Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[oze]

We were talking about low yield nuclear weapons, and I was wondering what the yield of a Moab was compared to one of Russia"s lowest yield nuclear weapons 0.1 kiloton. Which is about 9x more powerful than our Moab. They can be delivered via cruise missile. They probably are able to put them in their hypersonic missiles as well.

In that case, there's a good chance that they end up nuking themselves.

Russian Hypersonic Missile May Have Accidentally Struck Russia

The incident in the Stavropol region came on the same day that Kinzhal missiles were among those that struck a reservoir in Kryvyi Rhi.

www.newsweek.com

 

[BigMoose]

The Russians are now straight up getting their arse handed to them... Completely and totally. Big breakthroughs in the south and the north.

Now about the nukes. They are a Pandora's box. And in a tactical use, they aren't all that good at what they do.
First, the state of the Russian Forces are such that they are in such disarray that they are likely unable to operate in an NBC environment.

The US and NATO did studies out the wazoo on what a nuclear battlefield would look like, while grim, nukes are not an instant 100% thing. Nato and the US estimated that there will be holdouts. 10% to 20% left. Which means your forces still literally have to go in clean things out, in a space that is pretty much a fresh Chernobyl. The rads will decimate your forces pretty well too. Particularly if they are unprepared.

Yes yes, the big strategic nukes are the big scary destroy the world stuff.. but Tactical nukes are a different breed. Many are really small, but others are a bit larger. They are clumsy and indiscriminate.

Civilian casualties will be through the roof..

And this is assuming what state of maintenance the nuclear weaponry is in...

And like I said, its a pandora's box... use one, and you invite the worlds greatest shock and awe show to show up at your door. Russia can barely handle Ukraine, and can't... They have pulled so much off the Nato border that M1s and Leopards could be in Moscow in days.

 

[BigMoose]

MOAB is .011 kiloton. Russian FOAB is .04 kiloton.

Mention of the FOAB has been near to nothing lately. Its not a nuke, and they could get away with using it.

The issue is that it requires a stupidly vulnerable cargo plane to deliver it to the target...
(Same goes for the US version)

 

[DadSmith]

Retired general David Petraeus predicts the US would destroy Russia's military in Ukraine and sink its naval fleet if it used nuclear weapons

The retired four-star general and ex-CIA chief said Russia is "desperate" following a series of recent defeats in eastern Ukraine.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[KG1]

"Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in a Friday joint press briefing with Canada's top diplomat that the damage and disruption to the pipelines are being seen in Washington as a "tremendous opportunity" to greatly reduce European energy imports on Russia.

A mere few sentences later, he followed by saying "ultimately this is also a tremendous opportunity. It’s a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence on Russian energy and thus to take away from Vladimir Putin the weaponization of energy as a means of advancing his imperial designs."

He at the same time touted that the Untied States has now become "the leading supplier of LNG [liquefied natural gas] to Europe," stressing too that the Biden administration is helping to enable European leaders to "decrease demand" and "speed up the transition to renewables."

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

It's comments like these and the ones Biden made back in Feb 2022 "promising to bring an end to the Nord stream pipelines" and "We have ways of doing that" that makes the US highly suspect.

Trump only cautioned the Europeans not to be too dependent on Russian energy and encouraged them to seek other sources so as not to be compromised by their dependence on Russia.

It is a very plausible possibility that the US Biden administration went a step further and took concrete covert action to try and ensure the Europeans couldn't go all wobbly on supporting US backed Ukraine against Russia because of their dependence on Russian energy.

In other words, the US led Biden administration would have had a vested interest in in taking away that option for them to cut a deal with Russia further guaranteeing that they need to rely on us and not the Russians for LNG energy.

If so, the Biden administration played a major part in escalating the conflict toward WW3 and a nuclear confrontation and all US credibility on the Global stage will be trashed turning the US into a pariah.

 

[BigMoose]

Want to know what this war is for?
Freedom from living under a Stalinist regime.

Let's send them more things to give ole Ivan the Communist a headache.

 

[Leadeye]

Retired general David Petraeus predicts the US would destroy Russia's military in Ukraine and sink its naval fleet if it used nuclear weapons

The retired four-star general and ex-CIA chief said Russia is "desperate" following a series of recent defeats in eastern Ukraine.

www.businessinsider.com

These dc people need to keep in mind just how many American lives and how much American property they are willing to squander to teach the Russians a lesson in Ukraine. Regan's team dismantled the USSR without firing a shot back in the 80s, they have to use different means when dealing with Putin than they did with Sadam.

 

[Wolfhound]

These dc people need to keep in mind just how many American lives and how much American property they are willing to squander to teach the Russians a lesson in Ukraine. Regan's team dismantled the USSR without firing a shot back in the 80s, they have to use different means when dealing with Putin than they did with Sadam.

Unfortunately Putin is more like Saddam than like Gorbachev. But, in some ways he is a different animal all together. He is a product of the Soviet era KGB more than anything else.

 

[DadSmith]

Putin ‘orders nuclear military train to Ukraine’

President Putin is set to demonstrate his willingness to use weapons of mass destruction with a nuclear test on Ukraine’s borders, Nato is believed to have warn

www.thetimes.co.uk

Ukraine forces advance on two fronts, cross Russian lines in the south

Ukrainian forces achieved their biggest breakthrough in the country's south since the war began, bursting through Russian defences and advancing rapidly along the Dnipro River on Monday, threatening supply lines for thousands of Russian troops.

www.reuters.com

 

[DragonGunner]

Putin moved troops on Ukraine border for military practice. What happened? Now he is moving nukes to the border for "testing". Putin doesn't have to invade any further into Ukraine....he can just nuke it into total destruction. Then claim victory to his people that he taught Ukraine and the West a lesson. Will we send nukes to Russia.....if we do its all over for all of us. Is Putin desperate enough to do it, probably. Are we stupid enough to do it....well we got Biden so all bets are off on that, but most likely the CIA won't let him do it. At this point I still don't like Putin, but the EU and Ukraine isn't much better, maybe worse. And then there is the US under Biden. Is our government right now anything better than Russia? So we get rid of Putin, Russia falls into pieces and who you got running the nuclear nukes then.....people that could launch....or sell them to terrorist that ship them over to Mexico.....well at least our border is secure. A few nukes going off randomly in the US that weren't tracked who we going to attack back.....ya, we win against Russia selling gas, we lose in the end....?

 

[DadSmith]

Putin moved troops on Ukraine border for military practice. What happened? Now he is moving nukes to the border for "testing". Putin doesn't have to invade any further into Ukraine....he can just nuke it into total destruction. Then claim victory to his people that he taught Ukraine and the West a lesson. Will we send nukes to Russia.....if we do its all over for all of us. Is Putin desperate enough to do it, probably. Are we stupid enough to do it....well we got Biden so all bets are off on that, but most likely the CIA won't let him do it. At this point I still don't like Putin, but the EU and Ukraine isn't much better, maybe worse. And then there is the US under Biden. Is our government right now anything better than Russia? So we get rid of Putin, Russia falls into pieces and who you got running the nuclear nukes then.....people that could launch....or sell them to terrorist that ship them over to Mexico.....well at least our border is secure. A few nukes going off randomly in the US that weren't tracked who we going to attack back.....ya, we win against Russia selling gas, we lose in the end....?

Just be ready to go at all times.
These things will come to pass but the end is not yet.

 

[BugI02]

These dc people need to keep in mind just how many American lives and how much American property they are willing to squander to teach the Russians a lesson in Ukraine.

It's the same as it ever was - they are willing to squander any American lives except their own and lose any American property except their own

Just like the inhabitants of Martha's Vineyard was all about offering sanctuary when it was unlikely they would ever have to actually provide it, the liberal elite is all about having a war so YOU can go die

 

[BigMoose]

Its a bluff.

Anyway, lets set all that aside the Nuclear tin foil hat stuff. You just can't use them in today's world..

Lets appreciate how screwed the Russians are in a conventional sense..

Let's look at the Kherson front..

Okay the Ukrainians are moving down the north side of the river in a big thrust..

But lets look at what set this up, A month long supply interdiction campaign...
Ukranian forces have been hitting all the supply lines and infrastructure leading across the river and up to the river.. they have these troops north of the river worn out, hungry, and no where to go... ready to give it up.

I am impressed. But again I almost think they have a West Point hot line set up feeding war planning to Ukraine. This is text book West Point war doctrine, the combined arms.. everything. Its impressive to see what is being acomplished.

The Russians are so screwed, they are tapped out, there isn't much left on the Nato front..

Its about this point someone puts a Makarov to Putin's head.

 

[Wolfhound]

Putin moved troops on Ukraine border for military practice. What happened? Now he is moving nukes to the border for "testing". Putin doesn't have to invade any further into Ukraine....he can just nuke it into total destruction. Then claim victory to his people that he taught Ukraine and the West a lesson. Will we send nukes to Russia.....if we do its all over for all of us. Is Putin desperate enough to do it, probably. Are we stupid enough to do it....well we got Biden so all bets are off on that, but most likely the CIA won't let him do it. At this point I still don't like Putin, but the EU and Ukraine isn't much better, maybe worse. And then there is the US under Biden. Is our government right now anything better than Russia? So we get rid of Putin, Russia falls into pieces and who you got running the nuclear nukes then.....people that could launch....or sell them to terrorist that ship them over to Mexico.....well at least our border is secure. A few nukes going off randomly in the US that weren't tracked who we going to attack back.....ya, we win against Russia selling gas, we lose in the end....

I agree but keep in mind Russia wants Ukraine's land and resources. It's not much good to them radioactive. Also, keep in mind fallout likes to drift and Russia is adjacent to Ukraine.

 

[BigMoose]

I agree but keep in mind Russia wants Ukraine's land and resources. It's not much good to them radioactive. Also, keep in mind fallout likes to drift and Russia is adjacent to Ukraine.

And fall on Sweden, everyone else...

Its just all around a bad idea...

 

[DragonGunner]

Interesting piece in Russell Brand. Biden saying if Russia invades Ukraine he will shut down the Nordic pipeline. Ask how he would do this Biden said we have the capability. Rice also said years ago they want Russia destroyed and for Europe to buy gas only from us, never Russia. Putin is the dying breed of the KGB, just like we still got a dying breed in the CIA still fighting a Cold War and want a victory over a old rival before they go to the grave, imho. Like George Carlin said…”There’s a big club, and we ain’t in it.” And that’s why our CIA got Biden in. War makes $$$ for the club.

 

[DragonGunner]

And fall on Sweden, everyone else...

Its just all around a bad idea...

Lots of bad idea have been done throughout history. Just saying. But hey, let’s keep poking the bear with nukes. Russia has always feared America destroying them. Fear can make for bad outcomes.

 

[BigMoose]

Interesting piece in Russell Brand. Biden saying if Russia invades Ukraine he will shut down the Nordic pipeline. Ask how he would do this Biden said we have the capability. Rice also said years ago they want Russia destroyed and for Europe to buy gas only from us, never Russia. Putin is the dying breed of the KGB, just like we still got a dying breed in the CIA still fighting a Cold War and want a victory over a old rival before they go to the grave, imho. Like George Carlin said…”There’s a big club, and we ain’t in it.” And that’s why our CIA got Biden in. War makes $$$ for the club.

There is a reason, and its nothing to settle an old debt...

In the 2000s, Russia used the $$$$ from selling natural resources to breath life into its cold war arms industry. That is what they used to breath some life into it. But it looks like corruption undermined that effort, still it was enough to embolden Putin to threaten all his neighbors.. and give him the thought he had enough to restore the former Soviet Union..

Turns out that it may not have been enough.

 

[jwamplerusa]

The Russians are so screwed, they are tapped out, there isn't much left on the Nato front..

Its about this point someone puts a Makarov to Putin's head.

I agree. But this also quite frankly scares me. I am absolutely amazed that no one close to Putin with a sense of self-preservation and common Sense has yet to put a bullet in his totalitarian brain. (And what is up with no one taking up @BigRed up on his offer? At this point it may be the deal of the century.)

The start of Tom Clancy's Red Storm rising keeps playing through my mind. The chapters where the Russians realize they will run out of fuel and decide it is time to lash out. That is the Russian way.

Putin is nearly a psychopathic as Stalin. I don't have confidence that he won't use a nuke. If he uses a nuke, it doesn't have to be us that response. Remember France and the UK are nuclear powers. If the fallout blows to the West and begins contaminating either of those countries they could decide to retaliate.

 

[bobzilla]

I’m pretty sure that even in its hey day the old Soviet Union was at best a paper tiger. Had they ever actually tried to advance on the west they would have been chewed to bits by the wests advance equipment and tactics. I think that was something that many of the Soviet leaders realized as well and why we had peace for so long.

I have a feeling that after the walk fell and the ussr broke up a lot of that knowledge left. So we end up with leader after leader getting worse info about their effectiveness and readiness to pocket money. So you get what we have now, a leader that believed they were truly a super power in conventional arms but the reality is they have outdated equipment and horrible tactics that just get chewed up by western equipment and training.