School Employee Carry Problem

[PEARCE]

I'm a school employee who is waiting for his permit. Nonetheless, since I'm a school employee I can't carry when I go to work and coming back home. I can't and I won't keep my gun in the car, although it would still be illegal. It would be great if I could check my gun in with the security liaison ( on campus cop((real cop)). Does the government offer any solutions for public employees that carry and work at Courts, County Buildings, Schools, and etc?

 

[AFA1CY]

I think the problem with your question is "Does the government offer any solutions" First government never has solutions. Second government does not want the responsibility for the safeguarding of your weapon. Thirdly I would not want government to have responsibility and control of my weapon. The real solution is to legislate out restriction on where you can carry IMHO.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

 

[ATM]

Agreed. Government solution would be to stop being the source of the problem. They usually aren't into that.

 

[melensdad]

I'm a school employee . . .

You are pretty much screwed.

I carry when I drop my child off/pick up from school each day. I can't get out of the car to help carry in a school project or to hold an umbrella if it is downpouring rain.

Seems to me that your problem is at least as bad as mine.

I know there are many of us here who face similar problems with the insane "gun free school zone" legislation. There should be some provisions that allow LTCH holders to remain legally armed without becoming felons if they are simply going about their daily business. I should be able to exit my car to help my child, or at least be allowed to lock my gun in my car. You should be able to secure your gun with your police officer (but I will also point out that NOT all schools have an officer so that could be problematic).

Any way you look at it, the law needs to be changed.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I'm a school employee who is waiting for his permit. Nonetheless, since I'm a school employee I can't carry when I go to work and coming back home. I can't and I won't keep my gun in the car, although it would still be illegal. It would be great if I could check my gun in with the security liaison ( on campus cop((real cop)). Does the government offer any solutions for public employees that carry and work at Courts, County Buildings, Schools, and etc?

to INGO and good for you for applying for your LTC.

The law does have a <cringe> loophole that would allow you to take your pistol with you.

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.

That might be interpreted to say that since you are employed by the school to perform or participate in an activity authorized by the school (that is, to teach), you could carry. That's VERY tenuous and unlikely to be ruled in your favor, I'd guess (though if it was it would be a landmark decision for CCW) but the better method would be if your principal authorized you specifically to carry as a "security guard" in addition to your teaching responsibilities. I'd think that latter to be, pardon the pun, bulletproof.

Is it likely that that could or would happen? Probably not, but it would be a way within the law that you could do what you want to do. FYI:
If you park off campus and use something like one of the products from Center Of Mass Central, you would not be risking your firearm nor would you be violating the law. Just a thought.

Note that IANAL, IDSIAHIELN, and TINLA disclaimers apply.

Blessings,
B

 

[ATM]

Note that IANAL...
Blessings,
B

I just think U good with details

 

[PEARCE]

Thanks

Thanks for your replying to my comment. This is a great forum and I'm happy to be a part of it, especially since I'm getting into sport shooting and defense.

 

[wolfman]

to INGO and good for you for applying for your LTC.

The law does have a <cringe> loophole that would allow you to take your pistol with you.


That might be interpreted to say that since you are employed by the school to perform or participate in an activity authorized by the school (that is, to teach), you could carry.

Nope, sorry you are reading too much into this section. Maybe this will help:
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

OR
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.


This whole section is written to only exempt a person "Employed to act as a security guard" at a school or school authorized activity. It also limit's the employer to either the school that authorizes the activity, or the owner or operator of the property being used for the activity. Being a teacher wouldn't cut it, the contract language would also have to include the phrase "security guard" in the paid duties of the job description.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Nope, sorry you are reading too much into this section. Maybe this will help:
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

OR
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.


This whole section is written to only exempt a person "Employed to act as a security guard" at a school or school authorized activity. It also limit's the employer to either the school that authorizes the activity, or the owner or operator of the property being used for the activity. Being a teacher wouldn't cut it, the contract language would also have to include the phrase "security guard" in the paid duties of the job description.

While I respect that your opinion differs from mine (and since (correct me if I'm mistaken) neither of us is either a lawyer or a judge, that's all it is is two opinions), if the whole section is only to exempt someone employed to act as a security guard, why does it not simply say that?

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.

Based on the numbering, this is saying that the chapter is inapplicable to (1) a ______ LEO,(fill in federal, state, local) and it is inapplicable to (3) a person who may legally possess AND does so in a vehicle used to transport another person to or from a school or a school function. That said, let's retype it, without those portions extraneous to our discussion.

IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to:
__(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
____(A) a school; or
____(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.

If it only meant a security guard in sec 1, subsection 2, it could much more concisely say "A person who has been employed by a school as a security guard. As written, the letter of the law also includes persons authorized by a school or by a person owning/operating property being used by a school for a school function (that is, if the Murat Temple is rented to be used for a prom, they can still hire armed guards other than police to provide security.)
Granted, it was another state, but keep in mind that Jeanne Assam was a "security guard" at her church. Such "guards" do not have to be paid.

I'd like to see this clarified by a lawyer without the establishment of an attorney-client relationship, but just as a general read of the law. If one of our "legal eagles" does not care to make a public statement on such, please PM me and I will repost your answer without specifying who gave it.

Thanks very much, and as always,

Blessings,
B

 

[pierce195]

Reading Indiana code this would mean the school would have to add "security guard" to the job function of the employee. This could mean little more than a title added to a teacher, but could mean a lot of issues for that person. If someone thing happens they would be force to act in the event a "security guard" was needed.

I'm all for persons with permits carrying firearms to keep schools a safe place.

 

[minuteman32]

I work for a non profit which treats kids w/ emotional handicaps in schools. I was forced to be disarmed from the time I left my home each day, until I returned. I lobbied my legislators to change the law so I could @ least have my gun in my car.
To solve the problem, I became a Reserve Police Officer. Now I can carry into the school if I choose (and the city county building, etc.). I do NOT believe that someone should need a badge to do this! We need to get the law changed so that an LTC is honored in all areas of this state (like it was 15-20 yrs ago).

FYI, State Sen. Johhny Nugent is going to introduce a couple of bill this session to do most of this. When I talked to him yesterday he said they will need a tremendous amount of support. So, lets start making the phone calls, emails & visits to our legislators now.

 

[ryanmercer]

I work for a non profit which treats kids w/ emotional handicaps in schools. I was forced to be disarmed from the time I left my home each day, until I returned. I lobbied my legislators to change the law so I could @ least have my gun in my car.
To solve the problem, I became a Reserve Police Officer. Now I can carry into the school if I choose (and the city county building, etc.). I do NOT believe that someone should need a badge to do this! We need to get the law changed so that an LTC is honored in all areas of this state (like it was 15-20 yrs ago).

FYI, State Sen. Johhny Nugent is going to introduce a couple of bill this session to do most of this. When I talked to him yesterday he said they will need a tremendous amount of support. So, lets start making the phone calls, emails & visits to our legislators now.

You know, I've been wanting to do that myself... but IMPD's reserves seem just about as difficult to get onto as the regular force... and Speedway has no budget for any such thing, I'd even work for free for Speedway, or for 1$ a pay period, I love my town that much.