What is your threshold?

[Shay]

I spend a lot of my time teaching Force on Force. I find that students think they know when they should shoot someone up until the point where I put them in a situation and then they either shoot someone that doesn't need to be shot or don't shoot someone that does.

Can you share with me the point at which you think you would shoot someone?

 

[RogerB]

guess I'll be the lamb to slaughter, besides pride gets you no where

This is all with the assumption that I've already drawn my weapon.

I think if a person is not complying with my verbal commands to stop and show me their hands, and they are making a furtive movement or trying to pull something out. I would continue my verbal commands until I could get a glimpse of what they were pulling out.

If it looked like a gun or other weapon they could use at a distance I think I would then fire. Perhaps this is the wrong way to react, I don't know but this is what I think I would do. I know I need formal training, but this is just off the top of my head.

Next.....

 

[melensdad]

guess I'll be the lamb to slaughter, besides pride gets you no where

This is all with the assumption that I've already drawn my weapon.

I think if a person is not complying with my verbal commands to stop and show me their hands, and they are making a furtive movement or trying to pull something out. I would continue my verbal commands until I could get a glimpse of what they were pulling out.

If it looked like a gun or other weapon they could use at a distance I think I would then fire. Perhaps this is the wrong way to react, I don't know but this is what I think I would do.

I'd probably go along with all of that, but add that I am making the presumption that I have also been verbally threatened during some point in this confrontation.

My other thought is that there are different levels of PHYSICAL characteristics, skills and capabilities that also have to be taken into account. For example, a person who trains in martial arts and is physically fit will probably be able to deal with a threat somewhat different threat level than an old woman in a wheelchair who may be quicker to shoot in defense. At age 22 I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis and if I tried to throw a punch, and if it connected, then I would be on the ground in pain from the effects of the disease. . . consequently I might be more likely to shoot than to enter a physical confrontation. A slightly built woman approached in a dark parking lot may sense her life is threatened differently than a college football linebacker in the same situation so the small woman might be more likely to shoot than try to beat off her attackers.

 

[Shay]

I want this thread to be personal. I want to know YOUR threshold for shooting someone.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Maybe I'm off base here but in an out of my home situation I'm not sure I'll be pulling my gun untill I need to shoot it. I'm not sure of what scenarios I would pull first without following through? I have always wondered if the good guy has ever been shot by someone who didn't take the time to properly assess what was going on.

 

[Lars]

I've not taken a force on force class to know for sure, I do plan to fix that.

I do think if someone has entered my home, and I barricade myself at the top of the stairs. Warn them the police have been called and we are armed by yelling down the steps. Crossing the plane of vision, I'm very likely to shoot.

What I'm not sure of is if the gripping fear or stress of the situation would cause me to lock up..... Remembering back to my first Tae Kwon Do tournament I was shaking so bad I was amazed I could fight..... Until that first kick came flying at me. Then it was easy.

 

[strongcrow]

The way I was taught was to not point a gun at somebody you didn't intend to shoot and not to shoot someone unless you mean to kill. So with that said, if I'm pointing, I'm shooting. I won't pull the weapon to scare someone, so I would probably be shooting in retaliation to being shot, unless I had gone into condition red and was all but drawing before I get shot. Seems kinda silly to me to allow myself to get shot first, but...

 

[465guy]

I will shoot someone if I believe that person is going to do me grave bodily harm.

I will point a gun at someone if I think it might diffuse a very bad situation. For example someone has a knife and is at a distance where I have the chance to give a verbal command. I will draw and tell that person to stop. If that person doesn't stop I will shoot.

crow I think you need to rethink some things. If you are waiting for someone shoot at you before retaliating your chance to win a gun fight probably goes way down.

The way I was taught was to not point a gun at somebody you didn't intend to shoot and not to shoot someone unless you mean to kill. So with that said, if I'm pointing, I'm shooting. I won't pull the weapon to scare someone, so I would probably be shooting in retaliation to being shot, unless I had gone into condition red and was all but drawing before I get shot. Seems kinda silly to me to allow myself to get shot first, but...

 

[obijohn]

when i see a move to use a weapon , i'll shoot. that is my perception. will i make the correct call? don't know, but if i'm in my ooda loop, and i perceive a threat of severe bodily harm or death, i'll shoot.

and on a lighter note, quoting the great g-man, "run away screaming like a little girl, peeing down my leg..."

 

[strongcrow]

Yeah thanks 465guy upon rethinking things I would probably be in shock after being shot and would more than likely be out of the fight. I would probably draw upon percieving the threat of "fearing for my life" and shoot after not being " " listened to about ceasing the threatening behavior."" that way I would survive and be able to continue being a good "SHEEPDOG".

 

[Kirk Freeman]

When the instructor forces me to shoot. Otherwise I outta there.

 

[Shay]

When the instructor forces me to shoot. Otherwise I outta there.

And if you can't leave?

 

[SilentWarrior1]

This is where, for me, situation/mission will dictate. Situational Awareness plays a big part in this, so the constant scan would be essential. The ability to un-ass the area would take first and foremost... but if that's not possible then I have limited choices.

I could choose to draw down, but I honestly wouldn't want to do that unless absolutely necessary. I do have some hand-to-hand training, however it's very limited. Being that I'm pretty small in stature, that might not be possible to utilize. So, in an instance where someone has deadly weapon in hand other than firearm, I would refrain from drawing completely until they reach 25 ft. At which point, it would be "Danger Close" at which point firing for effect would become a viable option.

If it were firearm, I would immediately move to cover and draw as the playing field just got MUCH bigger. Trigger discipline would be key(as always... but even moreso in combat) , as civillian presence would play a factor, depending on population in the area.

The idea would be able to take the threat down quickly with minimal risk to civillian casualites.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Only when the threat forces me to do so.

I have a "beyond a reasonable doubt plus" standard.

 

[Sailor]

No FOF training yet for me either.

If I draw I am shooting. I guess I would draw if I felt threatened and could not retreat. Being that a person can be on you in 2 seconds from 25 feet, I am guessing I need to practice moving and shooting from retention.

 

[abnk]

To those who say that if they draw, they will shoot:

You are eliminating assessment completely and I think, that's a recipe for disaster for many reasons.

What will you do if you draw to shoot and the threat ceases? Shoot anyway?
What will you if you don't draw because the threat it not high enough to shoot, then it increases before you can draw and fire?

 

[bigcraig]

I would need to be in the "moment" to make a decision. Sure we can all give examples and quote our personal mantra on what we would do, but every situation is different.

For me there are no set guidelines, other than staying within the law, as I will do what I must to prevail. If that involves running like a schoolgirl or placing a shot in the "triangle of death", then thats what I would do.

 

[KDUBCR250]

If I was with the wife and my 3 kids Id be quicker to shoot because Im less worried about myself and more about them !

 

[Annie Oakley]

If someone is forcing their way into my house or car they are going to be shot. All other situations depend on how high my fear of being a victim or letting someone else who is minding their own business be a victim. If it seems serious enough then I shoot. Having been a road officer for a few years way back I know how quickly someone can cross a 25ft. it is not enough distance for me to feel safe if threatened.

 

[BloodEclipse]

To those who say that if they draw, they will shoot:

You are eliminating assessment completely and I think, that's a recipe for disaster for many reasons.

What will you do if you draw to shoot and the threat ceases? Shoot anyway?
What will you if you don't draw because the threat it not high enough to shoot, then it increases before you can draw and fire?

I think what others are saying as am I that we do our assessment before we draw and shoot. I will do everything I can to avoid using my gun without putting myself or others in jeporday. I'm not sure I'll be able to recognize a threat ceasing in the 2-3 seconds it takes to draw and shoot. The test for this by law is what would a reasonable person do?