorted into a different room and forced onto the floor. like you were ordered into the kitchen. i would have expected that to be much worse. im glad you are ok.
     

    infidel

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    Dec 15, 2008
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    Crawfordsville
    Wow, amazing story.

    As a side note I was wondering if one of our more "legally aware" members here could answer a question for me - He saw a guy with a gun going for the cash, and a guy with hands in sweatshirt pocket came up to him and ordered him to the back (no visible gun). What would be the legality of shooting the guy that ordered him to the back? Forcible felony?
     

    jblomenberg16

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 13, 2008
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    Southern Indiana
    Well written - repped!

    The odds are low that any of us individually will ever go through that, but this is one case where we can't afford to gamble on the low odds. Like the OP said...having something happen, knowing you could have prevented it is harder to live with in my mind than taking action to avert any potential negative outcomes.
     

    Fargo

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 11, 2009
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    In a state of acute Pork-i-docis
    Wow, amazing story.

    As a side note I was wondering if one of our more "legally aware" members here could answer a question for me - He saw a guy with a gun going for the cash, and a guy with hands in sweatshirt pocket came up to him and ordered him to the back (no visible gun). What would be the legality of shooting the guy that ordered him to the back? Forcible felony?

    IMO perfectly legal: everyone involved is committing armed robbery regardless of whether they personally present a weapon or are acting in concert with someone who has. Accomplice liability allows everyone to be charged that way.

    You also probably have felony criminal confinement and intimidation; and that's just off the top of my head. Also, the hands in the pockets could be construed as indicative of having a weapon.

    I think you would be fine under both reasonable fear of grave bodily injury and under forcible felony.

    Joe
     

    SMiller

    Master
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    7   0   0
    Jan 15, 2009
    3,813
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    Hamilton Co.
    How in the hell would the robber notice he was OC'ing? He was sitting at a booth or table, sitting down as the guy"s" walked in the door. Makes no sense, sounds like another bs OC hater!


    On another note carry that Glock +1!!!
     

    bigus_D

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    2   0   0
    Dec 5, 2008
    2,063
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    Country Side
    Really don't want to devolve to an OC vs CC debate.

    But, They wouldn't have seen my OC until I stood up. If I was OCing, though, I would not have had the option to cooperate.
     

    MTC

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    Jul 14, 2009
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    That reads an awful lot like the armed robbery/execution-style murders that occasionally make the news. You're lucky to be alive.

    I've been thinking about attending a training class (or three). I see the posts about them on INGO, but haven't dedicated the time to this yet. For me, it took a while before I started carrying and the lack of serious training was a big factor holding me back.

    The comment about having a CHOICE to fight or not is probably a more appropriate message. This is probably even more accurate of my actual position. It took a while before I really convinced myself that I could draw and shoot a man, however. If I wasn't willing to do that, then why carry? This is really what I was thinking about in the OP.

    If you would, give serious consideration to Shay's Mindset Lab force on force. This question and many others will be resolved and any remaining internal conflicts worked through and put to rest. While I can't guarantee you will be placed in the exact same scenario as you mentioned, you will have to make decisions, act quickly, and will have the chance afterward to critically evaluate yourself in a constructive manner.
     
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    1032JBT

    LEO and PROUD of it.......even if others aren't
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    0   0   0
    Feb 24, 2009
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    Noblesville
    How in the hell would the robber notice he was OC'ing? He was sitting at a booth or table, sitting down as the guy"s" walked in the door. Makes no sense, sounds like another bs OC hater!


    On another note carry that Glock +1!!!



    Calm down...he was just adding food for thought. But if you really need an answer to your question, the BG would have seen him OC'ing when he made them stand up and go into the kitchen.
     

    snojet

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Jul 30, 2009
    81
    6
    Carmel
    Good story and I will use it to show a family member that yes carrying a gun is necessary. I related carrying to being like insurance.
    Really glad that event didn't go bad for all in the store.
     

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