well, I can enlighten you on that since I am a practicing physician, and I can tell you that we really have no control on prices, since it is all predicated on a fee schedule designed by insurance companies. And like I said earlier, we can charge any amount, but insurance companies dictate how much they can pay you and you are not allowed to charge the balance, or any extras to the patient.
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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
What's wrong with health care you ask?
- Thread starter U.S. Patriot
- Start date
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ghostinthewood
Sharpshooter
But that is at inflated prices and only in an emergency. You understand how painful gall stones are right? She'll lose sleep for a couple of nights because can't sleep through the pain. It'd even be different if she could afford the 'scrips.
We could fix health insurance in Indiana today if we wanted to. Indiana controls all of the health insurance regulations within our boarders. One of the reasons health insurance is so expensive is a lack of competition. There is a lack of competition because each of the 50 states has their own insurance regulations and qualifications, which makes it very costly for an insurer to sell in more than one state.
Then you look at the actual regulations. The State of Indiana, and many others, force insurance companies to lump people together by region first, then seperate them out by affiliation after that. Then, only the people in that small group share the group's cost. That basically forces you into an employer based insurance system. In fact, most employer based insurance is self insured and administered by a welpointe or anthem and it's up to the employer to jump through all of the regulations and qualifications.
Obviously there are about a zillion things wrong with just how we buy and sell health insurance without even getting into the nuts and bolts of how risk is calucalated, how providers are reimbursed, and so on and so forth.
Also, I'm not aware of any hospital in Indiana that is a "for profit" hospital. All we have are County Hospitals and the Clarian Network, which is Not For Profit.
They can run a "surplus", which is weasel words for profit, but in order to keep their NFP tax status, they are forced to re-invest all profits or lower cost.
Then you look at the actual regulations. The State of Indiana, and many others, force insurance companies to lump people together by region first, then seperate them out by affiliation after that. Then, only the people in that small group share the group's cost. That basically forces you into an employer based insurance system. In fact, most employer based insurance is self insured and administered by a welpointe or anthem and it's up to the employer to jump through all of the regulations and qualifications.
Obviously there are about a zillion things wrong with just how we buy and sell health insurance without even getting into the nuts and bolts of how risk is calucalated, how providers are reimbursed, and so on and so forth.
Also, I'm not aware of any hospital in Indiana that is a "for profit" hospital. All we have are County Hospitals and the Clarian Network, which is Not For Profit.
They can run a "surplus", which is weasel words for profit, but in order to keep their NFP tax status, they are forced to re-invest all profits or lower cost.
CampingJosh
Master
- Dec 16, 2010
- 3,298
- 99
How did we get to where we are? What got us to here?
Relying on health insurance to pay for every doctor's visit is like turning in your oil change to your auto insurance company.
Why do we do it with health insurance and not auto insurance? Tax laws.
Just after WWII, companies started offering health insurance in order to attract (and keep) good employees. Congress decided that the health insurance that employers pay for will be untaxed, but health insurance that is self-provided is taxed.
So the more that a health insurance company pays, the more taxes are avoided. So we grew to expect that our insurance would pay everything.
There is a huge problem when the person who decides how much to spend is a different person than the one who is expected to pay. Costs get way out of hand because the consumer has no incentive whatsoever to make sure costs are kept to a reasonable level.
In other words, government was the driving force that lead us to this point. Why are so many people wanting the poison to serve as the cure?
Relying on health insurance to pay for every doctor's visit is like turning in your oil change to your auto insurance company.
Why do we do it with health insurance and not auto insurance? Tax laws.
Just after WWII, companies started offering health insurance in order to attract (and keep) good employees. Congress decided that the health insurance that employers pay for will be untaxed, but health insurance that is self-provided is taxed.
So the more that a health insurance company pays, the more taxes are avoided. So we grew to expect that our insurance would pay everything.
There is a huge problem when the person who decides how much to spend is a different person than the one who is expected to pay. Costs get way out of hand because the consumer has no incentive whatsoever to make sure costs are kept to a reasonable level.
In other words, government was the driving force that lead us to this point. Why are so many people wanting the poison to serve as the cure?
SemperFiUSMC
Master
- Jun 23, 2009
- 3,480
- 38
What's wrong with the health care system? That's easy. People think they are entitled to health care. People think they are entitled to the best health care in the world. People think they are entitled to free health care. It's borne out by some of posts in this thread.
Don't know what drug the OP was referring to, but he is looking at it the wrong way. Rather than lamenting the cost, he should be grateful that a pharma company developed a drug that helps. What's the alternative to not paying $1,000 for the meds?
It sucks if you can't afford something you want. There are lots of things I want I can't afford. I don't whine about it. If I want it I figure out how to get it. I don't stick my hands in other people's pockets to get it. Health care is no different.
Be thankful that some guy decided to invest in a pharma company that roduces the drug you need to remain alive. Be thankful that nurses are willing to work for the meager wages they do. Be thankful that a really smart guy spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and took 10 years out of his life to be there at the exact moment you needed him. But instead, most people complain because they think they are entitled to be kept alive and well.
Why should I or anyone else have to pay for anyone else's health care? I am my brother's keeper. Not the guy two towns over. If you can't afford a plate in your arm don't engage in activities that put you at risk to require one. Don't do stupid s*** like shoot yourself in the eye and expect anyone else to pay for it. I broke my ankle playing hockey. I paid every dime of the cost of care myself because as a stupid 20 something I was invincible and didn't have insurance. My mistake. My bad. I didn't ask my mommy or daddy to pay for it. I didn't stiff the doctor. I didn't go talk to the township trustee to see if I could get them to give me money. I hobbled until payday before I got it seen and fixed. My ankle still cracks and pops when I walk. But I walk and I never relied on theft from strangers.
Health care is no different than any other product or service. If you can't afford insurance get a job that pays you better.
Don't know what drug the OP was referring to, but he is looking at it the wrong way. Rather than lamenting the cost, he should be grateful that a pharma company developed a drug that helps. What's the alternative to not paying $1,000 for the meds?
It sucks if you can't afford something you want. There are lots of things I want I can't afford. I don't whine about it. If I want it I figure out how to get it. I don't stick my hands in other people's pockets to get it. Health care is no different.
Be thankful that some guy decided to invest in a pharma company that roduces the drug you need to remain alive. Be thankful that nurses are willing to work for the meager wages they do. Be thankful that a really smart guy spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and took 10 years out of his life to be there at the exact moment you needed him. But instead, most people complain because they think they are entitled to be kept alive and well.
Why should I or anyone else have to pay for anyone else's health care? I am my brother's keeper. Not the guy two towns over. If you can't afford a plate in your arm don't engage in activities that put you at risk to require one. Don't do stupid s*** like shoot yourself in the eye and expect anyone else to pay for it. I broke my ankle playing hockey. I paid every dime of the cost of care myself because as a stupid 20 something I was invincible and didn't have insurance. My mistake. My bad. I didn't ask my mommy or daddy to pay for it. I didn't stiff the doctor. I didn't go talk to the township trustee to see if I could get them to give me money. I hobbled until payday before I got it seen and fixed. My ankle still cracks and pops when I walk. But I walk and I never relied on theft from strangers.
Health care is no different than any other product or service. If you can't afford insurance get a job that pays you better.
ghostinthewood
Sharpshooter
He said his dad is on a feeding tube. I'd take a shot in the dark and say this is about more than someone's selfish desires and wants. I don't think anyone here has sounded especially ungrateful either...
I said shooting myself in the eye was stupid and I alluded to the fact that I wouldn't expect anyone else to pay for it by pointing out so obviously that it was stupid. I have insurance though so I used it. Go figure. There is no need to be rude.
Insurance protects people more than you think. If I didn't have insurance for my hand I would've sued the school, school conference, admin, AD, coaches, the other player (he was holding me as an offensive lineman), other team's coaches and ad, and anyone else i feel like. Falling and breaking my arm? School, PE teacher, the girls that were fighting that I went to go break up (I was a PE cadet), the police officers that were BS'ing with the school nurse about the fight, etc etc etc. You can bet your ass in this day and age I would've won too. Shooting myself in the eye would be harder, but it is VERY easy to get out of the insurance waivers the the field have. Guess what, now your premiums have gone up because someone without insurance sued the brakes off your company.
No body is saying it's a right, they're talking about how to make things better. Some think we need to regulate them more so they don't abuse us, some see the past failed government regulation and don't want government regulation. Either way this is a forum for discussing things and that's what people are doing. Get off your high horse man.
I said shooting myself in the eye was stupid and I alluded to the fact that I wouldn't expect anyone else to pay for it by pointing out so obviously that it was stupid. I have insurance though so I used it. Go figure. There is no need to be rude.
Insurance protects people more than you think. If I didn't have insurance for my hand I would've sued the school, school conference, admin, AD, coaches, the other player (he was holding me as an offensive lineman), other team's coaches and ad, and anyone else i feel like. Falling and breaking my arm? School, PE teacher, the girls that were fighting that I went to go break up (I was a PE cadet), the police officers that were BS'ing with the school nurse about the fight, etc etc etc. You can bet your ass in this day and age I would've won too. Shooting myself in the eye would be harder, but it is VERY easy to get out of the insurance waivers the the field have. Guess what, now your premiums have gone up because someone without insurance sued the brakes off your company.
No body is saying it's a right, they're talking about how to make things better. Some think we need to regulate them more so they don't abuse us, some see the past failed government regulation and don't want government regulation. Either way this is a forum for discussing things and that's what people are doing. Get off your high horse man.
SemperFiUSMC
Master
- Jun 23, 2009
- 3,480
- 38
Seriously. Thick skin. Get some.
ghostinthewood
Sharpshooter
That definitely smells like you're calling someone out for being ungrateful.
Great job of proving you're not a rude.
I was quite obviously speaking hypothetically.Guess I should've used purple. I remember when I had to resort to name calling.
No, you seem to be acting like there is no reason to be having this discussion simply because its not a right. I very well could be reading your post wrong, this is the internet and that does happen. However, instead of elaborating you're choosing to resort to name calling.
In parts, my skin is as thick and hard as steel.
Most systems can be improved, but it's often difficult to tell which is the baby and which is the bathwater.
To use one of my favorite baseball analogies, if I don't know anything about baseball and I'm handed a team to manage, I might first look at their hitting statistics. In my ignorance, I might have a team in which every member of the lineup was hitting .333.
If I didn't understand baseball, I might think I have a terrible team. After all, they only get a hit every third time at bat! It ought to be easy to get them up to at least 50%, right?
One of the reasons our healthcare is expensive, is because it's so good, and so readily available, two things we take for granted. "Yeah, we got that, now let's tinker with the other stuff so there's no bad in the system at all."
Not saying there aren't things to fix, not saying we can't make it better. But when so many things about it aren't just good, they're fantastic, we should proceed with caution so we don't turn our team hitting .333 into a team hitting .250.
To use one of my favorite baseball analogies, if I don't know anything about baseball and I'm handed a team to manage, I might first look at their hitting statistics. In my ignorance, I might have a team in which every member of the lineup was hitting .333.
If I didn't understand baseball, I might think I have a terrible team. After all, they only get a hit every third time at bat! It ought to be easy to get them up to at least 50%, right?
One of the reasons our healthcare is expensive, is because it's so good, and so readily available, two things we take for granted. "Yeah, we got that, now let's tinker with the other stuff so there's no bad in the system at all."
Not saying there aren't things to fix, not saying we can't make it better. But when so many things about it aren't just good, they're fantastic, we should proceed with caution so we don't turn our team hitting .333 into a team hitting .250.
ghostinthewood
Sharpshooter
I think thats fair. I think that was part of the problem with Obamacare. I do believe (I'm going to get shot) that in the least, there were good ideas in there. However, when it was made as this giant political package the discussion got polarized. So instead of tort reform, medicaid/care reform, etc. it became the way things are vs socialism.
Perhaps not ungrateful, but unappreciative.
"Hey, how come this amazing drug that keeps me alive that never existed before until you people invented it that now allows me to live many more years and enjoy my life when in the past the disease would have relegated me to a painful death in less than a year - how come it's so expensive?"
Not saying the guy who posted earlier was saying that exactly, but that's the sentiment.
In parts, my skin is as thick and hard as steel.
You're young. Wait a few years and you'll be thanking that guy who invented the blue pill.
ghostinthewood
Sharpshooter
No I get that, similar to the lasik discussion earlier in the thread.
I was talking about my arm, but that post made me sad. At this rate I'll die beautiful anyway. =p
SemperFiUSMC
Master
- Jun 23, 2009
- 3,480
- 38
.That definitely smells like you're calling someone out for being ungrateful.
No, I'm saying that rather than focus on the negative focus on the goodness. Focus on the fact that without modern medicine most of us over 40 could not even have this conversation. And the fact that it's not the government that provides heath care. It's profit-minded individuals.
Great job of proving you're not a rude.
Seriously, when you do something stupid and tell someone they're not supposed to think or *gasp* even say it was stupid? That's not rude. It's also not coddling. I could tell a lot of stories where I did stupid things. I choose to keep most of them to myself.
I was quite obviously speaking hypothetically.Guess I should've used purple. I remember when I had to resort to name calling.
So saying what you said is a libtarded response is name calling? Here I just thought it was a characterization of your statement. Maybe I don't understand the difference. No wait. I do.
No, you seem to be acting like there is no reason to be having this discussion simply because its not a right. I very well could be reading your post wrong, this is the internet and that does happen. However, instead of elaborating you're choosing to resort to name calling.
Wrong. I'm pointing out the other side of the story. And I didn't call you or anyone else names. I suppose I'm a racist too.
In parts, my skin is as thick and hard as steel.
ghostinthewood
Sharpshooter
That's fine and dandy but that doesn't really help the discussion. As i pointed out, it seemed you were saying everyone was ungrateful as well. If you were going the route dross implied, it was kinda talked about the lasik jazz.
You acted rude. I said you were rude, and you're justifying it because I don't care what old people on INGO think of me? I didn't say you had the coddle, i didn't say you had to hold my hand, but there is no reason to talk down to me because you're self conscious.
I would disagree and say in that context its condescending.
In that post I conceded I could be wrong about what you're saying so...that.
Those are some of the easy ones to pick out. Most of your statements were condescending. I didn't, and have not, talked down to you man. I, even though you were acting hostile towards me, even gave you the benefit of the doubt. I don't understand why you can't do the same.
This is pretty much the spot on reason why obamacare is such a terrible idea. The government screws something up and then lots of people come crying to them to fix it by doing more of the exact stuff that screwed it up in the first place, whether in health care or banking.
ghostinthewood
Sharpshooter
I don't think because something isn't working doesn't mean you should abandon ship right away though. Edison didn't give up on electricity to get his light bulb to work, he just refined it.
Don't get me wrong, there is always a time to quit being stubborn but it seems for both Dem's/Rep's right now they want to take extremes one way or the other.
Don't get me wrong, there is always a time to quit being stubborn but it seems for both Dem's/Rep's right now they want to take extremes one way or the other.
Perfect example, because Edison kept trying to force DC and directed all his time and energy to that. All the while Tesla was telling him that AC was superior and he refused to listen. Edison ran smear campaigns, even going so far as inventing the electric chair in an attempt to discredit AC.
Guess what? Tesla was right the whole time and all Edison's attempts at putting a square peg through a round hole almost bankrupted all parties involved. As for government intervention in health care, it's not been working for 30-40 years and if we didn't print and borrow any amount of cash we want, it would've broken America already. It's time to let it go.
SemperFiUSMC
Master
- Jun 23, 2009
- 3,480
- 38
I'm still waiting for one person to articulate one reason why the government is involved in health care at all. I reject the premise that health care is a government function.
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