Sub gun modification questions

[Chipslinger]

If I purchased a sub gun like a Mac10, Sten, MK760 etc... could I make adapters or permanent modifications for a stock, quad rail, forward grip? I was looking at the MK760 and Sten and was wondering if a CAR stock adapter could me mounted along with a quad rail. Could I make parts and set it up the way I want? I do not know the legalities.... I like the price on the entry level sub guns but really do not like the looks or ergonomics of some of them. If I buy an auto it will be a shooter and not so much an investment and would like to set it up to suit me. I have the tools and machinery and would rather make parts myself than buy them.

Thanks, Jeff

 

[curraheeguns]

If I purchased a sub gun like a Mac10, Sten, MK760 etc... could I make adapters or permanent modifications for a stock, quad rail, forward grip? I was looking at the MK760 and Sten and was wondering if a CAR stock adapter could me mounted along with a quad rail. Could I make parts and set it up the way I want? I do not know the legalities.... I like the price on the entry level sub guns but really do not like the looks or ergonomics of some of them. If I buy an auto it will be a shooter and not so much an investment and would like to set it up to suit me. I have the tools and machinery and would rather make parts myself than buy them.

Thanks, Jeff

Yes, you can make changes.

The only thing you might want to do is that if the change will be a "forever after" change like caliber or over all length you should notify ATF in writing so the registry can be updated.

 

[shooter521]

I was looking at the MK760 and Sten and was wondering if a CAR stock adapter could me mounted along with a quad rail.

There are already CAR stock adapters available for the SW76/MK760 type guns; no need to fab up your own. And yes, it's legal.

 

[Chipslinger]

The only thing you might want to do is that if the change will be a "forever after" change like caliber or over all length you should notify ATF in writing so the registry can be updated.

I would have to notify the ATF of permanent alterations.

There are already CAR stock adapters available for the SW76/MK760 type guns; no need to fab up your own. And yes, it's legal.

COOL! I have not done a lot of looking around. I figured they were accessories out there.



Could the gun be converted to shoot .22lr? If so I assume the ATF would have to be notified?? I am looking for a gun that could shoot .22lr for the cost factor. I have seen some Macs for sale that have conversions to shoot .22lr.

I bought a Tac65 and now seem to have the NFA bug. Do you guys have a recommendation for an entry level sub gun? I would like to keep the initial purchase under 4k. I like the Macs for their size but I think I could make a MK760 or a Sten look and feel good to shoot also. It will be a shooter so it will get used. I did not know about maintenace or modifications to make them more durable and reliable.

 

[curraheeguns]

Could the gun be converted to shoot .22lr?

If you are asking if someone makes a conversion kit (.22) for the S&W or MK, I am not sure. I do know that several kits are made for the Mac series. Including one that Richard Lage is about to introduce that has been engineered and reengineered by an absolute master of design (Richard himself.) You can see some awesome videos of it on his sight and on youtube.

If you are asking is it legal to use a conversion kit on a machine gun the answer is yes.

You should also consider an Uzi, they are a little more for the initial investment but several .22 conversion exists for them also and many Mac buyers find themselves "upgrading" to an Uzi in short order.

Just a suggestion. Anyway you go it will be kick ash!

 

[alfahornet]

I'd follow curraheeguns advice and look into registered receiver Uzis. On the upside they're fun to shoot, fairly controllable and fairly diverse. Plus they're pretty robust and plenty of spare parts and accessories are available. On the downside: They're upwards of 6K.

 

[Chipslinger]

I'd follow curraheeguns advice and look into registered receiver Uzis. On the upside they're fun to shoot, fairly controllable and fairly diverse. Plus they're pretty robust and plenty of spare parts and accessories are available. On the downside: They're upwards of 6K.

That's what I was wondering. If a cheaper entry level gun would hold up. It might need some upgrades and modifications that would put me up to the price of a better SMG. I am a bit of a tight wad and did not want to spend a lot on the initial purchase. That why I was asking about making my own parts... to save some coin and.

 

[alfahornet]

Uzi vs Mac. I saw this interesting comparison on subguns and figured I share it here. It is obviously biased in favor of the Uzi but I thought an interesting read. If you follow the links you can see responses at subguns.net

A couple of years ago I was in the same boat

I went with the Uzi for a few reasons -
It was debugged in actual battle usage for an extended time.
It had a rep of being boringly reliable, and for my first NFA item I did not want the 'fun' of endlessly screwing around trying to make something run, I just wanted the thing to run, period. ;-)
Parts sets were still available, and while they are nothing like they used to be where once Shotgun News had multiple different ads in each issue, DSA, Vector, Sarco, etc., still have parts and Sarco still has complete kits.
Easily replaced barrel.
If you get a Vector gun, you still have the manufacturer in business today for warranty work, if not, well, there are still a number of Uzi experts out there if anything needs to be done.
Mags are still cheap, I just saw an ad for new surplus IMI 25 rounders for $10 each, and the mags are easy to load (double stack/double feed) by hand and are very reliable, even used in modified form in other guns.
.45, .22, etc. conversions are available. Subguns Ordnance is making a .22LR converions and Blackdog is making .22 mags, so cheaper shooting is possible. Have also seen other calibers like .41, .40S&W, etc.
Optics are possible, see uzitalk.com forums for a couple different types.
The Vector vertical front grip is nice, and integrates well into the guns looks.
The Uzi is a classic design.
It is a bit larger than a MAC buzz gun, with an actual foreend to hold on to, and the fixed and folding factory stocks are sturdy and functional, making it to my mind a bit safer for novices to be trained on.
The factory rate of fire is slow enough single or double rounds per trigger pull are easy enough to do, and does not eat up cases of ammo too fast in this day and age of higher ammo prices even in 9x19, although as others mentioned a simple cheap buffer behind the bolt can speed it up if desired, which so far I have refrained from doing. ;-)
The safety / fire selector is in a convenient place, easy to access and manipulate.
The Uzi grip safety on an open bolt SMG could be a lifesaver if, say, someone dropped your gun with a loaded mag in place.
You can get German army surplus grips in excellent to seemingly new surplus condition for $69 the last I looked at Centerfire, which is most of the moving parts, leaving little more than the bolt/recoil spring/top cover type stuff for most moving spare parts to worry about.
If you look around, you can find top cover assemblies very cheap. Under $10 I have still seen lately.
The receiver stamping is pretty thick, looks like it was meant to last for quite a while.
The factory fixed and folder stocks swap out easily enough, and the folder locks up pretty solid, and folds very small.

 

[harrissr]

the sten will last a life time. it is slow shooting with a very heavy bolt. controlable . they also made a lightened bolt that make them run fast if you want . we are about 90% finished on offering a .22 conversion for the sten. the m11 or m10 are also great entry guns . my 1st class 3 was an origional powder springs mac in .45 with a 9mm conversion. i kept it for 30 years and it always ran , and ran everything. i since have picked up an m11 and have it in a lage conversion with an ace folding stock and red dot sight . i have had the uzi,s and they are great but i would just as well have the lage especially with his .22 conversion as we are getting ready to release an am180 drum adapter for his gun that will increase the capacity to 275 rounds of .22. we just released the .22 adapter for the uzi .22 conversion at knob creek. that unit will be handled only thru the maker of the new uzi .22 conversions ; subgun ordance. these enty level smg's are still winning subgun matches against every other subgun out there no matter what the cost. don't apologise if you have one of these !

 

[mms]

^^^^can i ask who we is that is making the sten conversions ??
i think they would be awesome and make a sten worth considering as a first mg

 

[harrissr]

a and d enterprises in kokomo. the majority of our products are handled thru our main distributor , bazookabrothers.com in russiaville, in. if we decide to go into production on the units i will post here and info and videos will be posted on bazooka.

 

[mms]

cool thanks hope it works that would be awesome