UAW On Strike

[Hookeye]

Ignoring the cola issue, why should the profits of a company have anything to do with your wage. You are paid for your labor. So am I. This is determined by the benefit you provide to the company. This has nothing to do with profits. If my company has a bad year I still expect to get paid my agreed upon salary. If they have a great year I still expect to get paid my agreed upon salary.

The worker doesn’t assume the risk. The company and investors/shareholders do as they are the ones that provide the capital and means of production. That means sometimes they will reap the rewards but sometimes they will eat the losses.

Now I don’t begrudge anyone asking for a raise, but that’s not remotely the same as refusing to work unless demands are met. And it may surprise you I don’t have any issue with people going on strike either. I just think the company should be able to fire and replace them if they choose to. That’s how this is supposed to work.

Added incentive?
Profit sharing is based on hours worked.
So for some its a carrot ( to work the overtime ).

Ever worked in a factory?
Not everybody can handle the structure/environment.
It's different.

Age and wear and tear, some are content/limited to 40 hrs a week.
And a lot of younger folks play the FMLA crap.
So getting folks to volunteer to work overtime is a thing.

 

[Hookeye]

Which is the leftist view, collectivism or elitism? Sounds like a tossup these days.

I'm not sure where you are getting jealousy out of anything being said. I don't give a what anyone else makes. That goes for union, non-union, management, or executives. I worry about what I make and if I am happy with that, as well as the actual job I am performing. I stand on my own performance and reap the benefits of it.

Then it appears you don't have the union hate.
My post was in general, not forum thread specific.
There's lots of posting/talk elsewhere.

 

[Rookie]

Now I don’t begrudge anyone asking for a raise, but that’s not remotely the same as refusing to work unless demands are met. And it may surprise you I don’t have any issue with people going on strike either. I just think the company should be able to fire and replace them if they choose to. That’s how this is supposed to work.

I think it's a great idea too. I also think it would be hilarious if they tried that in our plant. Believe it or not, you can't walk in off the street and do the job our plant requires. There's more to casting than pushing a button or two. For example, how do you fix poor fill in a casting? Do you add lube or remove it? Do you add heat or remove it? Do you add radius to the die? Do you open the gates on the overflows or the runner? Do you increase or decrease shot velocity? Intensifier pressure?

All of this is learned over time, not straight off the street.

 

[bobzilla]

Which is the leftist view, collectivism or elitism? Sounds like a tossup these days.

I'm not sure where you are getting jealousy out of anything being said. I don't give a what anyone else makes. That goes for union, non-union, management, or executives. I worry about what I make and if I am happy with that, as well as the actual job I am performing. I stand on my own performance and reap the benefits of it.

This. Been in and around UAW a long time. They can **** off for all I care. They've cost more jobs and strife and done nothing but make themselves rich off the backs of others. Used to be the mob had it covered, but the UAW has pretty much taken over.

You (royal you) think I'm jealous? Nope. I've managed to do just fine as an "unskilled" worker providing for my family and nice retirement with no debt and I've never had to screw over anyone to do it, never had to "strike" or be laid off because of stupidity.

 

[Shadow01]

But the government will not allow U.S. auto manufacturers to go out of business.

Because of poor voting choices. No business should be protected from failing by the government

 

[bobzilla]

Added incentive?
Profit sharing is based on hours worked.
So for some its a carrot ( to work the overtime ).

Ever worked in a factory?
Not everybody can handle the structure/environment.
It's different.

Age and wear and tear, some are content/limited to 40 hrs a week.
And a lot of younger folks play the FMLA crap.
So getting folks to volunteer to work overtime is a thing.

Folks were laid off a year before retirement from a UAW supplier factory in 21. Leading up to that they were forcing 7 day work weeks and 12 hour shifts as mandatory for 21 days at a time. The only way you could get away from that was FMLA (which my folks had to, mid 60's you aren't working 12 hour days in a non-ac factory 21 days straight before getting 2 days off and then another 21 days). It was a **** company and the Union did jack **** to help those employees. They would have "meetings" with union reps and management and everyone would leave all happy and then nothing changed because the UAW "saw nothing wrong". They would "address it the next time contract negotiations came up and then never did.

I worked there before it became union. Company hire a lot of fresh people in an effort to sway the union vote. The workers voted in the UAW and the company laid off all the new hires the following day. 61 days employed. Best thing that ever happened to me to be honest.

 

[Hookeye]

LOL

I remember a couple Teamster officials showing up at a facility 40 yrs ago.
Caddy and a Lincoln, big fat guys w rings on all fingers.
Thought union and mob were just two names for the same thing.

 

[bobzilla]

LOL

I remember a couple Teamster officials showing up at a facility 40 yrs ago.
Caddy and a Lincoln, big fat guys w rings on all fingers.
Thought union and mob were just two names for the same thing.

went "legit"

 

[Hookeye]

Folks were laid off a year before retirement from a UAW supplier factory in 21. Leading up to that they were forcing 7 day work weeks and 12 hour shifts as mandatory for 21 days at a time. The only way you could get away from that was FMLA (which my folks had to, mid 60's you aren't working 12 hour days in a non-ac factory 21 days straight before getting 2 days off and then another 21 days). It was a **** company and the Union did jack **** to help those employees. They would have "meetings" with union reps and management and everyone would leave all happy and then nothing changed because the UAW "saw nothing wrong". They would "address it the next time contract negotiations came up and then never did.

I worked there before it became union. Company hire a lot of fresh people in an effort to sway the union vote. The workers voted in the UAW and the company laid off all the new hires the following day. 61 days employed. Best thing that ever happened to me to be honest.

I don't trust unions, or corporations.

 

[bobzilla]

I don't trust unions, or corporations.

If they have people, I do not trust them. I have determined that in general I hate people. I don't mind individual persons here and there but people can **** all the way off.

 

[Shadow01]

Fain is saying 3 months, I am interested to see how many employees can survive on $500 a week (that has to be taxed so more like $300~). Healthcare won't strangle them out as the strike fund covers that apparently.

For reference the USW got basically 15%~ over life of contract, Rail Road got 24% over life of contract and Teamsters got basically the same at 23% over life of contract (and the teamsters had a much better strike position IMHO). Current offer from Ford is 20% I believe, current "union" members in a battery plant in Kentucky make $21 an hour for reference as well.

My father was UAW. We always had a months worth of can goods at home just in case and 5 months of income set aside to cover monthly bills. He never relied on strike pay to be available . Even had a couple of summers we skipped vacation to save for strike. Not all save though. Longest he was out was 13 weeks 2 different contracts to keep fully paid insurance. I was CWA for 25 years and we had 1 strike for 4 days, but I always had 6 months of reserve saved to pay bills. I now work nonunion and am treated better than I ever was as a union member. Pay is slightly less, but all around better treated by the company.

 

[Hookeye]

George Carlin had a saying about people forming groups, any group.
Be it a clique in the office or a union.
Some understand the prevalent herd instinct and take advantage of it.
IMHO the best at doing that become politicians.

 

[KLB]

Notice that every single number has a plus sign if it increased. The last number doesn't have a plus sign.

I do, but I read it as it ONLY went up that much compared to how much everything else went up. It doesn't make sense to have that number be a totally different metric than all of the rest.

 

[Hookeye]

I look at union members as being the little people.
What the game is? Who knows.
They're just trying to make a living and raise a family.

 

[STAGE 2]

View attachment 299530

In case you missed this, I'll bump it again. Union labor is 5% of the cost of a vehicle. So convince me, why are we the problem?

You’ll excuse me if I don’t take that as gospel since we already have other economic articles which are complete fabrications. The bottom line is that increases in wages, pensions and healthcare cost money and that is always paid for by the consumer.

 

[sadclownwp]

View attachment 299530

In case you missed this, I'll bump it again. Union labor is 5% of the cost of a vehicle. So convince me, why are we the problem?

Looks like union propaganda to me. Doesn't look like any kind of financial breakdown that would even back how the labor cost per vehicle is only 4-5 percent.

 

[bobzilla]

I've been there, family that worked under the UAW for 20 years. Laid off with nothing to show. They were merely "suppliers" for the big names but still UAW.

Ford average non-skilled assembly line worker makes $27/hour. They get an automatic 4 weeks vacation, 16 paid holidays and a very generous matched 401k. The proposed UAW increase would make that same unskilled labor almost $36/hour, paid for 40 but only working 32. That's just short of $20k per year per employee increase. They have around 57k assembly line employees, that means just in salary alone they will pay an additional $1 Billion dollars every year. Add in the 401k matches, that's an additional $200+ Million dollars. All in they will be out $1.3 Billion dollars, but getting 80% of the work out of the same employees.

So now they have to hire an additional 20% of the working staff to cover the hours that now aren't being worked, increasing those numbers even more. So now we are looking at an additional $840 Million dollars in salary and another $40Million in 401k, and we aren't even discussing healthcare.

So what the UAW is expecting is that FoMoCo can just absorb $2.1 Billion in extra costs, or 9% of their total profit last year, or 15% of their profits from 2020. What publicly traded company would ever agree to take a double digit loss in profit?

Just to reiterate here. We are talking about well over 2 BILLION dollars per year for NEW labor costs. Tell me how that is only 4% of vehicle costs again? This isn't even addressing the CURRENT cost of labor they have.

If you really believe 4-5% is labor than boy do I have a deal for you on a bridge for sale.

 

[Ingomike]

The “big 3” killed off compact cars and sedans and went after higher margin trucks and SUVs. Post COVID they decided to focus on production on fully loaded models. Go price a base 4x2 F-150 work truck…$40k+!

The government killed off the cars with stupid CAFE standards…

 

[bobzilla]

OK, lets do this again. In 2015, Ford labor costs averaged out to $60/hour for the 173k employees nationwide. We already know that around 57k of those are assembly line workers. That $60/hour figure in 2015 works out to $21Billion dollars.

In 2015 Ford sold 2.6 million cars, so that means that each car sold in 2015 had $8300 in labor. The average transaction price for a ford product in 2015 was $32k. So in 2015 labor costs PER VEHICLE from Ford was 25%.

Hell, Even the UAW admits that they were paying $56/ hour in 2014. So 4-5%? Pure propoganda that the union bois ate up like candy.

 

[Rookie]

Looks like union propaganda to me. Doesn't look like any kind of financial breakdown that would even back how the labor cost per vehicle is only 4-5 percent.

I've seen the same figures from other news sources that aren't union propaganda. Feel free to prove me wrong.