Run in with Lawrence Police Officer this AM

[E5RANGER375]

well maybe he said some things he shouldnt have, but in the end, you were doing AT LEAST 63 in a 45 (holy ****!!) and your gonna come on the internet and complain about being yelled at a little bit?!?!?!?!?! If I were you, I would have been embarrassed that I was going so fast over the limit with my child in the car. Speed limits are there for a reason. time and time again I see you speeders come here and ***** about tickets or warnings you get for speeding. The officer could have boned you in the ass and he chose not too. maybe he had compassion for you since he saw your daughter? I dont know, but you got off lucky. do the crime, pay the fine. and if you get lucky when you are REALLY breaking the law then shut the heck up and see a miracle when you get one. If he is gonna hunt you down in the future do you think he would have let you go now when he really had you by the balls? I doubt it. I say things when Im mad sometimes too. as a average joe, seeing some guy flying down a 45mph street at AT LEAST 63 would **** me off too, and I bet I'd say some choice things to you too. Man up and realize you were wrong. I think you lost the right to total respect when you blew the limit by AT LEAST 18 mph. slow down.


edit: Im not trying to disrespect you Mike_Indy. I would say the same thing I just said to you to my closest friend. So please dont take it as me trying to further berate you. this is just the best way I know on how to give you some advice from my prospective. im just a man, so im flawed too and my advice might not be perfect, but its the truth as I see it. do slow down though, please. If nothing else, for your daughter, even if she's not with you in the car.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Actually, I read a good comment from Que a few days ago (I forget where)...

I was taught that you GIVE respect to EVERYONE. However, if someone were to act like a jerk, then you LOSE my respect (LEO or not).

This, exactly. I also agree with the suggestion to meet him for lunch (dutch) and just talk. It's not about defending yourself verbally, and I do understand your shock at the way you describe being treated; I'm thinking I would have calmly asked him, "Officer, is there a reason you can't make your point without raising your voice and berating me? I'm trying to be civil and polite with you.", but in all honesty, I can't say I would have done that, in part based on this being hindsight and in part based on the fact that I rewrote that sentence about 5 times.

As I said to Que the other day when he posted that, I also was raised that you give respect, but that it is earned. When a particular person is disrespectful to me or otherwise earns my disrespect, that person might receive it. Giving respect is the default. To put it another way, they have to "opt-out" of receiving it.

Props to the OP also for making clear the fact that yes, he DID deserve the citation; no excuses, no shifting of blame. Personal responsibility. It's a beautiful thing.

I'll be handing out some rep in this thread and despite my disagreement with some people's blanket statements, I don't expect any of that to be red.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Ashkelon]

I would leave it alone.

The officer in question is a human being and if you go jacking with his employment jacket you can bet he WILL remember your vehicle. Would you want him pulling over your wife in hopes it is you? You know that won't go well.

You were at fault and so was he. Perhaps during the encounter he realized this and that is why you only got the verbal lashing as opposed to a hit for a couple hundred bucks.


People treat us like crap all our lives at least this officer had the decency to do it to your face.

Let it go.

 

[Denny347]

Misinformed? We see it in eveyday actions. If cops want the respect they think they deserve they have to EARN it.

The same can be argued about non-LEO's could it not? Would you say that in general, the public is dishonest and only deserve respect if earned? Do we not see ALL the crime committed by the public? I see you are new here so I'll give you a piece of advice. It is not appropriate to generalize ANY group. I am a LEO AND a responsible gun owner (duh, why else would I be here?) and responsible gun owners refuse to be lumped in with those who run astray of the law. I ask for the same consideration.

 

[Mike_Indy]

Update: I decided to call into the department. I left a message for the LT on todays shift. I explained the facts of the situation and how things progressed. I acknowledged that I was in error and was in fact let off easy in that I was not sighted. However, I was very disappointed in the way the officer handled it. Especially with my 16yr old daughter in the seat next to me. This is her first an only reference point with a police encounter. She will be driving on her own in a few months.

The LT assured me that if I wanted to file a complaint I could and she (at 16) could be a witness. He also assured me action would be taken. I said that I do not want to file a complaint as I was "let off" and do appreciate that part. My "hope" would be that the officer receive some form of clarification that the behavior was not acceptable. LT assured me that he wold locate the office and deal with the agreed behavior issue.

My logic for the choice is that he was decent enough to not ticket me, and I will be decent enoughs to not file a formal complaint, but not completely overlook the issue. We'll have to see where it goes from here.

 

[Mike_Indy]

Regarding the not stopping in the road...
I asked if I was wrong in not stopping (as that was what the LEO started with off the bat.)

LT told me no, its okay. Proceeding to a safe area after slowing down was ok. He recommended using the hazard lights as opposed to the turn signal. In the case of a female driver (advice for my daughter) he said it would be recommended to proceed to a well lighted area.

 

[Mike_Indy]

"Speed limits are there for a reason. "
In some cases, like this stretch of the road it is for funding, not safety.

E5RANGER375:

"Man up and realize you were wrong. " Ahh, try reading the OP.

" I say things when Im mad sometimes too." don't doubt it for a minute.

"slow down." Yep, but as said in the OP, one ticket in 20+ years its really not a pattern of behavior. I've been driving this same route for over 11 years and this is my ONLY incident as I'm normally within 5 of the limit.

--------------------------

For the record my only words in this situation were Yes Sir..No Sir, Yes Sir...Thank you.
If he want to ticket me, that is fine. As I said I deserved it. Talking like a jerk-weed is not okay.

If it turns out to be the guy I think it is..I will approach him with a conversation. Since I called and reported it I suspect he may be a bit pissed and see me as ungrateful for the "miracle". If that is the case he and E5RANGER375 are missing my point.

 

[kadetklapp]

You have the right to find a suitable stopping place when being pulled over. Well lit, and out of traffic so noone is in harms way. Cops are dirty and I agree that filing a complaint with his superior will not only get no serious attention from his "brothers" but will place you in the crosshairs with every cop in lawrence if you even go a mile over the posted speed limit. Let it ride I say.

Wrong. Do not spread misinformation. You do not have the right to decide when and where to execute a traffic stop. The police officer does. There is a reason he wants you to stop and to stop right there. As for the rest of your comments, they are typical garbage like most of the anti-LE drivel found on this board.

 

[Mike_Indy]

This, exactly. I also agree with the suggestion to meet him for lunch (dutch) and just talk.

Will be doing this in the next week or so. If it is the guy I think it is, lunch would not be the case. He's pretty well known in the neighborhood for being an A$$. Not a person I'd want to spend a lunch time with in a normal situation.
And yes, the recorder will be on.

 

[kadetklapp]

Update: I decided to call into the department. I left a message for the LT on todays shift. I explained the facts of the situation and how things progressed. I acknowledged that I was in error and was in fact let off easy in that I was not sighted. However, I was very disappointed in the way the officer handled it. Especially with my 16yr old daughter in the seat next to me. This is her first an only reference point with a police encounter. She will be driving on her own in a few months.

The LT assured me that if I wanted to file a complaint I could and she (at 16) could be a witness. He also assured me action would be taken. I said that I do not want to file a complaint as I was "let off" and do appreciate that part. My "hope" would be that the officer receive some form of clarification that the behavior was not acceptable. LT assured me that he wold locate the office and deal with the agreed behavior issue.

My logic for the choice is that he was decent enough to not ticket me, and I will be decent enoughs to not file a formal complaint, but not completely overlook the issue. We'll have to see where it goes from here.

So you called and complained (calling his LT is complaining) because you got your butt chewed out for doing 70 mph in a 45 mph zone and the officer was nice enough to not write you? I don't know about the rest of you you, but I'd rather take a tounge-lashing with no lasting effects than a $165+ ticket and the most polite service imaginable.

 

[Mike_Indy]

Wrong. Do not spread misinformation. You do not have the right to decide when and where to execute a traffic stop. The police officer does. There is a reason he wants you to stop and to stop right there. As for the rest of your comments, they are typical garbage like most of the anti-LE drivel found on this board.

According the the "LT" it is "acceptable" to travel a short distance to a safe and even lighted area. I never claimed it be a "right". I've seen enough videos of LEOs being hit by cars. I'd expect it to be appreciated as I described it, not a point of confrontation.

 

[Mike_Indy]

So you called and complained (calling his LT is complaining) because you got your butt chewed out for doing 70 mph in a 45 mph zone and the officer was nice enough to not write you? I don't know about the rest of you you, but I'd rather take a tounge-lashing with no lasting effects than a $165+ ticket and the most polite service imaginable.

I agree with you on part of this post. The threat to "watch me like a hawk in my neighborhood and the area and write me up for every infraction he sees" was not acceptable. (pretty close to an EXACT quote).

I was wrong..YES. He was wrong...YES. I don't want my daughter to roll thru a stop sign, miss a turn signal or whatever in a few months and meet up with a LEO like this one. If I don't call, when does a guy like this stop?

If I had been by myself I would likely have either not said anything after the fact or possibly confronted the interpreted threat as it progressed.

Do I typically speed. NO. Do I teach my daughter the right way to drive. Yes. Did I do that in accelerating too fast making a pass on a nearly empty road, NO, not at all. Will I talk about that with her this and teach from it, yes.

 

[kadetklapp]

I agree with you on part of this post. The threat to "watch me like a hawk in my neighborhood and the area and write me up for every infraction he sees" was not acceptable. (pretty close to an EXACT quote).

I was wrong..YES. He was wrong...YES. I don't want my daughter to roll thru a stop sign, miss a turn signal or whatever in a few months and meet up with a LEO like this one. If I don't call, when does a guy like this stop?

If I had been by myself I would likely have either not said anything after the fact or possibly confronted the interpreted threat as it progressed.

Do I typically speed. NO. Do I teach my daughter the right way to drive. Yes. Did I do that in accelerating too fast making a pass on a nearly empty road, NO, not at all. Will I talk about that with her this and teach from it, yes.

I guess it was one of those "had to be there" moments. I've chewed many an ass over driving habits, especially when folks are caught doing just plain stupid stuff.

I typically do not write tickets. I don't have the money to pay for one, so I doubt many other people do either. Unless that person wholly earns a ticket, I try and convince them that their driving habits are going to hurt or kill somebody as that is my belief. Sometimes that involves me not using my nice guy voice and sometimes I'm sure the person is embarrassed by the whole encounter. I don't do it to look down on someone but because I think they would learn more than if they had to concentrate on where they are going to find $200 to pay a ticket and insurance increases.

That being said, as to the threat to watch you like a hawk, I don't think I'd have been too pleased with the comment either, but on the other hand don't take it out of context. Lots of high school kids get that line from me especially when doing brake-stands in the middle of intersections or other dumb stuff. I will watch for them. That is my job. They have been duly warned and I will watch for them again to see if they decide to earn that ticket. I believe that is what the officer was trying to convey to you. While it may have been the wrong place to do that (I might have taken you to the rear of the car to tell you this, rather than make it a point to do that in front of your daughter) I think that's what he was doing.

 

[BE Mike]

well maybe he said some things he shouldnt have, but in the end, you were doing AT LEAST 63 in a 45 (holy ****!!) and your gonna come on the internet and complain about being yelled at a little bit?!?!?!?!?! If I were you, I would have been embarrassed that I was going so fast over the limit with my child in the car. Speed limits are there for a reason. time and time again I see you speeders come here and ***** about tickets or warnings you get for speeding. The officer could have boned you in the ass and he chose not too. maybe he had compassion for you since he saw your daughter? I dont know, but you got off lucky. do the crime, pay the fine. and if you get lucky when you are REALLY breaking the law then shut the heck up and see a miracle when you get one. If he is gonna hunt you down in the future do you think he would have let you go now when he really had you by the balls? I doubt it. I say things when Im mad sometimes too. as a average joe, seeing some guy flying down a 45mph street at AT LEAST 63 would **** me off too, and I bet I'd say some choice things to you too. Man up and realize you were wrong. I think you lost the right to total respect when you blew the limit by AT LEAST 18 mph. slow down.


edit: Im not trying to disrespect you Mike_Indy. I would say the same thing I just said to you to my closest friend. So please dont take it as me trying to further berate you. this is just the best way I know on how to give you some advice from my prospective. im just a man, so im flawed too and my advice might not be perfect, but its the truth as I see it. do slow down though, please. If nothing else, for your daughter, even if she's not with you in the car.

I don't believe it, but I'm agreeing with E5Ranger. If the object of the officer's stop is to make an impression and help you adjust your driving behavior to obey the speed limit in the future, then his "tongue" lashing was used instead of a citation. Unless he used foul language, if I were you I'd consider that I have a few hundred cash in my account that I probably should not have. Take responsibility for your mistake and learn from it. You were in the wrong. Man up. If you don't keep within the speed limit, it is likely that this same officer will say little on the next stop and issue you a citation or citation(s). Like E5Ranger, I'd say the same thing to my best friend or grown child.

 

[Bunnykid68]

He did own up to all of his guilt for breaking the traffic law, he did not like being treated like a turd. That was disrespectful.

 

[Armed Citizen]

The only time I have ever had a encounter with an officer was in Greenwood. I was checking out at Marsh, reached for my wallet in my right hip pocket, which uncovered my Taurus Raging Bull .44 mag. I was given a hard look by a Greenwood officer, who then followed me to my truck. He stated "Is there any reason why you felt you had to show me your gun" I said no, not at all, He stated "Got a permit?" I said "yep, want to see it" He said "no" I said than why all the questions? He said "I think you were just trying to prove something" I said "I did prove something" He said "what?" I said "Mine is a lot BIGGER than yours" We both laughed and he said have a great day.

 

[bassplayrguy]

Wrong. Do not spread misinformation. You do not have the right to decide when and where to execute a traffic stop. The police officer does. There is a reason he wants you to stop and to stop right there. As for the rest of your comments, they are typical garbage like most of the anti-LE drivel found on this board.

You are the first one to say that I don't have the right to stop in a well lit area that is safe. I just agree to disagree with you on this. I don't bash all cops. Only the ones who earn it. I actually have several cop friends and they also admit that there are alot of dirty cops out there who muddy the water for everyone else. Respect is earned, not given because you have a badge.

 

[Denny347]

You are the first one to say that I don't have the right to stop in a well lit area that is safe. I just agree to disagree with you on this. I don't bash all cops. Only the ones who earn it. I actually have several cop friends and they also admit that there are alot of dirty cops out there who muddy the water for everyone else. Respect is earned, not given because you have a badge.

What's safe? I initiate a traffic stop in an area I feel is the safest place only to have you NOT stop where I was planning and potentially place us in greater danger. I have no problem with someone pulling inot a parking lot adjacent to our location when I activate my lights. However, you decide to travel a few blocks while you are looking for a "safer" place all the while I am following lights and siren...not so good. Like it or not, when we initiate a traffic stop, you are now at our direction. We are not trying to get hurt just as much as you. Who do you think is gonna get hit first? Me. You have a lot of cop friends that say there are a lot of dirty cops? Hmm, well we have our share of jack-asses but they are far from dirty. Dirty (criminal) cops are actually quite few.

 

[UncleMike]

I worked with hundreds of Officers during my LEO career.
Some of them definitely fell into the habitual "ass chewer" category.
Personally, I only turned into a prick under one condition.
If the person that I stopped turned into a prick first!!
I figured that if they wanted a fight that bad, I'd oblige them.
The OP in this case was polite and appeared to get butt chewed instead of ticketed.
I say that the butt chewing was unnecessary, but it sure as Hell beats a ticket!

It's not so much a matter of respect for the Officer as it is common sense.
If you don't want your ass chewed off, don't tell the Bear to kiss it.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I have a suggestion you can take or leave. I've known Lawrence Police Chief Paul Whitehead for a number of years. He always seemed to be a pretty good cop when he was with IPD, but he's also a politician and very aware of the need for his people to behave on the street. You might try to speak to him and explain your concerns. He might not agree with you, but the politician in him will not blow you off either. If your intention is: "this is a bad cop and he needs to be punished so he won't be that way again" (which doesn't sound like your position), Paul isn't your guy. If you'd like the police officer to be encouraged to be a little more polite, that might happen. It also might be that he might choose to back his officer to the hilt.