Where would you shoot a bad guy in self defense?

[HICKMAN]

Shoot 'em in the kiester with rock salt!

what he said

 

[#1 Steel Shooter]

Center mass double tap, repeat as needed.

 

[ArmyMP]

I agree center mass is best.... more area shot at = more area to hit.... besides any vital organ hit there is gonna make him think twice....

 

[Kick]

Cannot believe how many times this thread has gotten off track and then it hops right back on....

 

[rhino]

Okay . . . since so many seem to disregard my comments about "center of mass," how about we try it this way:

When you use the term "center of mass" in your message, please describe in plain English (without pseudo-scientific jargon) the area of the human body to which you refer.

Keep in mind that the actual center of mass of the average adult human is at or below the navel when you describe where you think you should shoot. Also consider that if everyone has their own "definition" of "center of mass," the term itself lacks any useful meaning.

 

[Kick]

Okay . . . since so many seem to disregard my comments about "center of mass," how about we try it this way:

When you use the term "center of mass" in your message, please describe in plain English (without pseudo-scientific jargon) the area of the human body to which you refer.

Keep in mind that the actual center of mass of the average adult human is at or below the navel when you describe where you think you should shoot. Also consider that if everyone has their own "definition" of "center of mass," the term itself lacks any useful meaning.

When I think of center mass, I think of a 6X6 box from the area just below then neck, centered on the torso starting at the bottom of the neck.

 

[rhino]

When I think of center mass, I think of a 6X6 box from the area just below then neck, centered on the torso starting at the bottom of the neck.

Good. Now we're getting somewhere!

So, if you want to effectively communicate this concept in the future, you may choose to write ". . . a 6X6 box from the area just below then neck, centered on the torso starting at the bottom of the neck . . ." and avoid saying "center of mass," because what you meant to say is not the center of mass in any manner, shape, or form.

Problem solved! Next!

 

[HICKMAN]

center mass, upper body, as was taught to me by SFC Daniels and SSG Mitchell in 1986 at Fort Knox.

I'd imagine the USPSA targets are based on the same area.

 

[John Galt]

Two in the heart, one in the head is what I would be aiming for. I pray to never be put in that situation. If so, the situation would not be initiated by me and I figure it's my life (or an innocent person) or theirs.
Be safe and prcatice, practice, practice!

 

[Joe Williams]

I'm just gonna keep saying center mass, just cause I'm trying to give Rhino a nervous twitch.

 

[Zoub]

Good. Now we're getting somewhere!

So, if you want to effectively communicate this concept in the future, you may choose to write ". . . a 6X6 box from the area just below then neck, centered on the torso starting at the bottom of the neck . . ." and avoid saying "center of mass," because what you meant to say is not the center of mass in any manner, shape, or form.

Problem solved! Next!

Between the shoulders. (3 words is even simpler but you can say 6x6 box between the shoulders if you want to)

ANYTHING I want to kill, I want to shoot between the shoulders from any angle I can get.

 

[rhino]

I'm just gonna keep saying center mass, just cause I'm trying to give Rhino a nervous twitch.

At some point I'll get numb to it!

At SOME point . . .

The problem here is that someone reading this might think that people really mean center of mass when they say "center of mass." If a reader who is otherwise not well versed in defensive shooting, but who actually understands what center of mass really means, there could be a problem. They'll be thinking people are suggesting lower belly shots.

 

[rhino]

Between the shoulders. (3 words is even simpler but you can say 6x6 box between the shoulders if you want to)

ANYTHING I want to kill, I want to shoot between the shoulders from any angle I can get.

That will work!

 

[jeremy]

Center of Mass as defined by the US Army as per FM 3-22.9 Advanced Rifle Marksmanship, Chapter 7 Paragraph 184-187

POINT OF AIM
7-184. Most short-range engagements will be decided by who hits his target with the first round. During
this type of engagement, it is more important to put the target down as quickly as possible than it is to kill
him immediately.
7-185. Soldiers must aim at the lethal zone (center of mass) of the body. Although shots to the center of
the body may prove to be eventually fatal, they may not immediately incapacitate the target. A shot that
does not immediately incapacitate the target may be no better than a clean miss. Because of this, and the
possible presence of military equipment or protective vests, Soldiers must also be able to engage targets
with incapacitating shots.

Lethal Shot Placement
7-186. The target's lethal zone (Figure 7-24) is its center of mass, between the waist and the chest. Shots
in this area maximize the hydrostatic shock of the shot pellets. Due to the nature of SRC, Soldiers must
continue to engage targets until they go down.



Figure 7-24. Lethal zone.
Incapacitating Shot Placement
7-187. Only one shot placement guarantees immediate and total incapacitation: roughly centered in the
face, below the middle of the forehead and the upper lip, and from the eyes in. Shots to the side of the head
should be centered between the crown of the skull and the middle of the ear opening, from the center of the
cheekbones to the middle of the back of the head (Figure 7-25).

Figure 7-25. Incapacitation zone.


So for a soldier to Center of Mass, he would be correct... Hmmmmm

 

[finity]

In all honesty, in the majority of all self-defense scenarios you're not going to be "aiming" anywhere. You won't even have the opportunity to use the sights. You'll pull the gun, point it in the general direction of the BG & pull the trigger until the BG is no longer a threat or, because this is reality, not a video game, you are no longer a threat to the BG (i.e. dead or severely injured).

It's nice to think that we will have all the time in the world to come to full extension with a two-handed grip & "put two in the chest & one in the head" but reality will probably say otherwise.

 

[Steve MI]

In all honesty, in the majority of all self-defense scenarios you're not going to be "aiming" anywhere. You won't even have the opportunity to use the sights. You'll pull the gun, point it in the general direction of the BG & pull the trigger until the BG is no longer a threat or, because this is reality, not a video game, you are no longer a threat to the BG (i.e. dead or severely injured).

It's nice to think that we will have all the time in the world to come to full extension with a two-handed grip & "put two in the chest & one in the head" but reality will probably say otherwise.

Wow based on what? do you find this to be true

 

[randyb]

Whatever piece of bone or meat he presents me, is the factual answer.

Hypothetically, the thorax, and ideally, the brainstem.

AMEN!

 

[finity]

Wow based on what? do you find this to be true

Well, since the vast majority of us here haven't been involved in a SD encounter, it's pretty much just my humble opinion based on what I perceive to be common sense in imagining how a common self-defense situation will unfold (coupled with quite a few SD videos on the 'net). Sorry I should have specified that in my post. From now on to make it easier why don't you just add "IMHO" on to any post that you have a question about.

Really, unless you plan on (& teach) standing still & aiming using a full sight picture with an extended two handed grip on a typical BG who is within several feet of you while he's got a gun or knife asking for your wallet, I can't see how else it might go down.

If there's a BG in front of me with a gun there is no way I'm going to be standing still while pulling my weapon to aim if that's what I decide to do. I'm going to be moving so that he can't shoot ME. I really don't care if I shoot him as long as I don't get shot or stabbed myself. Shooting at him is just a better way to make it so he can't shoot YOU as easily. There's a reason why point-shooting training & "get off the X" is fairly popular.

If you've got the distance & the time it might work out.

Like I said this is all IMHO. How many pure one-on-one SD scenarios have you been personally involved in?

 

[St Elias]

As trained - two rounds center of mass, pause, two more center of mass

 

[mk2ja]

I really don't care if I shoot him as long as I don't get shot or stabbed myself. Shooting at him is just a better way to make it so he can't shoot YOU as easily. There's a reason why point-shooting training & "get off the X" is fairly popular.

I think you're mostly correct, but I just thought I'd make the comment that we do still need care if we shoot the BG because we're still responsible for rounds that don't hit the intended target.

I do imagine that in the heat of an attack against me I may not remember to do the full procedure of lining up the sights. That's why training is so important, because the more I train, the more likely I am to "remember" because it'll be so natural.