When is 'trigger tapping' called for?

[rhino]

Rhino mentioned it in the pistol class (ACT); but never went into any detail. (other than to discourage it for what we were doing at the time)

Could you remind me what I said? I've never read or heard of the term "trigger tapping," so I don't really know what you're talking about.

Okay, okay ... I just skimmed through the rest of the messages and I gather you meant "trigger slapping." That is a term I definitely use!

Some of the others have addressed this, but I'll go ahead and give my take on it.

Before I go into this, trigger slapping is nothing more than a trigger press technique. It is not bump firing, it is not shooting double taps or controlled pairs. It's just a way to work the trigger effectively.

There are two basic methods for pressing the trigger that yield good results when shooting a pistol. One is trigger slapping, and the other is "riding the trigger" aka "catching the link." I'll address riding first.

Ridin the trigger involves keeping the finger in contact with the trigger face throughout the first and all subsequent shots. After the first trigger press/fire/slide cycle, the trigger is allowed to move forward only far enough for it to rest. On guns such as Glocks, there will be a definite, very noticeable reset felt. Once the trigger resets, no more forward motion is allowed, and the next shot's trigger press starts from this position.

Catching the link works best with guns that have triggers that 1) have a noticeable reset, and 2) have a strong spring that pushes the trigger forard. Some instructors advocate using this technique no matter what kind of gun it is.

"Trigger slapping" is something that gets a bad name from people who don't understand it. The term suggests that the finger literally slaps the trigger to the rear, implying imprecise control of the trigger press. This is not true, at least when you're doing it correctly. Trigger slapping implies that the finger is allowed to move forward and lose contact with the front of the trigger, than after the trigger resets, the finger is put back in contact and pressed backward again. There is no attempt to feel or hear the trigger rest, but instead the trigger is allowed to move forward all the way.

Trigger slapping works best (or rather is the easiest to master) with gun with light, short trigger pulls and short resets. That suggest 1911s and similar guns. It's possible to do it with other guns, but it takes some practice and a little natural ability (as notasccrmom showed us).

One of the reasons why it works well for 1911s and similar guns is because the spring that pushes the trigger forward as the sear resets is weak compared to the equivalent on a Glock. This is especially true when comparing a 1911 with a good trigger job (3# or less) vs. a stock Glock trigger. If you ride the trigger, you can (usually do) slow the trigger's forward progress and prevent it from resetting as quickly as possible. Removing you finger allows it to move forward unimpeded and it will reset more quickly allowing for a faster subsequent shot.

The downside of riding the trigger is that it's difficult and sometimes impossible to feel the reset of the trigger on some guns, especially under stress. As the others mentioned, this can lead to what we call "trigger freeze," which is the trigger failing to reset before the next trigger press. Another issue is that it can lead to pinning the trigger to the rear, which can compromise accuracy if you don't know how to do it without making the gun move.

The downside of trigger slapping is that it's tough to do with some guns and most people will get better results riding the trigger on guns like Glocks with stock trigger pulls. The tendency is to not press the trigger directly rearward without disturbing the sight picture if the operator does not have enough sensitivity and control to do it. Another factor is that removing ones finger from the trigger can affect the alignment of the gun before the bullet leave the barrel. I am also skeptical that it will yield significant benefits for most shooters with factory stock guns that have strong/positive trigger resets.

The bottom line with any trigger control is pressing the trigger to the rear without disturbing the sight picture, then resetting the trigger as quickly as possible, again without disturbing the sight picture (although recoil will obvious affect it!). How it gets done will depend on the shooter and their equipment. If I didn't have a good reason to try to learn trigger slapping, I'm not sure why I would want to do it. It's the kind of detail that won't matter a lot if you master it, and it will adversely affect your marksmanship if you fail to do so.

Given that, it's how some people naturally shoot. Some do it well, others not so much.

 

[mettle]

Could you remind me what I said? I've never read or heard of the term "trigger tapping," so I don't really know what you're talking about.

You were getting us ready for a drill while you were mentioning sear/trigger reset and how we were not to 'slap the trigger' or really remove our fingers from the trigger like when someone would 'trigger tap'.

You then said something like 'trigger slapping/tapping' was another discussion and not for use with what we were doing.

I have just wondered off and on about it. Perhaps, may it was your bro. that had said something about it. It was towards the first of the day when sight picture and 'slow fire' was being done to gain good trigger control. You wanted 'deliberate' movement.


I've got two kids under 4 years old; perhaps, since I have NOT slept since then I may be seeing and hearing things...

 

[rhino]

Rob Leatham is a well known trigger slapper. Works pretty well for him, actually.

Todd Jarrett too!

And Coach!

 

[rhino]

Okay ... maybe we (my brother and I) both said something!

For what it's worth, on those rare occasions when I shoot a gun like a Glock, I try to ride the trigger. I may allow it to move a little past the reset, but I try not to let my finger completely leave the front of the trigger. The reason for that is I tend to jerk the trigger if my finger moves that far.

I think it would work better on a Glock that has had a trigger job done on it to reduce the pull weight, etc.

All trigger presses, regardless of the technique, should be deliberate movement, though!

You were getting us ready for a drill while you were mentioning sear/trigger reset and how we were not to 'slap the trigger' or really remove our fingers from the trigger like when someone would 'trigger tap'.

You then said something like 'trigger slapping/tapping' was another discussion and not for use with what we were doing.

I have just wondered off and on about it. Perhaps, may it was your bro. that had said something about it. It was towards the first of the day when sight picture and 'slow fire' was being done to gain good trigger control. You wanted 'deliberate' movement.


I've got two kids under 4 years old; perhaps, since I have NOT slept since then I may be seeing and hearing things...

 

[jeremy]

Thanks Rhino! That explanation makes it fall into place in my mind. This is how I was taught to shoot anyway just never heard it called this before.

 

[obijohn]

just want to add my two cents. fwiw, most shooting a polymer framed gun will benefit from catching the link to reset. like coach, and others, i tend to be a trigger slapper. it comes more from shooting 1911's with extremely light triggers than anything else in my case. most of the time i don't even know, unless of course rhino tells me i'm slapping the trigger....again...

 

[kludge]

Do this: Load up a few mags, and pick a spot on the berm, not a target. Just empty a mag into that spot on the berm as fast as you can while keeping your eyes open and watching how the sights move. The key is keeping your eyes open while you shoot and this will show whether or not you do. Once you establish that, pay special attention to how the front sight tracks up and down while the gun cycles. If your grip is solid, the front sight should settle right back into the rear sight and be on target. You'll probably need to start slow between each shot, but with practice you'll be able to follow up quicker and quicker with the next aimed shot.

Doing this will show any weaknesses in your grip, further stressing the importance of a proper grip as emphasized in other threads. If you have to re-grip the gun between shots or the sights don't return consistently, then you have a grip issue that you need to sort out before going further.

Rep'd... this is very good advice.

Even as part of my slow-fire practice, I watch the sights come back on target and do a trigger reset as part of my follow through, and yes I find myself doing a "trigger slap" during rapid fire at close targets.

A slap is not a "jerk" it is still a controlled pull or squeeze.

 

[rhino]

Yeah, the reason why we try to specifically use the words "trigger press" is to emphasize that all your finger is doing in the end is pressing the trigger directly backward, not jerking or literally "pulling" it.

Rob Pincus has a really good method of teaching shooting that starts with what he calls "extend, touch, press." Arms extend toward the target, finger touches the face of the trigger, finger presses the trigger directly backward. It's simple and effective.

 

[mettle]

Yeah, the reason why we try to specifically use the words "trigger press" is to emphasize that all your finger is doing in the end is pressing the trigger directly backward, not jerking or literally "pulling" it.

Rob Pincus has a really good method of teaching shooting that starts with what he calls "extend, touch, press." Arms extend toward the target, finger touches the face of the trigger, finger presses the trigger directly backward. It's simple and effective.

Deliberate is the key to effective 'slapping'? I'm gonna work on this early Sat. morning. I want to something like this for when I hit the range, to neutralize any kinks with every pull.

 

[notasccrmom]

Deliberate is the key to effective 'slapping'? I'm gonna work on this early Sat. morning. I want to something like this for when I hit the range, to neutralize any kinks with every pull.

The key to any trigger control technique is keeping the sights on the target until the bullet leaves the barrel. Everything else (proper grip, muscle control to pull the trigger straight back) is going to help you achieve that. As said before, every trigger input should be deliberate no matter what technique is used. There is no accidental trigger manipulation without very bad results.

 

[rhino]

I think this needs to be said too:

If anyone is having marksmanship problems, trying to master trigger slapping isn't going to help and will probably make it worse until you resolve those fundamental issues.

 

[notasccrmom]

I think this needs to be said too:

If anyone is having marksmanship problems, trying to master trigger slapping isn't going to help and will probably make it worse until you resolve those fundamental issues.

Very good point. Shooting accurately while slapping the trigger is somewhat of an advanced technique and not for everyone. You have to walk before you can run.

 

[Serial Crusher]

Here's an article by Massad Ayoob where he goes through the differences and talks about how he splits the difference, maintaining contact with the trigger but giving it more than enough room to reset.

Trigger slap: the pros and cons of the method | Guns Magazine | Find Articles at BNET

 

[rvb]

The goal of manipulating a trigger is to break the shot without disturbing the sight alignment. period. This does not change depending on what name you give a technique, your method for manipulating the trigger, or the distance or speed at which you are shooting.

Most shooters (including many "experts," instructors, etc) take this to apply only to precision shooting and not to speed shooting. This is where you start hearing goofy things like "let the shot suprise you," because it is assumed this has to be a slow, careful process.

Loot at all the things that have to happen including putting your finger on the trigger, taking up pre-travel (to include the safety on a glock), breaking the shot, and resetting the trigger. If you compress these into milliseconds, the same things happen as when shooting "slow fire," just faster. The goal above has not changed. You are just compressing that window where you are putting tension on the sear into milliseconds vs seconds.

I spent a lot of time trying to become a "reset rider" since it sounded good in theory that your finger moves less and moves less = faster.... but it just didn't work for me. It places the focus on a non-important part of the trigger manipulation and causes the transition from reset to trigger pull to be on the hairy edge of where the gun functions. I found my splits DECREASED when I let my finger go well forward of the reset point, I had one less thing to focus on, and I never again had a problem with the trigger not reseting.

Be carefull with NAMES. Things like "tapping" and "slapping" and "releasing" etc ad nausium can imply things other than the goal I stated in my first sentence.

Learning the reset point for a single gun can be dangerous when you switch platforms if the reset is differnt.

Robbie Leatham claims to actually hit his finger on the trigger guard on each shot!

-rvb

edit to add: a point that causes confusion... the "traditional" idea of trigger control has you stopping finger motion when putting tension on the sear while "slapping" implies continous motion of the finger through the sear tension. I look at them the same, just "slapping" has a very brief (millisecond) window of time where you are increasing tension on the sear...

 

[rhino]

Most shooters (including many "experts," instructors, etc) take this to apply only to precision shooting and not to speed shooting. This is where you start hearing goofy things like "let the shot suprise you," because it is assumed this has to be a slow, careful process.

I agree with most of what you said, but I learned a new appreciation for the idea of "let the shot surprise you" in a John Farnam class last week.

This is clearly not applicable to you, but a lot of people have significant trouble hitting point of aim at just a few feet, regardless of how slowly or fast they go. One of the reasons is that they learn to anticipate what happens when the shot is fired, and they involuntarily make movements that alter the orientation of the gun specifically because they are concentrating on the gun firing. Getting them to try to ignore that and instead focus visually and mentally on their sight picture really, truly helps. I've seen it in action and I believe it helps.

When you're going as fast as you go or as fast as people you teach to shoot are going to go, everything gets compressed into a much shorter time frame. There is no time to worry about when the gun is going to fire, and you've already conditioned yourself to focus on other things.

Taking a shot doesn't have to take a long time, but I know you understand that the average shooter is going to take a really long time breaking a shot compared to you. That's just the way it is. I think trying to get them to focus on the sights and ignore when the shot is going to break is a valid concept. If and when they learn to work the trigger in conjunction with the visual input from the sights at a more rapid pace, obviously when the trigger breaks becomes a moot issue since there is no time for conscious thought about it. In the end, they've still learned to concentrate on the sight picture, the trigger is pressed directly to the rear, the gun fires and cycles, and they get back on the sights.

 

[rvb]

I learned a new appreciation for the idea of "let the shot surprise you" .... a lot of people have significant trouble hitting point of aim at just a few feet, regardless of how slowly or fast they go. One of the reasons is that they learn to anticipate what happens when the shot is fired, and they involuntarily make movements that alter the orientation of the gun specifically because they are concentrating on the gun firing. Getting them to try to ignore that and instead focus visually and mentally on their sight picture really, truly helps. I've seen it in action and I believe it helps.

You make a good straight man in this comedy routine, Rhino. You've taken a path that gets us exactly to my point. Flinching is caused by one of two things: fear of recoil or over-trying to tame recoil, most often the former. For new shooters, it's often faster and easier to band-aid over the real problem of flinching by tricking them with the method of having them pull the trigger very slowly being "surprised." This is often taught as "trigger control" but the shooter never resolves the real problem of flinching. This is a work-around for flinching and does not address what you said is the goal to get them to ignore flinching. Rather than teaching to ignore the gun firing, this teaches to react to it. It just so happens the reaction is slower than the time it takes to get the lead down the pipe.

When you're going as fast as you go or as fast as people you teach

You're making an incorrect assumption that I only teach speed shooting. I'm an NRA instructor and have taught considerably more brand-newbies than I have go-fast classes.

[At high speeds] everything gets compressed into a much shorter time frame. There is no time to worry about when the gun is going to fire, and you've already conditioned yourself to focus on other things.

On the contrary, I have seen countless new practical shooters who can cut out x-rings slow fire put rounds in the dirt shooting fast, because now they are forced to deal with the flinch that "being surprised" has band-aided over for years. The fact that they know w/in milliseconds when the shot is going to break forces them to focus on it because years of reacting to the surprise has taught them nothing.

but I know you understand that the average shooter is going to take a really long time breaking a shot compared to you. That's just the way it is. I think trying to get them to focus on the sights and ignore when the shot is going to break is a valid concept.

I understand that most shooters do take a really long time, but they don't have to. It's just because 99% of shooters have been taught or read to "be surprised." When I am teaching a brand newbie, I teach trigger control away from the range in dry fire to let them experience breaking the shot w/o disturbing the sights. Once on the firing line, I start with some specific drills truly meant to make them capable of ignoring the gun firing. You can usually tell by their reactions this is the biggest "oh wow" moment of the whole range session for them. Once this "ah-ha" moment has occurred, only then do we go on to aimed shots. Sometimes as the session continues, the fear creeps back in and they start flinching again, so I go back to the first drills and repeat.

So the whole point of my last two posts is that trigger control is breaking the shot w/o disturbing the sights. Regardless of the name you put to the technique you use to accomplish that or the speed at which you manipulate the trigger, that's all it is. So much of the stuff that is taught as "trigger control" really has nothing to do with it, and "being surprised" is an example that, if we are honest with ourselves, is used to mask flinching problems. And because these techniques result in a quick way to get a new shooter hitting the x-ring, they have become "the way..." and then they get regurgitated as gospel and that's what I have a problem with.

I'm not saying I've never used the technique of having a shooter be surprised. It's a tool in the tool box. But it's not trigger control.

sorry so long winded. Hard concepts for me to put into written words.

-rvb

 

[rhino]

Well, now you're just going to have to teach me how to do it. Hah!

For what it's worth, I've never taught anyone and mentioned a surprise trigger break. However, I was just in a class with John Farnam a couple of weekends ago. He didn't call it that, but it's what he was teaching and I saw it working for the people who were previously having trouble. One guy in the class had never fired a gun before and by the end he passed the qualification test (which is challenging). This inspired my commentary.

I harp on the "press the trigger directly to the rear without disturbing the alignment of the gun." However, I can't dispute that the idea of a surprise trigger break works because I've seen it in action. Or, maybe it was just magic. Who knows.