Taking Kids to the Range

[lrahm]

It sounds like you have a passion for the sport more than just running a business. The passion keeps you going and keeps yougoing back each day. The "Nasty Gram" person obviously couldn't see that. +1 for you.

 

[db1959]

You were more than generous. I wouldnt worry about that moron. Chances are he acts like that around his friends and other people and they will dismiss any bad PR.

Rep inbound 'cause you done good!

 

[IndySSD]

Your range, your rules, your prices. If he asks and you tell him the price he has a choice now doesn't he? you gave him his option and he left. he needs to grow up and set a better example for his kids.

^^ Pretty much this ^^.


From a "user" point of view, I can see how one would think that renting "X" space for "Y" time would be XY price regardless of how many people are using X space for Y time. IE: If you're renting a 2 BR home for 700$ a month, you wouldn't expect the rent to go up because you and your wife have kids or take on a roomate.... it's all in the "contract" which would be what your posted price list is.




But like stated before, your place, your rules and I think the Emailer is overreacting and setting a bad example for his kids by acting this way.

 

[GuyRelford]

I honestly didn't know what to expect when I posted this thread - I felt like I'd treated the man fairly, so I was very surprised when I got the hostile email from him after he left. For someone to be that angry, I honestly questioned whether I'd treated him wrongly.

The comments here have meant a lot to me. We LOVE having kids at the range, and I hope everyone understands that we'll go very far out of our way to make bringing your kids to ECPR a safe, fun, educational and affordable experience.

And I'm always willing to reexamine our pricing structure, because I certainly understand the "one lane/one price" issue. The feedback from INGO has been outstanding.

Thanks again.

Guy

 

[hoosierdoc]

People nowadays have unrealistic expectations. It's not a buffet where kids eat free. Kids are people, though a bit smaller. You offered him a 75% discount, that ain't bad. I know they were small and shooting airsoft, but you're renting space, not a philanthropist.

Our society has become so entitled and demanding of everything free and immediate that it makes me sick. Any amount of pain requires immediate narcotics, all social or financial situations should be solved by others, and how dare you suggest I do something to improve my own life, it's YOUR fault. OK.... I'm done.

Guy, thanks for the cathartic opening (sorry to potenially thread-jack). You are fine, people are unreasonable and you don't want/need his business.

 

[jedi]

u r a conservative, anti-obama nazi! how dare u charge him for his kids! you should of provided him 2 lanes free of charge, an assortment of your own guns and ammo, allowed them to stay for as long as they may have needed, clean up after them and provided them with a meal to the std. of what the .gov says is needed. Also made sure it was peanut and diary free since you don't know if they have allergies to it and it would be RUDE of you to ask them about it and make them feel singled out. I 4 1 will never visit your range because of what u did to them!

It's a business he does not like your rules he can GTFO and spend his money somewhere else.

entitlement mentality my

 

[indytechnerd]

So, what you guys (not TFT) are saying is that children are just like adults, only smaller, and therefore should be treated in the same way?

So you'd be ok if I brought my son (who is 8), paid $20 for him to shoot his own lane and turned him loose?

 

[hoosierdoc]

So, what you guys (not TFT) are saying is that children are just like adults, only smaller, and therefore should be treated in the same way?

So you'd be ok if I brought my son (who is 8), paid $20 for him to shoot his own lane and turned him loose?

Not at all. You have a responsibility to chaperone those who are unable to provide their own safety. Whether a child, mentally handicapped, or any other reason.

That being said, if you are shooting, and you are a person, the posted rate applies. They should be treated the same way from a cost/person standpoint. If you bring a dog, no charge. If you bring a baby in a carseat (shame on you), no charge. If you bring an apple, no charge. If you bring a child who shoots, CHARGE. I would be annoyed if my wife wanted to watch, shot one round, and was charged as a shooter. I would not be irritated if I paid for her to shoot, she chose not to, and I did not get a refund.

 

[indytechnerd]

That being said, if you are shooting, and you are a person, the posted rate applies. They should be treated the same way from a cost/person standpoint.

So why not charge an admission at the door, regardless of whether they're shooting? A person is a person whether they stand around the line, shoot their cricket rifle once, or burn 3 boxes of .500 S&W, right?

If you bring a dog, no charge. If you bring a baby in a carseat (shame on you), no charge. If you bring an apple, no charge. If you bring a child who shoots, CHARGE. I would be annoyed if my wife wanted to watch, shot one round, and was charged as a shooter. I would not be irritated if I paid for her to shoot, she chose not to, and I did not get a refund.

This is where I think the difference is. Your wife, in my opinion, would be considered an independent shooter, whether you load all the mags and rack the slide for her or not. A child, particularly one in the single-digits age range, is not an independent shooter. Maybe he shoots one mag, maybe he shoots all day. Either option, and I'm most likely in physical contact with him every squeeze of the trigger. So, the question is, do we put your wife and my son into the same classification, and from that, am I getting a value equivalent.

I see this issue in other areas as well. Golf is notorious for it. My son, who would love to ride in the cart and maybe hit a dozen shots must still pay the $33 green fee at Southern Dunes where I live. Doesn't make sense to me. Similarly, he's not even allowed on the course at Orchard Golf unless he's carrying a bag with at least 3 clubs. As above, it becomes a value equation...am I getting $x value? Most of the time, the answer would be no.

To expand...
Current rate (from TFT's ECPR webpage): $20/hour for 2 shooters on 1 lane.

This implies a 2 shooter maximum for 1 lane. So, my family of 4 drops $40 for 1 hour. Consider a matinee movie @ AMC, we'll spend $20 on tix, and another $25 on snacks. $45 for 90mins vs. $40 for 60mins (and that's without the cost of the ammo shot).

Disclaimer: An offer of an extra $5 is VERY generous, Guy, and I would have jumped on that immediately.

As an alternative...
I would propose determining the cost for additional shooters based upon that additional shooter. Note: the age of 12 is just an example, it can be 10, 13, 15, whatever.

1st shooter = $15/hr
Additional shooter (12 and up) = $10/hr*
Additional shooter (11 and under, when accompanied by parent/guardian) = $5/hr**

* - 2 shooters max per lane
** - 3 shooters max per lane, shooter must be directly supervised by parent/guardian at all times

*** 1000 posts ***

 

[indytechnerd]

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, but lately I've seen a lot of "sure kids are allowed... [sotto voce] just not when I'm here" in a number of places and it gets old.

 

[85t5mcss]

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, but lately I've seen a lot of "sure kids are allowed... [sotto voce] just not when I'm here" in a number of places and it gets old.

Not ranting, but whenever I have visited ECPR and Guy was in the bay I have noticed him speak and help coach children. Speaks with parents and in general has made every experience there a pleasure. It's not just him, either. I have spoke with other ROs as well. This is why I will keep going back.

And when I took my daughter (young teen) he had spoken with her and it made her feel good that a "girl" and "young" was accepted. She also saw some other children there with parents and some were younger than her easily. Made for a very nice Father/Daughter time.

No-I do not work for ECPR or even know Guy or the ROs. Just fond of the establishment and how it is run. In a way I am glad I had never been until this year. This is TFTs first year running it.

With that said I am of the impression that if anyone is going to the range, then they will be shooting. While I do enjoy standing back and watching someone learn I do not think it would be enjoyable just to watch someone shoot a couple hundred rounds. Could just be me, though.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Too bored to continue the debate. I said the guy was an idiot for being mad at a 75% discount for kids. I'm not even sure we're disagreeing technerd. As an olive branch, I'm buying two 1tb SATA 6Gb/s drives to do raid1 on my new windows 7 machine.

 

[wolfman]

To expand...
Current rate (from TFT's ECPR webpage): $20/hour for 2 shooters on 1 lane

Sorry, but if you are going to quote a source, it would be helpfull if you quoted correctly.
The rate is NOT $20/hour as you stated in your post, but, there is a 1 hour pass, at a cost of $20 for 2 shooters on the same lane.

ECPR does not charge hourly rates, although for those shooters that do not want to stay for an extended time period, single hour passes are available at reduced rates.

Here is the actual rate structure as copied from the TFT ECPR page, notice there is a 1 hour pass, but no hourly rate structure.

Pricing will be as follows:

Full season pass (unlimited visits): $120
Ten-visit pass: $75
Single all-day pass: $25
All day pass (2 shooters on lane): $40
One-hour pass: $15
One-hour pass (2 shooters on lane): $20

 

[Darral27]

I live in Elwood and have recently signed up at the conservation club. The rate there is 65 for a one year pass and your immediate family is included. It is a outdoor range and can't imagine there is much overhead but the couple times I have been there so far I have had fun. I do love shooting. My plans for this weekend is to take the 11 year old step daughter out and let her try out a couple of the 22's. I am excited about it. Love the shooting ranges.

 

[jon]

I am thinking he either really didn't want to shoot with the kids, and you gave him the excuse not to or, he is plain stupid and you are better off not having him there anyway. Either way, too bad for the kids.

 

[indytechnerd]

Sorry, but if you are going to quote a source, it would be helpfull if you quoted correctly.
The rate is NOT $20/hour as you stated in your post, but, there is a 1 hour pass, at a cost of $20 for 2 shooters on the same lane.

ECPR does not charge hourly rates, although for those shooters that do not want to stay for an extended time period, single hour passes are available at reduced rates.

Here is the actual rate structure as copied from the TFT ECPR page, notice there is a 1 hour pass, but no hourly rate structure.

Pricing will be as follows:

Full season pass (unlimited visits): $120
Ten-visit pass: $75
Single all-day pass: $25
All day pass (2 shooters on lane): $40
One-hour pass: $15
One-hour pass (2 shooters on lane): $20

So, am I allowed to buy multiple 1hr passes? Or does Guy come around 59 mins into my shooting and let me know my time is up? Is it like a tee-time, where I call in and am scheduled to start at 9:37am?

I apologize for summarizing the last line of the rate. I think that, in the context of the discussion, what I had done would be obvious. I guess not. Carry on.