What's wrong with health care you ask?

[hornadylnl]

People don't perceive a lot of surgery as having advancements, so why lower the cost if you don't have to? The people don't know better.

I do think the less intrusive surgery costs have gone down though. They also involve lasers though..

I'm the kind of person that doesn't use money unless i have to or if I have it. I don't have a credit card and I've used my debit card twice. I sometimes have more cash than I do in the bank. However, I don't think having everyone save up for surgeries that can or can't wait is the best answer.

Yea, but what do we do with those people? Blacklist them? How strict would those rules be? I mean, I have a plate in my arm and I twisted it and its been hurting since so I went to the doctor. He said it was perfectly fine, but the cold was probably bothering it. I don't think that was unreasonable suspicion. I mean, I have a freakin plate in my arm, I don't know how its supposed to feel all the time. Haha. I mean I've had it in there for a couple years now, but I used to have pains that were almost unbearable(i wasn't taking the pain killers) and its only been recent that I've been back to "normal pain." Would I be blacklisted?

Don't get me wrong, i think a lot of those people are costing us, but is there a "good" way to deal with that?

Why do you have a plate in your arm?

 

[ghostinthewood]

Why do you have a plate in your arm?

I like to tell people I wrestled a bear.

The doc told me that its super uncommon they have to use a plate. Most of the time when old ladies fall down the stairs and break it the way I do they put a rod on either side of the break and tie a wire around to pull the pieces together. The reason they have to do that is because the break is near the elbow so the tricep muscle keeps part of the bone in one place while the other part moves around. So if I were to bend my elbow, the bone would jut outwards. However, I'm not an old lady and they said I'd snap the wires they'd had to use, so they put a plate over the break and drilled it in to my bones. I have mutton chops too so its great for costume parties and moshing.

tl;dr I'm Wolverine.

Those are staples, they've been out for almost 2years now. I've also fractured my back (weight lifting), spiral broke my 3rd carpal and weasled my way out of surgery for that one. I've also accidentally shot myself in the eye with a paintball gun when I was 16, had many concussions from HS football, and so on and so forth. And some of ya'll think you're old and broken....

Moral of my sob story (lol) I have experience with the health care industry. xD

 

[hornadylnl]

No, I meant how did you break your arm.

 

[ghostinthewood]

Welllllll like I said, I tell people I wrestled a bear.

In actuality, my foot got caught and i fell face first off the top of the bleachers at school and protected my face, hit the ground and rolled. I was fine til someone pointed out the "swelling", which was bone, in my arm. Ha.

Sorry seems that previous post gave you aay more info than you wanted. =p

 

[Bond 281]

I wasn't suggesting that we just start making people pay the incredibly high costs for surgeries out of nowhere. Moving towards people paying for their own health care with insurance only for catastrophic sorts of things would include tort reform, deregulation of health care, deregulation of drugs, and deregulation of insurance. High deductible insurance is a start to at least making people realize that health care isn't free. It's a commodity like any other service and it's absolutely not some god-given right like some people think.

 

[hornadylnl]

Welllllll like I said, I tell people I wrestled a bear.

In actuality, my foot got caught and i fell face first off the top of the bleachers at school and protected my face, hit the ground and rolled. I was fine til someone pointed out the "swelling", which was bone, in my arm. Ha.

Sorry seems that previous post gave you aay more info than you wanted. =p

I was asking to see if you did it by doing something stupid like skateboarding or something. Going in for a single checkup on something wouldn't qualify you for "the worried well" anyway.

My employer is a self insured company. What that means is that the company pays all claims and use a third party to administer it. I have a problem with the fact that my premiums are helping pay for my coworkers and their kids get hurt doing stupid stuff. If a coworker's kids thinks riding a skateboard off the garage roof and breaks his neck, should I be held responsible to help pay for that?

It would be very difficult for an employer to regulate something like that but I think they should. I'm not saying we should all live in a bubble and not have fun and take risks but common sense should come into play. I don't go snow skiing because I can't afford to miss time from work if I break my leg or blow my knee out. I just don't think a person should expect to share in your loss if you get hurt by a choice you made.

 

[Mike H]

Tort reform would be a good start but the Dems left that part out of Obamacare.

 

[ghostinthewood]

I was asking to see if you did it by doing something stupid like skateboarding or something. Going in for a single checkup on something wouldn't qualify you for "the worried well" anyway.

My employer is a self insured company. What that means is that the company pays all claims and use a third party to administer it. I have a problem with the fact that my premiums are helping pay for my coworkers and their kids get hurt doing stupid stuff. If a coworker's kids thinks riding a skateboard off the garage roof and breaks his neck, should I be held responsible to help pay for that?

It would be very difficult for an employer to regulate something like that but I think they should. I'm not saying we should all live in a bubble and not have fun and take risks but common sense should come into play. I don't go snow skiing because I can't afford to miss time from work if I break my leg or blow my knee out. I just don't think a person should expect to share in your loss if you get hurt by a choice you made.

Define stupid. I shot my eye, that was stupid. Playing football, statistically, is more stupid. Like I mentioned, i did a lot of damage to my body while playing. Concussions, broken hand, fractured back from weight lifting for football. Paintball, statistically as proven from polls of several insurance companies, is safer than bowling.

So, to some, my injuries from football wouldn't be acceptable since it was a risk I was knowingly taking. Socially though we know its almost honorable to get hurt during such a school sport.

*shrug* I think it's too much to be saying something is stupid, because anyone can say what you're doing is stupid. There is too much gray area for something like that I think. Just get a son and shove him down some stairs occasionally to get your money's worth. Tell him you're building character =p

Tort reform would be a good start but the Dems left that part out of Obamacare.

Wouldn't matter, the Rep's would've blocked it because they didn't introduce it first anyway.

 

[prostate]

Its a complicated issue but I can say my god father is a plastic surgeon in Bloomington, and is very good, but he quit for awhile because he was afraid of lawsuits. He wasn't so worried because he doesn't get threatened a lot with that jazz, but when he had kids his perspective changed. The economy went bad and he went back to doing it, but it would seem from his feelings there is a problem with frivolous lawsuits.

I can also say that my feelings towards healthcare don't fit the overall views of this forum, but I will say it's something that pisses me off right quick when stereotypes are thrown in, and I think I've proven myself to be reasonable.

My girlfriend and I have been dating for well over 2years now, and a lot of that was long distance. In Michigan she had a job, luckily, and was working hard to get a 2nd but we know how the economy has been up there. She had medicare. She moved down here to be with me, has a better job than she did in Michigan, and can't get anything. She found out she has gall stones and can't afford to talk to the surgeon, let alone have the surgery to remove the stones or the gall bladder. Everyone she talks to doesn't seem willing to help, or tells her she basically has to be pregnant to get any money from the state. I don't know how much of that is true, but thats what everyone at the hospital keeps telling us. I find it real ****ed up that its real easy to die for this country and people are more than willing to pay for it, but when we talk about saving our own lives it suddenly becomes a hot topic. She is not a freeloader and busts her ass more than a lot of people who ***** about freeloaders behind a computer do.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of things I don't like about the current healthcare bill, before anyone jumps me for that jazz.

This is just turning in to a rant though so I'll leave it at that. Especially since her mom told her she can get on her health insurance (after all this time) but I think my rant about future in-laws will be the longest thread on these forums =p

if she has medicare, she should be able to consult a physician without any problem. It becomes difficult to see a private practicing physician if she has medicaid

 

[ThrottleJockey]

They can not charge different prices based on whether or not you have insurance by law. When we have millions abusing the state welfare insurance, Dr.s included, charging whatever they can get the ins companies to pay it drives prices up for the rest of us often bringing rates to an unacceptable level. To make matters worse, insurance companies DON'T pay and hold out for collections to step in and then "settle" at a lower amount. Here's an anecdotal experience that adds fuel to the fire:
My wife and I were in a pretty bad car accident about 10 years ago. Her insurance covered all her expenses. When we received the itemized list of charges I noticed that the hospital billed the insurance company $50,000 for a heart valve (she had a broken collar bone). The insurance company paid it! When we pointed the error out to them they IMMEDIATELY dropped her coverage. Basically we caught them giving the hospital an illegal kickback and they didn't want trouble makers amongst their ranks. My mother is a Dr. and many other family members are health care professionals as well. When I began asking family and friends about this practice, it came to my attention that this is actually standard practice and VERY commonplace. The good ones get furious about it, but the AMA has their hands tied, the bad ones just shrug their shoulders and say mistakes happen then proceed to their mercedes to spend the rest of the afternoon at the country club. Additionally, George W Bush wrote the pharm companies a blank check for the prescription program and they take full advantage of it even going so far as to get Dr.s to loosely prescribe meds that are basically not necessary in order to "fund research".

 

[ghostinthewood]

if she has medicare, she should be able to consult a physician without any problem. It becomes difficult to see a private practicing physician if she has medicaid

Thats my point though, she's an Indiana resident and in Indiana the only way you can get help, from what I've seen and from what we've been told, is if you're pregnant. Seems the system is asking for problems..

Yea, I believe that its more of the kick backs and shady jazz that throttle is referring to than freeloaders, regulation, and illegals (common arguments i hear) that drive up prices.

 

[prostate]

I wasn't suggesting that we just start making people pay the incredibly high costs for surgeries out of nowhere. Moving towards people paying for their own health care with insurance only for catastrophic sorts of things would include tort reform, deregulation of health care, deregulation of drugs, and deregulation of insurance. High deductible insurance is a start to at least making people realize that health care isn't free. It's a commodity like any other service and it's absolutely not some god-given right like some people think.

your very correct. The declaration of our independence clearly states that our inalienable rights are "life", "liberty" and "the pursuit of happiness" --- Not healthcare, which is a commodity which everyone may or may not be required to purchase

 

[prostate]

Thats my point though, she's an Indiana resident and in Indiana the only way you can get help, from what I've seen and from what we've been told, is if you're pregnant. Seems the system is asking for problems..

Yea, I believe that its more of the kick backs and shady jazz that throttle is referring to than freeloaders, regulation, and illegals (common arguments i hear) that drive up prices.

Even if she has no insurance, she can get help from any emergency room. Based on the EMTALA rule, she cannot be refused care in any emergency room and if they determine that she needs her gallbladder taken out, then it will be done.

 

[prostate]

what the general public doesn't understand is that a physician could charge any amount he or she chooses. It really does not matter ,since insurance companies dictate the actual amount one is compensated for. It's like having your plumber come in fix a leaky faucet in your house and you tell the plumber how much you want to pay him and he has to do the job, no questions asked. Plus, if he screws up, you can sue him.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Even if she has no insurance, she can get help from any emergency room. Based on the EMTALA rule, she cannot be refused care in any emergency room and if they determine that she needs her gallbladder taken out, then it will be done.

The emergency room is required by law to stabilize you if your condition is immediately life threatening and nothing more, once stabilized, they can kick you out the door if they want to.

 

[Bond 281]

what the general public doesn't understand is that a physician could charge any amount he or she chooses. It really does not matter ,since insurance companies dictate the actual amount one is compensated for. It's like having your plumber come in fix a leaky faucet in your house and you tell the plumber how much you want to pay him and he has to do the job, no questions asked. Plus, if he screws up, you can sue him.

Well, I'm not sure how much all these physicians are raising prices. I do however know that medicare and medicaid don't pay hospitals and doctors more than a fraction of the actual costs. So when they do work out prices they have to pass on the bill for everyone else to foot. Yet another issue with health care.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

The AMA does a wonderful job of placing the blame on everyone else while not saying a word. For a cure to the health care situation, we need to look a bit more closely at them.

 

[dross]

It's a mistake to look for a villain when you look at high medical costs. It's a complex system and there are many factors that go into the cost. Not all of these factors are bad.

Some of the "bad" factors include excessive regulation and excessive litigation.

Other factors that go into costs are that we have treatments now that we didn't have before. Just a few years ago, certain types of injuries meant you spent the rest of your life with a limp. Now it might mean major reconstruction that allows you to run marathons again. This is expensive.

As to drugs, there is an important factor you must understand. If a drug country makes a new cold medecine that works well, it stands to make a lot of money. It can charge ten dollars for a bottle of pills and make plenty of money. Why? Because everyone gets a cold so their potential market for that drug is huge. They can recover their many millions of dollars of research and development, and their many millions getting FDA approval.

What about the drug they create for a more rare condition? Their market is potentially small. Maybe only 100,000, or even 1000 people have that condition at any one time. Yet it still costs millions to develop and get that drug to market. Many times they'll never recover their costs for that drug. To pay for it, drugs that have a larger market must carry a higher price. The more rare the condition, the more a drug is likely to cost, and the less likely that the drug company will recover their costs back on that drug.

You hear people say, "It only costs ten cents to make that pill, but they charge fifty dollars for it!"

The second pill off the assembly line migh cost ten cents to make. The first pill might have cost them ten million to make.

Another cost of medical care that many people don't know about is the cost shifting that medicare causes. Medicare tells doctors what they can charge for certain services. If, as is true with some treatments, medicare doesn't pay enough for that procedure, the doctor loses money every time he performs that procedure. That money has to be made up somewhere else, so some other procedure costs some percentage more to make up for that loss.

Don't believe anyone who points to one particular thing to blame for high medical costs. Many, many different factors go into that issue, and again, not all of the reasons medical care is expensive are bad.

 

[Bond 281]

Don't believe anyone who points to one particular thing to blame for high medical costs. Many, many different factors go into that issue, and again, not all of the reasons medical care is expensive are bad.

The only reasons that aren't bad just amount to the needs of companies, doctors, and hospitals to turn a profit. Nevertheless, cost shifting from medicare, for example, is a BAD reason for higher costs. The fault, though, isn't on hospitals that have to do it, but rather on the government programs and regulations that force them to do so to turn something close to a profit.

I say there IS a clear villain responsible for prohibitively high health care costs - the government. It has only been in response to the numerous government meddling I've described in the thread that we've seen increasing health care costs.

 

[dross]

The only reasons that aren't bad just amount to the needs of companies, doctors, and hospitals to turn a profit. Nevertheless, cost shifting from medicare, for example, is a BAD reason for higher costs. The fault, though, isn't on hospitals that have to do it, but rather on the government programs and regulations that force them to do so to turn something close to a profit.

I say there IS a clear villain responsible for prohibitively high health care costs - the government. It has only been in response to the numerous government meddling I've described in the thread that we've seen increasing health care costs.

I would agree with you that if there is a villain in this mess, it's government.