Winchester primers should be avoided for AR15s?

[jkc054054]

I am reloading 223 REM and using Winchester small rifle primers. Based on the vendor's recommendation I bought both the powder (BLC2) and the used brass along with the Winchester small rifle primers from a reloading vendor at the Indy 1500 gun show in January.

I ran across this website at 223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide and it says NOT to use Winchester small rifle primers in an AR15. What follows is in the article:

"For use in semi-automatics and AR15s, we advise that you stick to CCI and Remington primers. These brands have harder cups and are much less likely to pierce primers. Also, the AR15 has a free-floating firing pin that dents the primer on loading. This creates a risk of slam fires. So you want hard primer cups. The latest generation of Winchester primers, with brass-colored cups, should be avoided for AR15 use. The old silver Winchester primers worked fine, but the current WSRs are soft and can be pierced more easily than CCI or Rem primers."

Is this true? If it is I don't know who to trust for advice anymore when I purchase reloading supplies.


I just checked their website to ask them the same question and it has NO contact information for customer service, technical support, or anyone or any department at Winchester! Now what kind of company like Winchester gives absolutely NO contact information?

 

[warthog]

Winchester primers are considered to be soft and this may cause a slam fire in a semi-auto rifle. CCI are considered the hardest primers, while remaining reliable as far as setting them off so they are usually used in a semi-auto rifle.

That is why this is said by the lawyers at Winchester, its's called CYA.

I guess I must leave further comment to more experienced semi-auto rifle loaders which I am not. I load handgun and bolt action rifle for which I prefer Winchester primers.

 

[O'Shark]

I don't remember how I heard that same information about new WSR primers but, like you, I was very concerned about this. Those are what I had in stock at the time so my choice was to either use them or buy something different.

I did a lot of searching for information about WSR primers. Look on forums like AR15.com, THR and M4carbine and you'll find varying opinions. As for me, I decided to switch to CCI #41 for AR15 loads.

I did try out one package (100) and set out for the range to see what all of the worry was about. I have to admit that I was apprehensive the first time I charged the weapon. I had the rifle pointed safely downrange when I let go of the CH and all it did was chamber a round...no bang. I fired the round and got one bang like normal. The rest of the rounds that I brought that day fired perfectly. One hundred rounds are hardly enough to call them safe to use though.

Even so, there is too much advice against using the newer WSR primers to just ignore. I will use the WSRs for bolt gun or Contender loads and CCI 41s for semiauto loads. If the WSR is all I had, I'd use them in an AR. As long as I follow the 4 rules of safety, a slam fire, while embarrassing won't be a tragic accident.

Disclaimer: The rounds fired were with one rifle/BCG and were found to be safe in that rifle. Be safe; Follow the 4 rules!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I have never used Wincjester primers to load .223 for my AR. I have heard of this before.

 

[warthog]

I do want to address your comments about the no contact info on the Winchester Site.
They have contact info but you just gotta know how to find it since they are so big...

Yellow Pages

Send an email to one of the folks you think best fits and they will send it to the right person.
I have no doubt they are getting so much "Contact" right now from everyone up and down the Ammo Food Chain that it is in fact IMPOSSIBLE to address everyone individually.

Read that as you are unlikely to get a reply right now which is no reflection on the company as a whole, IMO at least.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Ar's, M1A's, M1 Garand's all have "floating firing pins" the theory is with the firing pin floating that a softer primer could go off. If you look at a chambered unfired round you will see a dimple in it. The Garand and M1A have a safety bridge to help prevent slam fires.
Saying all of that, I've been loading for these 3 since the early '90's, mostly with Winchester primers, and have never had a slam fire.
As long as you make sure your primers are completely seated you shouldn't have any issues.

 

[Leo]

I'll bet on any given firing line at any given High Powder rifle match, a full 50% of competitors will be shooting Winchester primers. I have heard this, on and off, as well as concerns with federal primers. I have not ever seen a problem, and with organized competition, If someone would pop an extra round at an improper time, EVERYONE would know about it.

When you shoot new factory ammo from Winchester, (or Federal), whose primers do you think they use? I think it is what warthog suggests, simple CYA to make up for sloppy owners who do not keep their bolt carrier groups clean.

I'll agree with our friends above, I practice proper firearm safety even if I am shooting military spec ammo with the hardest primers. Good Luck

 

[jakemartens]

What primer does winchester use in their .223/5.56 ammo that they make?

 

[antsi]

Is this really new? It seems like I have been hearing this for years.

I have never used any primers except Winchester for the ammo I reload for my ARs and I have never had any problem.

 

[rdtracing94]

Ive have never had a problem with them.

 

[william]

I've loaded thousands of 223 with winchester primers and never had a problem. All shot out of ar's. Last summer at a bachelor party weekend we went through 5 50cal ammo cans worth that I loaded with winchester primers. Worked fine in the guys m16. I have heard this before though...also not to use federal match primers.

 

[Litlratt]

I've shot well over 100k in AR15s. Never an issue with them.

 

[warthog]

Is this really new? It seems like I have been hearing this for years.

I have never used any primers except Winchester for the ammo I reload for my ARs and I have never had any problem.

the OP is new, not the topic. He is just making sure that he isn't doing something he shouldn't.

So it is a good topic for him, he just wants to stay safe and doesn't have the experience we have on the subject... well you folks at least.

So you have your answer amigo! Load 'em up!

 

[Robert Richardson]

Been using Winchester primers for years,no problems. I think if there was a real problem it would show up with the factory ammo also.

 

[Classic]

It would be interesting to see some facts and data presented on this subject. I use Winchester primers whenever I can find them and have never experienced anything like the problem described in this thread. It makes no sense to respond to issues that start out with "I heard from a guy at the range, (or gun shop or on a net forum) that product A or B has this or that problem. Before I stop using a product I want to see some definitive facts or statistical information.

Can anyone imagine the Winchester corporate lawyers leaving themselves open to lawsuits by saying "Yeah, go ahead and use that thinner material in our primers to save money. No matter if it causes a few "slam-fires"."?

Really?

 

[nucone]

But, but, but ... it must be true because I read it on the internet.

 

[Chewie]

Never had a problem with WSR or WLR from Winchester in any of my rifle reloads and I shoot both 223 and 308. Of course now that I have said that I will probably be cursed by the primer gods!

 

[Sniper 79]

Used them exclusivly in my ar for several years now and have never had an issue. I buy them because they are cheap and available. I am aware of the problem and do not slam the bolt home on the first round and make sure I am in a safe place when I do it. I wouldnt worry about it much if you are hunting and target shooting. Just be careful and use what is available to you especialy at the present time.

 

[gds]

NOT A PROBLEM IN 20 YEARS OF RELOADING them in 223 and shooting thousands of them through a M16 .

 

[jakemartens]

What primer does winchester use in their .223/5.56 ammo that they make?

This was a real question

is this a problem with their winchester white box .223 ammo?

or just the primers you buy?

do no use the same ones?