should felons be able to purchase weapons??

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  • NYFelon

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    NYFelon, a couple of things that still give me questions, mainly because the whole situation is scary in the "this could happen to nearly anyone" kind of way...

    First, the way you described the incident makes it sound like maybe you tossed him a little more ass-whipping than was really necessary -- and ONLY because of the way you said it. Now I know lots of people will get their panties all wadded up about this question because of the notion that if someone swings at you, you should beat him until Jerry's kids feel sorry for him, but in real life it's not really that way. Was there anything like that discussed? Just trying to get my head around where defending yourself went the way it did.

    Second, can you talk about your thoughts and mindset around taking the deal? I saw you said that the conviction rate was high, but from the description of the incident, it would seem to me, from the safety of my comfy office chair in Indiana, that I'd take my chances with my witnesses and a jury of my peers rather than plead guilty to a felony that would send me to jail for a year and prohibit owning a handgun, ever.

    As I said, taken at face value, this seems like it could happen to any of us, and I'd like the opportunity to understand what happened to you, the choices you made, etc, and try to figure it out BEFORE it happens to me.


    Well, like I said, when he first approached us, I got up and talked to him, and he seemed cool with us again and left. Then evidently we "got to loud" again, and he comes over, and our buddy that just graduated was seated opposite me, closest to the end of the table. The guy gets up in his face, and starts talking all kinds of garbage, screaming in his face, et al. So I stood up (it's been so long I don't remember the exact dialogue), and I asked the guy what the eff his problem was? We exchange some words, the guy takes a swing at me. He's drunk, the punch is slow, I side step it, and hit him a couple of times. His nose popped almost immediately. He's still standing up, so I hit him a few more times, and he goes to the floor. I step away, the bouncers make their way over and pull me aside, ask me what happened. The bartender says he's calling the cops. It ain't his place, he has to.

    The whole thing was over in seconds. It wasn't some knock down drag out brawl, and I certainly didn't keep hitting him after he fell down.

    As for my mindset about the entire deal, I'll try to keep it simple. I was a 22 year old kid, who had only ever before been busted for possession of marijuana. And when I say busted, I don't mean arrested. I mean a cop caught me smoking pot out of a one-hitter in a park. I don't know about Indiana, but in NY, pot's not exactly seen as a big deal. The cop took my pot, took my bat and dugout, and wrote me a ticket for possession of marijuana. I went to court, paid a fine and done.

    Now, I'm arrested, charged with a gigantic felony, and in jail. In short, I'm crapping in my pants. I took the plea deal on my attorneys advisement, because he pretty much said, if you go to trial in Suffolk County, you go to prison. And the option of going to prison for one year, or a minimum of 5 and a maximum of 25, well that's not hard math.

    so that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
     

    The Bubba Effect

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    I mean a cop caught me smoking pot out of a one-hitter in a park. I don't know about Indiana, but in NY, pot's not exactly seen as a big deal. The cop took my pot, took my bat and dugout, and wrote me a ticket for possession of marijuana. I went to court, paid a fine and done.


    WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, YOU HAVE SMOKED POT?

    RED ALERT, AMBER ALERT, TERRORIST THREAT LEVEL MAGENTA, TEN SIX NINER, TEN SIX NINER, WE HAVE WHORES IN THE CITY REQUEST BACKUP

    You just lost any and all validity as an upright citizen and should have been thrown in prison and the key should have been thrown away the moment you were caught with the marijuana pipe.

    (not really, I just wanted to take the wind out of the fascists' sails before they could jump on you regarding the marijuana issue, continue on)
     

    NYFelon

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    WOAH, WOAH, WOAH, YOU HAVE SMOKED POT?

    RED ALERT, AMBER ALERT, TERRORIST THREAT LEVEL MAGENTA, TEN SIX NINER, TEN SIX NINER, WE HAVE WHORES IN THE CITY REQUEST BACKUP

    You just lost any and all validity as an upright citizen and should have been thrown in prison and the key should have been thrown away the moment you were caught with the marijuana pipe.

    (not really, I just wanted to take the wind out of the fascists' sails before they could jump on you regarding the marijuana issue, continue on)

    lol. I was gonna say, I may be new here, but where's my purple?

    And I'm sure someone will say "look, he smoked pot. He's a degenerate".

    smokeD. Past tense. when I was a child..........i put away childish things, and all that hoi paloi.
     

    NYFelon

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    At the arraignment yes. At the subsequent appearances while hammering out the plea deal, no. They had me indicted almost instantly. That's how Suffolk County rolls. My mother in Law works for the county in the legal department. Pretty much if your case goes to the grand jury here, you're indicted. If you go to trial, you go to prison.

    Yeah, we're mostly a totalitarian state out here.

    Edit: In fact, last summer there was an acquittal. The fact that there was an acquittal in The Superior Court of the County of Suffolk was so big, it made the newspaper.
     

    iChokePeople

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    Sounds like getting out of Dodge is your best choice, brother.

    Was there ever any discussion around working the plea arrangement to bring it down into the misdemeanor bucket?

    Sitting once again in my rather comfy office chair far away in Indiana, having never seriously contemplated a NIGHT in jail, let alone a year, or 5, or 25, I tend to be philosophical and think this is what our justice system is designed for. You won't be thrown to a hang 'em high judge, but to a jury of your peers -- reasonable people like you who will listen to both sides and come to a fair decision. I tend to dream that when this jury of your peers hears both sides, about how he was drunk and belligerent and started the fight, about how at no point did he ever give any of you (because your friends will all testify) reason to believe that he was a LEO, they will acquit. And shame on this officer for getting so drunk in public that he'd start a fight and then bring this case. I think of the appeals system that was designed so that even if you have a rabid prosecutor, a hang 'em judge, and a county populated by retired LEOs and angry old women, a conviction can be appealed to a higher court that will jump in and allow fairness and reason to rule, because they're not from Suffolk County.

    But mostly I think wow, something like that could drop in any of our laps at any moment, and that I've never really contemplated spending an HOUR in jail, or how I'd react to something like this. It gives me a chance to think through it all and how I might be able to learn from it.
     

    crmguns

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    sounds like you had a pretty crappy lawyer. I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure that if the cop was not in uniform or you had no way knowing he was law enforcement, you shouldn't have been charged with assaulting a police officer.
    Maybe the sate law is different in NY, but I am pretty sure that if a federal officer got beat down by someone for a reason not related to his job it is not assault on a federal officer.
     

    NYFelon

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    I had Amy Fisher's Lawyer.


    The thing is, I was offered assault II, felony D at plea bargain (which simply states that some did, with intent, cause physical harm to another) or Assaulting an officer Felony B if I went to trial. Looking back I probably should have went to trial, but it took almost every dime I had in the world to hire this guy, and he was very serious about his advice not to go to trial. The DA refused a reduction to a misdemeanor.

    iChokePeople said:
    so that even if you have a rabid prosecutor, a hang 'em judge, and a county populated by retired LEOs and angry old women

    lol. You just described where I live to a Tee.

    @iHateIraq

    Nah. I just snort drano off of fat girls boobs.
     

    Lex Concord

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    Incorrect. My wife may not own firearms, as the house is mine. Therefore it falls under the legal doctrine of Constructive possession, this is how cars repossessions and foreclosures occur. The simple fact that the gun is in my house makes me it's possessor. The exception would be if the guns were locked in a safe, to which only she had a key, and I had no access thereto. Which pretty much defeats the purpose of owning a firearm for self defense in the first place.

    And lol @ the "well he shouldn't have committed a felony in the first place." It was self-defense. The only reason I was even prosecuted is because the individual who was the original belligerent happened to be a policeman.

    While I tend to agree that if you're a danger you should be locked up, if not, you should have your rights.

    That said, your characterizing as self defense "tossing an ass whoopin'" on someone so drunk that he swung and missed seems disingenuous.

    No surprise the prosecutor threw the book at you, right or wrong. Had he not been a cop you would have faced a lesser initial charge, but your description of events seems you took it beyond self defense, and you likely would have been charged and convicted, though possibly not a felony.:twocents:
     

    Lex Concord

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    Again, what other rights should felons be forced to give up?

    Should? Good question. I tend to believe that removal of rights should be the exception (based on the individual case) rather than the baseline, but that's not our system, and makes claims of bias far harder for the state to refute (not, not a big fan of "the state" here).

    However, what is legal and Constitutional for them to be forced to give up? Those as prescribed by law after having had due process in front of a jury of their peers, though there are certainly flaws in execution all along the way.
     

    j706

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    Apparently, you got up in a Court of Law and swore that you knowingly battered a police officer. Unless you are now swearing that you additionaly committed the felony of perjury, then you were sentenced for what you admitted you did.

    Funny how that works. You tell the judge that you knowingly and intentionally assaulted a police officer and he sentences you for that.

    Just food for thought.


    Yea there is something here we are not getting. It does not add up IMO. B Felony and one year imprisonment!! We are not getting the entire story.

    N.Y. PEN. LAW § 120.08 : NY Code - Section 120.08: Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional

    Search N.Y. PEN. LAW § 120.08 : NY Code - Section 120.08: Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional





    A person is guilty of assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional when, with intent to prevent a peace officer, police officer, a fireman, including a fireman acting as a paramedic or emergency medical technician administering first aid in the course of performance of duty as such fireman, or an emergency medical service paramedic or emergency medical service technician, from performing a lawful duty, he causes serious physical injury to such peace officer, police officer, fireman, paramedic or technician. Assault on a peace officer, police officer, fireman or emergency medical services professional is a class C felony.



    Still doing some research on this. I don't know anything about NY law but this seems a little...well hard to buy.
     

    j706

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    N.Y. PEN. LAW § 120.11 : NY Code - Section 120.11: Aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer

    Search N.Y. PEN. LAW § 120.11 : NY Code - Section 120.11: Aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer





    A person is guilty of aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer when, with intent to cause serious physical injury to a person whom he knows or reasonably should know to be a police officer or a peace officer engaged in the course of performing his official duties, he causes such injury by means of a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument. Aggravated assault upon a police officer or a peace officer is a class B felony.




    Just thinking here. I still think we are only getting part of the story. Most states including Indiana require that for battery on LE that the LEO needs to be in the performance of their duty's or something to that effect.
     
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    NYFelon

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    Read back. I already told you, I wasn't convicted of Assaulting an officer, that was what they initially charged me with, and indicted me on. I plead guilty to Assault II, which I believe is 120.05, since you're in the penal law. First offense, I was sentenced to 1 year, in so doing you serve all your time in a county correctional facility, rather than a state one.

    All I know is I was a scared 22 year old kid offered one year in jail on a plea deal, or face whatever the judge sentenced me to, on some hotshot ADA's recommendation, with a maximum of 25 years. Under my attorney's advice I took the deal.

    Don't know what more I can say.
     

    j706

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    Read back. I already told you, I wasn't convicted of Assaulting an officer, that was what they initially charged me with, and indicted me on. I plead guilty to Assault II, which I believe is 120.05, since you're in the penal law. First offense, I was sentenced to 1 year, in so doing you serve all your time in a county correctional facility, rather than a state one.

    All I know is I was a scared 22 year old kid offered one year in jail on a plea deal, or face whatever the judge sentenced me to, on some hotshot ADA's recommendation, with a maximum of 25 years. Under my attorney's advice I took the deal.

    Don't know what more I can say.


    Yea I hear you. Not saying you are lying. But some people do tend to pad the details in their favor and that is why I did a little research on NY law. Was the LEO working security by chance?
     

    NYFelon

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    Yea I hear you. Not saying you are lying. But some people do tend to pad the details in their favor and that is why I did a little research on NY law. Was the LEO working security by chance?

    Nah. We were regulars, and I never saw the guy before in my life. The bouncer was there, and pulled me over to the wall after the fight. Really it just seemed like he was drunk, pissed about something, and looking for a fight. I don't think I "took it too far". He swung, missed. I hit him 2 or 3 times, and stepped back. He was still standing, so I hit him a couple more times, then he fell down. I did not hit him while he was down, because IMHO, once the guy hits the floor, he's no longer a threat.

    I hope not since it was stated that he was drunk and couldnt fight very well

    lol. I know I shouldn't be laughing, but that tickled me.
     
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