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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
You'll go to jail in Indiana for this.
- Thread starter 2A_Tom
- Start date
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Cpt Caveman
Master
If the unarmed guy had choked the armed guy a little bit longer the choker might not have survived the encounter. Chokee was getting a little scared although the choke hold was a little sideways.
Its best to assume everyone you wanna call a putz is armed and crazy. You avoid a lot of bad stuff that way.
Its best to assume everyone you wanna call a putz is armed and crazy. You avoid a lot of bad stuff that way.
While that's true, if you just shut your pie hole to start with, there won't be any issues. Seriously... there is no reason for this ****. What is worth fighting over? Your "honor"? Your Manhood? Sorry... that's just macho bull**** that has no place in a modern society and is the thing hoodlums do. I don't need to prove to you (royal you) how much of a man I am. I'm quite secure in my manhood. If you're not, maybe you should be looking at tackling that demon from within and not with others.
"Royal you" meaning society in general. Not you specifically or really even the jackwagon in the vid.
The Bubba Effect
Grandmaster
Gray shirt goes for a throw and when he doesn't pull it off, he gets thumped. Don't start fights.
Oh god no. I am totally in agreement
Spear Dane
Grandmaster
Can someone explain in plain English what is a forcible felony? I like that guys vids, I find them very educational.
IC 35-41-1-11
"Forcible felony"
Sec. 11. "Forcible felony" means a felony that involves the use or
threat of force against a human being, or in which there is imminent
danger of bodily injury to a human being.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.12.
"Forcible felony"
Sec. 11. "Forcible felony" means a felony that involves the use or
threat of force against a human being, or in which there is imminent
danger of bodily injury to a human being.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.12.
If a person steps back and is pursued, only to step back again and continue being pursued, there has to come a point where a person no longer has the duty to retreat. The guy in the video was obviously outmatched by a much better fighter. Remove the who pushed who first from the equation and I don't see the cause for condemnation toward the CCW holder. Even without the duty to retreat. Say the guy comes in and attacks the guy in grey and he ends up in the head lock... good situation to draw without any retreat.
But that is not what happened.
There is no duty to retreat in Indiana and never has been.
If you start a fight, you CAN NOT escalate to deadly force unless you break contact AND make it clear that you will not continue the fight.
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against
another person to protect the person or a third person from what the
person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force.
However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to
prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the
commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be
placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the
person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force,
against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to
prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on
the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an
occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable
force against another person if the person reasonably believes that
the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other
person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully
in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the
person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property
the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).
(d) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including
deadly force, against another person and does not have a duty to
retreat if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to
prevent or stop the other person from hijacking, attempting to hijack,
or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an
aircraft in flight. For purposes of this subsection, an aircraft is
considered to be in flight while the aircraft is:
(1) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the doors of the aircraft are closed for takeoff; and
(B) until the aircraft takes off;
(2) in the airspace above Indiana; or
(3) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the aircraft lands; and
(B) before the doors of the aircraft are opened after landing.
(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not
justified in using force if:
(1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission
of a crime;
(2) the person provokes unlawful action by another person with
intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or
is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the
encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do
so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to
continue unlawful action.
(f) Notwithstanding subsection (d), a person is not justified in
using force if the person:
(1) is committing, or is escaping after the commission of, a
crime;
(2) provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to
cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) continues to combat another person after the other person
withdraws from the encounter and communicates the other
person's intent to stop hijacking, attempting to hijack, or
otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an
aircraft in flight.
As added by Acts 1976,
There is no duty to retreat in Indiana and never has been.
If you start a fight, you CAN NOT escalate to deadly force unless you break contact AND make it clear that you will not continue the fight.
IC 35-41-3-2
Use of force to protect person or property
Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against
another person to protect the person or a third person from what the
person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force.
However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to
prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the
commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be
placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the
person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(b) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force,
against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to
prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on
the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(c) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an
occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable
force against another person if the person reasonably believes that
the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other
person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully
in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the
person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property
the person has authority to protect. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
only if that force is justified under subsection (a).
(d) A person is justified in using reasonable force, including
deadly force, against another person and does not have a duty to
retreat if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to
prevent or stop the other person from hijacking, attempting to hijack,
or otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an
aircraft in flight. For purposes of this subsection, an aircraft is
considered to be in flight while the aircraft is:
(1) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the doors of the aircraft are closed for takeoff; and
(B) until the aircraft takes off;
(2) in the airspace above Indiana; or
(3) on the ground in Indiana:
(A) after the aircraft lands; and
(B) before the doors of the aircraft are opened after landing.
(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not
justified in using force if:
(1) the person is committing or is escaping after the commission
of a crime;
(2) the person provokes unlawful action by another person with
intent to cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or
is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the
encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do
so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to
continue unlawful action.
(f) Notwithstanding subsection (d), a person is not justified in
using force if the person:
(1) is committing, or is escaping after the commission of, a
crime;
(2) provokes unlawful action by another person, with intent to
cause bodily injury to the other person; or
(3) continues to combat another person after the other person
withdraws from the encounter and communicates the other
person's intent to stop hijacking, attempting to hijack, or
otherwise seizing or attempting to seize unlawful control of an
aircraft in flight.
As added by Acts 1976,
I'll play your what-if game. Say the guy in grey is mouthing off to the guy in black. Guy in black strikes first, he's legal to use a firearm provided he is fears for his life or great bodily injury.
However, what really happened is different. The guy in the grey mouthed off to the guy in black. Guy in black got lippy back. Guy in grey pushed him and is now the aggressor. He is, in my reading of the law, no longer able to LEGALLY use deadly force.
However, standard precautions apply to this. IANALAIDNSAAHILN
So, what I gather all this can be avoided by not not mouthing off, or not responding.
I can't believe I know what that says...
Here you go, guys. This video supposedly took place in Tampa, FL. Here are the applicable statutes.
[SIZE=-1]776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
[SIZE=-1]776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use or threatened use of force.—(1) A person who uses or threatens to use force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in such conduct and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use or threatened use of such force by the person, personal representative, or heirs of the person against whom the force was used or threatened, unless the person against whom force was used or threatened is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using or threatening to use force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use or threatened use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using or threatening to use force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used or threatened was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1)
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]776.041 Use or threatened use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who: (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use or threatened use of force against himself or herself, unless (a) Such force or threat of force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use or threatened use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use or threatened use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use or threatened use of force.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
[SIZE=-1]784.021 Aggravated assault.—(1) An “aggravated assault” is an assault (a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b) With an intent to commit a felony.
(2) Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
[SIZE=-1]784.045 Aggravated battery.—(1)(a) A person commits aggravated battery who, in committing battery:1. Intentionally or knowingly causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement; or
2. Uses a deadly weapon.
(b) A person commits aggravated battery if the person who was the victim of the battery was pregnant at the time of the offense and the offender knew or should have known that the victim was pregnant.
(2) Whoever commits aggravated battery shall be guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
[SIZE=-1]784.03 Battery; felony battery.—(1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) A person who has one prior conviction for battery, aggravated battery, or felony battery and who commits any second or subsequent battery commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. For purposes of this subsection, “conviction” means a determination of guilt that is the result of a plea or a trial, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld or a plea of nolo contendere is entered.
I think 776.041 would apply in this one, until he decided to give chase and then pistol whip the guy. It then becomes aggravated battery.
Again, see my standard precautions.
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
[SIZE=-1]776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use or threatened use of force.—(1) A person who uses or threatens to use force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in such conduct and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use or threatened use of such force by the person, personal representative, or heirs of the person against whom the force was used or threatened, unless the person against whom force was used or threatened is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using or threatening to use force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use or threatened use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using or threatening to use force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used or threatened was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1)
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]776.041 Use or threatened use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who: (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use or threatened use of force against himself or herself, unless (a) Such force or threat of force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use or threatened use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use or threatened use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use or threatened use of force.
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
[SIZE=-1]784.021 Aggravated assault.—(1) An “aggravated assault” is an assault (a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b) With an intent to commit a felony.
(2) Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
[SIZE=-1]784.045 Aggravated battery.—(1)(a) A person commits aggravated battery who, in committing battery:1. Intentionally or knowingly causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement; or
2. Uses a deadly weapon.
(b) A person commits aggravated battery if the person who was the victim of the battery was pregnant at the time of the offense and the offender knew or should have known that the victim was pregnant.
(2) Whoever commits aggravated battery shall be guilty of a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
[SIZE=-1]784.03 Battery; felony battery.—(1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) A person who has one prior conviction for battery, aggravated battery, or felony battery and who commits any second or subsequent battery commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. For purposes of this subsection, “conviction” means a determination of guilt that is the result of a plea or a trial, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld or a plea of nolo contendere is entered.
I think 776.041 would apply in this one, until he decided to give chase and then pistol whip the guy. It then becomes aggravated battery.
Again, see my standard precautions.
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
Yeah, ditto.
The guy in grey was experiencing a ID-10-T operating system error...he may have been experiencing it for a very long time. All his life even.
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