Unsafe at any speed or Serpa Holster

[VERT]

Serpa’s are the “dump bucket” of the holster world. Tag line in the making right there.

 

[CraigAPS]

Where does the idea of it being unsafe come from? (serious question) Even a cursory search on Google brings up the Tex Grebner video and videos about the Guns & Ammo guy who nearly shot himself and the one guy who got his gun locked in the holster during a class. Unless there are a lot more, these are merely anecdotal, at best, and not the "end all, be all" of the holster. Other than these main three, I find a lot of people STATING that it's a horrible/dangerous holster, but no actual proof is provided. Yes, multiple highly regarded trainers have denounced it. If you use it and like it, great. If you don't because you think it's unsafe or just don't like it, fine. But the way that detractors scream and yell "You'll shoot yourself" or "You must be a damned idiot, it you use that holster!" is ridiculous and unwarranted without more evidence than "That one guy shot himself." Similar accusations have been levied at those who carry AIWB (you're pointing a gun at your johnson or femoral artery and COULD shoot yourself in a very, very bad place carrying that way). And, yet, many people still carry that way and vehemently defend that decision. I'm not saying that everyone has to like it, but show a little respect when you're giving your opinions!

 

[Gabriel]

I've never knocked the SERPA for the whole finger issue, although I can see where people have an issue with pushing in on the trigger finger while drawing.

I knock them because I've seen a gun stuck in the holster due to a couple pieces of debris in the mechanism. Before that two of my coworkers had the same issue at a shooting school getting sand down behind the button (they said the class was basically on a beach). I ditched mine after that and they tossed theirs.

I don't use a retention holster while not working and all of my work holsters are the ALS now. I suspect that I could get something to lock up that lever also if I tried, but I've never seen or heard of one malfunction like that from regular use.

I actually forgot that my Taser holster is a SERPA, but I carry it cross draw and don't draw it like I would a handgun (I push the button with the middle finger of my left hand and rotate it out of the holster with my thumb before reaching for it with my right hand). If it gets stuck, I'll go for the OC.

 

[bwframe]

I'm not ragging on the serpas or their users.

I will attest to seeing, with my own two eyes, at least two of them fail and lock up in classes.

 

[SSGSAD]

Have to admit I like mine and use it in fall and winter months. With all the negative press they get, how is it not safe for a 1911? If your finger indexes the slide, safety is on until your on target, what is the big deal? I do not see the issue?

The "secret", IS, Keep your index finger STRAIGHT !!!!!

People use the tip of their finger and that's when problems occur .....

 

[churchmouse]

OK. I wake up at 0-Dark-30 and see a member I respect basically calling me stupid. Directly....??? Most likely not but lumps in everyone that owns/uses one.
Any retention system is prone to issue in the right (wrong) conditions.
We’re those guys rolling in the sand on the beach...???? You guys are forcing me to do another non-scientific test with none certified pieces in unrealistic conditions with the help of some underqualified assistance.
I need to put this together. With lab coats and graph paper. Who has a couple of pocket protectors I can borrow. We will have to do this right.

 

[HoughMade]

Well, some people seem incapable of expressing an opinion without running everyone else down.

It's very 2018.

Other people here seemed able to express that they didn't like the holster without attacking the mental processes of others. C'mon people, politeness is so last century.

 

[Dead Duck]

Well, some people seem incapable of expressing an opinion without running everyone else down.

It's very 2018.

Other people here seemed able to express that they didn't like the holster without attacking the mental processes of others. C'mon people, politeness is so last century.

I agree with HoughMade....
We should just stick with telling lawyer jokes like the good old days.

 

[Anima mundi]

They do offer two models to the civilian market too; The CQC and Sportster. I wonder if those videos of them being torqued off of belts to demonstrate the cheapness are the Sportsters and not the good ones? The sportster is half the price and advertised as for casual/range use, whereas the CQC is advertised for EDC. I presume the CQC is fiber reinforced nylon, and the sportster is just simple plastic. Inquiring minds and all...

I have one of each, and outside of slight color variations, I cant tell the difference.

It's probably a marketing thing. The sportster only comes with the paddle and the CQC comes with both attachments. Really no difference in holster body design.

Anybody who apes the Serpa because for some reason they want active retention in a concealment holster, should probably take a look at the Pro-Fit GLS. I've never heard of the locking mechanism failing on one (and I've searched furiously) and mine has been fine in the two years of irreverent use to which I've subjected it. Still pretty flimsy because of its design, but the materials are a lot less brittle than the ones Blackhawk uses, which I imagine is why mine hasn't snapped apart on me yet despite getting caught on all kinds of things.

Chuck Haggard from the Primary and Secondary forums lays out the case against the Serpa better than I ever could:

[video=youtube;OY9VTenW5Ac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY9VTenW5Ac[/video]

 

[Vigilant]

OK. I wake up at 0-Dark-30 and see a member I respect basically calling me stupid. Directly....??? Most likely not but lumps in everyone that owns/uses one.
Any retention system is prone to issue in the right (wrong) conditions.
We’re those guys rolling in the sand on the beach...???? You guys are forcing me to do another non-scientific test with none certified pieces in unrealistic conditions with the help of some underqualified assistance.
I need to put this together. With lab coats and graph paper. Who has a couple of pocket protectors I can borrow. We will have to do this right.

Not to poke the bear, but rolling around in the gravel of a driveway, or gravelly asphalt of one of Indy’s stellar roads or parking lots isn’t really that unrealistic. No one can be 100% situationally aware 100% of the time, and it’s those times, when your guard is down, that the predator will attack and you may be forced to learn ground fighting in a hurry. That’s not the time to find out a lump of asphalt has just deadlines your up til then perfect holster. (Left out any mention of human nature to push buttons with fingertips and not pads.)

 

[churchmouse]

Not to poke the bear, but rolling around in the gravel of a driveway, or gravelly asphalt of one of Indy’s stellar roads or parking lots isn’t really that unrealistic. No one can be 100% situationally aware 100% of the time, and it’s those times, when your guard is down, that the predator will attack and you may be forced to learn ground fighting in a hurry. That’s not the time to find out a lump of asphalt has just deadlines your up til then perfect holster. (Left out any mention of human nature to push buttons with fingertips and not pads.)

Oh come on....you love and yes, I have been waiting for you...

 

[Vigilant]

Oh come on....you love and yes, I have been waiting for you...

Hey you know, got a couple of days home this week, so I have to try and make a run for the classy’s before my furlough ends and the guards come to take me back.

 

[churchmouse]

Hey you know, got a couple of days home this week, so I have to try and make a run for the classy’s before my furlough ends and the guards come to take me back.

Heck we are in Florida. I am getting my licks in when I can.

 

[Dead Duck]

Heck we are in Florida. I am getting my licks in when I can.

Well, that IS where old people go.

 

[Vigilant]

Heck we are in Florida. I am getting my licks in when I can.

Scoping out shuffleboard venues?

 

[Tactically Fat]

Those of us on this forum in general, and in this sub forum more specifically, and in this thread most specifically have things in common. We have chosen to mitigate risk to ourselves and our loved ones.

The "odds" of ever needing to use a defensive firearm are minuscule. Yet we still take steps to mitigate that risk. We purchase $500 + firearms. We then sometimes dump another $500+ into said firearm to make it more better. Then there's the cost of ammo. A case of 9mm is about $200 shipped to your door. Then there's range costs. Then there's training costs (You do train, right? RIGHT?) Why all this money and time spent? To further mitigate risk in the midst of minuscule odds.

So, since we here are supposed to be in the risk mitigation business, why purchase and use a less-than-stellar holster (Or belt, for that matter)? If there have been more than a few instances of sand stopping a holster from releasing the weapon - it doesn't make much sense to use that holster. If there are parts that sometimes break during rough training, it stands to reason that those parts may also break during a struggle.

Then there's the whole "they're not even really retention holsters" according to the testing that Bill Rogers devised. Look up his testing protocol. A Serpa won't pass that testing. Their attachments points are fragile. They can break by getting caught on a car's B-pillar as you exit. Why own a holster that's so fragile?

If you're serious about carrying a firearm, if you're serious about mitigating your own risk and that of your loved ones, why choose to utilize such a sub-standard platform?

I've seen "it's a training issue!" thrown around. So is learning how to use a Safariland ALS holster.

Carrying a firearm isn't a talisman. It's a tool. Using that analogy, Serpas are the flea-market junk tools.

They may work. May never have any issues. But that one time when you absolutely positively need that tool to work in an emergency roadside repair, are you going to bet on it? I choose not to bet on it.

Because I choose to mitigate my risk.

 

[lovemachine]

Heck we are in Florida. I am getting my licks in when I can.

Well, that IS where old people go.

IME, old people are out of touch with reality. That’s why they go to Florida and carry 1911’s. And they smell like moth balls.

 

[MarkC]

IME, old people are out of touch with reality. That’s why they go to Florida and carry 1911’s. And they smell like moth balls.

Hey, I represent that remark! I go to Florida every summer, and carry a 1911 (or a Sig P938, which is about, almost the same thing....). AND... the odor of moth balls dissipates off my clothes by about midday!

 

[rhino]

Those of us on this forum in general, and in this sub forum more specifically, and in this thread most specifically have things in common. We have chosen to mitigate risk to ourselves and our loved ones.

The "odds" of ever needing to use a defensive firearm are minuscule. Yet we still take steps to mitigate that risk. We purchase $500 + firearms. We then sometimes dump another $500+ into said firearm to make it more better. Then there's the cost of ammo. A case of 9mm is about $200 shipped to your door. Then there's range costs. Then there's training costs (You do train, right? RIGHT?) Why all this money and time spent? To further mitigate risk in the midst of minuscule odds.

So, since we here are supposed to be in the risk mitigation business, why purchase and use a less-than-stellar holster (Or belt, for that matter)? If there have been more than a few instances of sand stopping a holster from releasing the weapon - it doesn't make much sense to use that holster. If there are parts that sometimes break during rough training, it stands to reason that those parts may also break during a struggle.

Then there's the whole "they're not even really retention holsters" according to the testing that Bill Rogers devised. Look up his testing protocol. A Serpa won't pass that testing. Their attachments points are fragile. They can break by getting caught on a car's B-pillar as you exit. Why own a holster that's so fragile?

If you're serious about carrying a firearm, if you're serious about mitigating your own risk and that of your loved ones, why choose to utilize such a sub-standard platform?

I've seen "it's a training issue!" thrown around. So is learning how to use a Safariland ALS holster.

Carrying a firearm isn't a talisman. It's a tool. Using that analogy, Serpas are the flea-market junk tools.

They may work. May never have any issues. But that one time when you absolutely positively need that tool to work in an emergency roadside repair, are you going to bet on it? I choose not to bet on it.

Because I choose to mitigate my risk.

I think the best you can do is do your part to make sure that people are aware of the very real and potential shortcomings of the product. After you do that, it's their choice and additional criticism, especially when it's of the user and not of the product is often less than productive.

My rejection of SERPA predates the controversy over the lock failing. A friend of mine was issued one by Blackwater for his issued Glock 19 and as you mentioned, when he was leaving an SUV he brushed against the pillar a little too closely and found the holstered G19 on the ground, still tethered to him by a lanyard. He gave me that holster and I had a new belt attachment made for it as an experiment, but it was not a great success, so I threw it where old holsters go to die. I also won one for 1911 at a prize in a USPSA match, but after looking and feeling the crappy belt attachments, I got rid of it too. All of that happened before lock failing was a known issue, so for me it was a "Meh, it's not a good product anyway."

I will never recommend a SERPA to anyone. If asked, I will give my opinion and urge the person asking to choose differently. If they ask me what I think, I'll tell them without hesitating that they are junk and to get a new holster. If it's a friend and I think they are not an informed consumer, I will offer my opinion and experience. What I won't do is criticize and ridicule people who use them (for whatever reasons). It's not going to help anything.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I think the best you can do is do your part to make sure that people are aware of the very real and potential shortcomings of the product. After you do that, it's their choice and additional criticism, especially when it's of the user and not of the product is often less than productive.

My rejection of SERPA predates the controversy over the lock failing. A friend of mine was issued one by Blackwater for his issued Glock 19 and as you mentioned, when he was leaving an SUV he brushed against the pillar a little too closely and found the holstered G19 on the ground, still tethered to him by a lanyard. He gave me that holster and I had a new belt attachment made for it as an experiment, but it was not a great success, so I threw it where old holsters go to die. I also won one for 1911 at a prize in a USPSA match, but after looking and feeling the crappy belt attachments, I got rid of it too. All of that happened before lock failing was a known issue, so for me it was a "Meh, it's not a good product anyway."

I will never recommend a SERPA to anyone. If asked, I will give my opinion and urge the person asking to choose differently. If they ask me what I think, I'll tell them without hesitating that they are junk and to get a new holster. If it's a friend and I think they are not an informed consumer, I will offer my opinion and experience. What I won't do is criticize and ridicule people who use them (for whatever reasons). It's not going to help anything.

There are some right on comments here but IMHO if a person wants to be StreetWise they would not carry ANY plastic hoster on the street. I have seen too many fail. While they may present quicker and cleaner than leather, the compromise is not wort the risk.