Street Robberies and You

[cosermann]

I stumbled across this article in 2017 ...

Posted on ARFCOM in Feb of 2012 (for the historically minded).

 

[MuttX7]

OP thanks for posting this, gives a lot of food for thought. I looked up Coopers book referenced, it looks to be out of print and very expensive to get copies on ebay and amazon. I wonder what year this was originally written, with all the attacks on motorists in cars these days that opens up another avenue of self protection thought.

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[cedartop]

I was fortunate enough to take a couple of classes with probably the foremost expert in this area of our time, the late William Aprill. The following video covers some of this but not nearly as much as he covered in class. It is a very informative video though the hosts get a little too much look at me.



Fortunately William got a lot of his information on video before he passed,

https://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/article/williamaprill/

 

[Born2vette]

It is available in the Gunsite pro shop:

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If you have a Kindle or device with the kindle app its $8.50 in the Amazon Kindle store

 

[wcd]

Cliff notes version: loss of Humanity is not something to take lightly.

 

[Nazgul]

"He has to get used to seeing others as objects for him to exploit. He has to accept he may be killed while robbing. He has to accept the felony conviction for Robbery will haunt him all his life. He has to accept he may need to kill a completely innocent person to get away with his crime."

My 26 years on the streets of Indy taught me that most, if not all, thugs and/or holdup men don't have the mental capacity to grasp these concepts until they get caught. This stuff may come out in a post-arrest interrogation but is highly unlikely to cross their mind before that. The answer to a question which starts with "Did you ever think about................" is probably BS.

This is the source of the issue in my opinion. Spent a lot of time with a friend who was a detective picking his brain about interviewing murder/robbery suspects. I have a hard time with how someone crosses the line where a life is not important. I understand self defense, but to take a life for momentary gain is beyond my understanding.

I posted in another thread some friends and I were at a gunshow in Louisville New Years eve when a shooting occurred . No more than 8' away from the victim. They shot into a crowd of women and children. Still confused on how you get to the point you shoot at innocent people to hopefully hit one guy. Why not catch him alone if you are determined to do this?

Good article.

Don

 

[cosermann]

… I have a hard time with how someone crosses the line where a life is not important. …

… Why not catch him alone if you are determined to do this?

Sometimes, it’s enough to know, 1) they don’t think like we do, and 2) they have their reasons.

 

[Alamo]

I understand self defense, but to take a life for momentary gain is beyond my understanding.

Still confused on how you get to the point you shoot at innocent people to hopefully hit one guy.

Don

You (and everyone else) should read Rory Miller’s writings, particularly Meditations on Violence and Conflict Communications.

He does an excellent job of describing the predator mind-set and dealing with it.

He was a prison guard who is smarter than your average bear. He took what he learned from violent prisoners and married it with what he learned in psychology courses and martial arts to develop a functional way to think and deal with people who want to hurt you. He’s not an academic, and not a neanderthal (with apologies to neanderthals). He led a prison tactical that was called him and the regular guards had problems with an inmate who was violent. And he can write clearly.

Fun fact: His Confict Communications book started out as a seminar he would give it to cops on how to deal with people on the street, to be able to spot when an interaction is about to go south. He described communications patterns that people use without thinking about them – – Scripts – – and how if you click on to them you can predict what the outcome is likely to be. After the seminar cops were coming up to him and saying “hey my police department organization works like this never mind the street” So he study some more and realize that the communication patterns and scripts were fairly universal, just that on the street some of them ended up in direct violence. It’s well worth the read.
Anyway, if you think the text in the original post is useful (and I do, I remember reading it years ago), then you should also read Rory Miller

 

[grillak]

"He has to get used to seeing others as objects for him to exploit. He has to accept he may be killed while robbing. He has to accept the felony conviction for Robbery will haunt him all his life. He has to accept he may need to kill a completely innocent person to get away with his crime."

My 26 years on the streets of Indy taught me that most, if not all, thugs and/or holdup men don't have the mental capacity to grasp these concepts until they get caught. This stuff may come out in a post-arrest interrogation but is highly unlikely to cross their mind before that. The answer to a question which starts with "Did you ever think about................" is probably BS.

in the days of olde...

thugs really did progress from the simple crimes to much more serious crimes. a lot of them were concerned about consequences and punishments. it didn't stop most of them.

today's thugs think robbery & murder are rites of passage. they have been conditioned to live without hope and taught nothing of living in a civilized manner by my generation. i see too many young guys committing crimes for likes & shares.

right now in my hood there is a gang of soon to be's from gary stealing amd robbing from every person they catch "slipping". the police have really stepped up and are trying to help but my neighbors & i realize that we are going to have to stop them. we look out for each other. a lot of my neighbors now understand the meaning and intent of "try that in a small town".

you would think that after several people have shot at these idiots they would have caught on. but since they have no hope or sense of the future they do not care about life. theirs or ours

 

[Max Volume]

Great read.
I like to do a lot of walking at night and was doing so many moons ago. A jeep suddenly stopped, two guys came out and started toward me. I did the jacket swipe and they stopped in their tracks then told me there was a peeping tom in a sister's window.
It worked then.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Still confused on how you get to the point you shoot at innocent people to hopefully hit one guy. Why not catch him alone if you are determined to do this?

Good article.

Don

Some people severely underestimate their handgun skills. Not everyone is a Gary Plauche or an IDPA/USPSA master class shooter.

 

[ratames]

It is available in the Gunsite pro shop:

Products

www.gunsitestore.com

Barnes & Noble has the eBook version available for $8.49 on their website.

 

[edporch]

Principles of Personal Defense - Paladin Press​

by Jeff Cooper

You can get a free download as a .pdf file here.

https://ia601605.us.archive.org/35/...f Cooper - Principles of Personal Defense.pdf

 

[tackdriver]

I have a hard time with how someone crosses the line where a life is not important. I understand self defense, but to take a life for momentary gain is beyond my understanding.

Acknowledging the 'unspoken' part of human nature is really the first step to good self-defense. Ignore it at your peril.

We train children from the start that even thinking of violence as a response or method is abnormal and WRONG. Wrong maybe, but it's not abnormal at all.

It gets easier when you go deep back in time. Humans are, in part, are vicious, violent creatures. Without claws, fangs, poison, horns, or weighing a ton, we dominated the food chain. If we wanted something that others had - we killed them. If others came into our area and didn't follow the right protocols - we killed them. Even the other top predators generally tried to steer clear. When they didn't - we killed them.

At times, violence and death were primary entertainment - gladiator arenas ring a bell? "Hey, let's make these guys fight to the death!" for a chuckle. Now we do it with movies and games, but the pull of our nature is still there.

It was the most dangerous among us that survived and procreated. Everyone else was dead or otherwise deminished in the gene pool. The evidence of this part of our nature is everywhere, but most can't even consider it, much less believe it. Delusion is just way more comfortable than truth.

Thankfully, the other half of our nature involves compassion, reason, a general inclination for peace and good. I'm glad our society nourishes and encourages these "good" traits. Over a very long period, we've gotten to where most of us are today. The thugs and terrorists types are a much smaller part of society now, but definitely not gone.

Like pigs, if allowed to go ferule, it doesn't take too long for our original 'wild' traits to come out.

 

[Purdue1991]

Acknowledging the 'unspoken' part of human nature is really the first step to good self-defense. Ignore it at your peril.

We train children from the start that even thinking of violence as a response or method is abnormal and WRONG. Wrong maybe, but it's not abnormal at all.

It gets easier when you go deep back in time. Humans are, in part, are vicious, violent creatures. Without claws, fangs, poison, horns, or weighing a ton, we dominated the food chain. If we wanted something that others had - we killed them. If others came into our area and didn't follow the right protocols - we killed them. Even the other top predators generally tried to steer clear. When they didn't - we killed them.

At times, violence and death were primary entertainment - gladiator arenas ring a bell? "Hey, let's make these guys fight to the death!" for a chuckle. Now we do it with movies and games, but the pull of our nature is still there.

It was the most dangerous among us that survived and procreated. Everyone else was dead or otherwise deminished in the gene pool. The evidence of this part of our nature is everywhere, but most can't even consider it, much less believe it. Delusion is just way more comfortable than truth.

Thankfully, the other half of our nature involves compassion, reason, a general inclination for peace and good. I'm glad our society nourishes and encourages these "good" traits. Over a very long period, we've gotten to where most of us are today. The thugs and terrorists types are a much smaller part of society now, but definitely not gone.

Like pigs, if allowed to go ferule, it doesn't take too long for our original 'wild' traits to come out.

Humans are animals with more intellect. Some take what they want by means of law and/or corruption. Others take what they want by means of violence. It's all the same. The fact of the matter is the strong usually win out. It's just the way nature was designed.

I was taught in Catholic school to turn the other cheek. That didn't work out so well for me for about 1/3 of my life. Then I wised up and didn't take **** from people any longer. You don't have to be a predator. But you can't be a sheep.

 

[tackdriver]

...

I was taught in Catholic school to turn the other cheek. That didn't work out so well for me for about 1/3 of my life. Then I wised up and didn't take **** from people any longer. You don't have to be a predator. But you can't be a sheep.

When I was a teen learning martial arts my dad said "... didn't Jesus teach us we should turn the other check? I just don't get why you're so serious about learning to fight."

I replied "If the other guy is 240 lbs, and can crush me like a soda can, I don't think I get bonus points for turning the other cheek. That's just self preservation. Now, if I know I can crush his windpipe, blind an eye, or take out his knee, and THEN I CHOOSE to turn the other cheek... that might mean something in heaven."

Dad just shook his head as mumbled something about never thinking of that, and never brought it up again.

 

[tackdriver]

Humans are animals with more intellect. Some take what they want by means of law and/or corruption. Others take what they want by means of violence. It's all the same. The fact of the matter is the strong usually win out. It's just the way nature was designed.

I was taught in Catholic school to turn the other cheek. That didn't work out so well for me for about 1/3 of my life. Then I wised up and didn't take **** from people any longer. You don't have to be a predator. But you can't be a sheep.

It's really funny - As soon as I realized that I didn't need to turn the other cheek, I also stopped getting slapped in the face!

 

[ZurokSlayer7X9]

When I was a teen learning martial arts my dad said "... didn't Jesus teach us we should turn the other check? I just don't get why you're so serious about learning to fight."

Not to get religious in the Self Defense Forum, but the "Turn the other cheek" was intended for personal insults. Jesus was not a pacifist and we are called to defend ourselves as well as our families and the innocent with physical and deadly force if necessary. Christian Pacifism in my opinion is a false doctrine.