Red Dot Considerations

[cedartop]

Red Dot Considerations

With so many red dot sights (RDS) available these days, maybe a quick overview of what matters might be useful. “What matters” is what matters for your use, not what some guy on the int…

pistol-training.com

 

[G192127]

I like holosun shake awake and multi reticles

 

[Skip]

On pistols that don’t point naturally for me, I use Holosun 507CX2 with the bigger reticle. On ones that have a better grip angle, I use the Swampfox Justice.

Swampfox gives a 30% discount to veterans.
I recently purchased a Hi-Lux TD-3C to try out. They also give a decent veteran’s discount.

The RMR sights may be the "best" for some but are out of my price range to put on all of my carry pistols.

 

[Gabriel]

I have shot quite a few handguns with red dots in the last year... unfortunately it's a limited number of rounds through a lot of different optics. I know from "testing" the cheap dot I have that I wouldn't bother with an open emitter on anything, even if it spends most of it's time caressing my FUPA protected under a shirt and jacket. I also know what I've liked immediately upon presentation and firing, and it's larger windows with smaller (2-3 MOA) red dots. My favorite has been the Steiner MPS, followed by the Aimpoint P-2 and Holosun 509T.

I'm actually kind of surprised the Steiner has made the top of my list, but it's likely what will end up on my G19.

 

[cedartop]

I have shot quite a few handguns with red dots in the last year... unfortunately it's a limited number of rounds through a lot of different optics. I know from "testing" the cheap dot I have that I wouldn't bother with an open emitter on anything, even if it spends most of it's time caressing my FUPA protected under a shirt and jacket. I also know what I've liked immediately upon presentation and firing, and it's larger windows with smaller (2-3 MOA) red dots. My favorite has been the Steiner MPS, followed by the Aimpoint P-2 and Holosun 509T.

I'm actually kind of surprised the Steiner has made the top of my list, but it's likely what will end up on my G19.

I guess I am sorta the opposite of you. I still prefer open emitters, though the the new EPS carry on my 365XL is doing great, mainly because I hate the looks of those giant mailboxes that most of the closed emitters are. I know style shouldn't matter. The other thing I don't like about the Acro and Steiner is compared to the size of the optic, the window is small. I also prefer larger dots. For me they are normally clearer and less likely to be mistaken if they get ghosting from the sun. That chevron on the ACCS does a good job of resisting washout but I guess because I am used to round dots from the last 13 years of using them, it just doesn't have that balance of speed and accuracy for me.

 

[Dean C.]

I guess I am sorta the opposite of you. I still prefer open emitters, though the the new EPS carry on my 365XL is doing great, mainly because I hate the looks of those giant mailboxes that most of the closed emitters are. I know style shouldn't matter. The other thing I don't like about the Acro and Steiner is compared to the size of the optic, the window is small. I also prefer larger dots. For me they are normally clearer and less likely to be mistaken if they get ghosting from the sun. That chevron on the ACCS does a good job of resisting washout but I guess because I am used to round dots from the last 13 years of using them, it just doesn't have that balance of speed and accuracy for me.

Agreed on open emitters , the bigger window is definitely an advantage with a red dot. Plus for your average CCW carrier the extra durability provided by closed emitters is not needed IMHO. It's my understanding a lot of LEO red dot failures are from when they start rolling on the ground and the optic can get crushed even when in a holster.

 

[IUKalash429]

Personally, a big fan of Trijicon. My RMR has been wonderful. For cheaper stuff I've had luck with multiple Burris FastFire 3 dots (I managed to break one and Burris replaced it for free). Need to add a Holosun to the handgun mix - their optics have been impressive on all the rifles I run them on.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Enclosed emitters, unless just for fun.

2 - 3 MOA dot, multi reticle is fine, but not required. Shake awake with auto power down is preferred to extend battery life.

On pistols I currently run a Holosun 509T and a Leupold Delta Point Micro. I am leaning toward the EPS and a cut for my M&P compact. Primarily to gain a slightly larger window than the DPM.

 

[kaveman]

One of the better red dot discussions I've read. I'm sold on the Holosun with ACSS reticle and I'm glad to see that he gives it mention. Everyone seems to think that if you just stand in one place square to the target and get in a few thousand reps that dot's gonna be there every time. Well, maybe it will be, but will it be there if/when you're shooting from behind cover or having to fire from flat on your back in the mud? The ACSS gives you instant feedback to find the dot when it's not there.

I've got the ACSS in a whole pile of 507Cs and one 509T. I've been waiting a year for it to become available in the smaller 507K and just managed to snag one yesterday. A green one is finally going on the Shield+ SC.

 

[Gabriel]

Agreed on open emitters , the bigger window is definitely an advantage with a red dot. Plus for your average CCW carrier the extra durability provided by closed emitters is not needed IMHO. It's my understanding a lot of LEO red dot failures are from when they start rolling on the ground and the optic can get crushed even when in a holster.

I know one failure in particular with the optic the DNR went to (it's a Sig, bit I don't know which model) happened when the officer was holstering witht he slide locked back. I'm not sure how he did it, but when he was holstering he inadvertently hit the slide release. The slide came forward and the optic hit part of the holster and the glass shattered. This was during the initial training class where they were getting used to their new guns and optics.

 

[Gabriel]

I guess I am sorta the opposite of you. I still prefer open emitters, though the the new EPS carry on my 365XL is doing great, mainly because I hate the looks of those giant mailboxes that most of the closed emitters are. I know style shouldn't matter. The other thing I don't like about the Acro and Steiner is compared to the size of the optic, the window is small. I also prefer larger dots. For me they are normally clearer and less likely to be mistaken if they get ghosting from the sun. That chevron on the ACCS does a good job of resisting washout but I guess because I am used to round dots from the last 13 years of using them, it just doesn't have that balance of speed and accuracy for me.

Most of my thought process is related to duty guns, since that is what I carry most of the time. That's the main reason I'm stuck on enclosed emitters. I know the window on the Acro is really small (about the same size as the window on the Holosun 507), which is one of the reasons I went with the Steiner MPS (which is ordered, but not in my grubby little paws yet).

For my concealed carry guns, I don't see any reason to go with something that isn't as robust as my duty optic if I have a choice in the matter. With that in mind, I won't consider an open emitter for that either. I still don't really want a Holosun, but there isn't anything else on the market like the EPS Carry. I think that's going to go on my G48.

 

[cedartop]

Most of my thought process is related to duty guns, since that is what I carry most of the time. That's the main reason I'm stuck on enclosed emitters. I know the window on the Acro is really small (about the same size as the window on the Holosun 507), which is one of the reasons I went with the Steiner MPS (which is ordered, but not in my grubby little paws yet).

For my concealed carry guns, I don't see any reason to go with something that isn't as robust as my duty optic if I have a choice in the matter. With that in mind, I won't consider an open emitter for that either. I still don't really want a Holosun, but there isn't anything else on the market like the EPS Carry. I think that's going to go on my G48.

I get it. If I was using it for duty or other open to the elements carry, I would want an enclosed emitter too. For point of reference though, the measurements I have show the window of the Acro to only be .396 sq in, with the 507K at .446, 507c at .573 and something like the SRO at .692.

 

[Skip]

Closed, schmosed (lol), I just take my carry gun to the garage and blow the dirt out with an air nozzle. Usually on the day I take that pistol out of CCW rotation.

 

[Gabriel]

Closed, schmosed (lol), I just take my carry gun to the garage and blow the dirt out with an air nozzle. Usually on the day I take that pistol out of CCW rotation.

You shoudl carry a can of this with you in a kydex holster in case you need to use your CCW when you aren't in your garage...

 

[Skip]

You shoudl carry a can of this with you in a kydex holster in case you need to use your CCW when you aren't in your garage...

View attachment 265262

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I just might have to make me one!
I’ll make it match!

 

[cedartop]

Red Dot Considerations Part II

I have to say I am tracking pretty much 100% with him on this one, with a slight bit of hesitation on CORE.

 

[Gabriel]

I get it. If I was using it for duty or other open to the elements carry, I would want an enclosed emitter too. For point of reference though, the measurements I have show the window of the Acro to only be .396 sq in, with the 507K at .446, 507c at .573 and something like the SRO at .692.

I may have gotten my Holosun models mixed up. Regardless, the Acro window is really small. I am 100% going to paint a little red mailbox flag on it when they are issued to us.

I also didn't explain why like the smaller dots. I have an astigmatism and the smaller dots work better and, due to my astigmatism, are probably appear a MOA or so bigger due to the starburst effect. A long time ago I decided I'd just deal with it rather than tr to find optics that are better suited to having that issue... especially since I'm issued certain optics and I don't have a lot of choice but to use them.

 

[ABrad15]

I like holosun shake awake and multi reticles

The best bang for your buck

 

[cedartop]

I may have gotten my Holosun models mixed up. Regardless, the Acro window is really small. I am 100% going to paint a little red mailbox flag on it when they are issued to us.

I also didn't explain why like the smaller dots. I have an astigmatism and the smaller dots work better and, due to my astigmatism, are probably appear a MOA or so bigger due to the starburst effect. A long time ago I decided I'd just deal with it rather than tr to find optics that are better suited to having that issue... especially since I'm issued certain optics and I don't have a lot of choice but to use them.

That's why the say everyone's eyes see things differently. I don't know if there is any scientific truth to that, but it is true anecdotally. For me, a bigger dot is almost always rounder and clearer. Don't know why. Still plan to try a green one and see how that works for me.

 

[SmileDocHill]

That's why the say everyone's eyes see things differently. I don't know if there is any scientific truth to that, but it is true anecdotally. For me, a bigger dot is almost always rounder and clearer. Don't know why. Still plan to try a green one and see how that works for me.

I'm guessing on the eye physiology here but here is my opinion the reason I notice more starburst from astigmatism with a smaller dot. To get a smaller dot to APPEAR to be the same brightness and pick it up as fast, it is actually emitting more light per surface area. A bigger dot can be less intense for equal feeling effectiveness to the eye/brain.
With astigmatism in general it seems that the starburst effect increases with light intensity more than any other factor.