Range Report and Request for Help with a malfunctioning Taurus 709 Slim

[Bapak2ja]

Bapak2ja:

I've got over a thousand rounds of many types of FMJ and JHP through my 709. It IS a good gun. Let's leave out the 'All Taurus guns are crap' threads - it is just not true. The main failure mode for the 709 seems to be the extractor. If you go through the posts on TaurusArmed, you'll see that it is not a rare event based on the posts. But based on the number of 709s sold, it's probably not a major design defect - more of a part QC issue. Winchester White Box seems to be the most problematic ammo - more folks have trouble with it than any other. The Hornady Critical Defense has, based on posts in several forums, a spotty record of non-fires in sub-compact semis.

I have had no trouble with WWB, but I've had two non-fires with CD. Both rounds fired on the second pull of the trigger. I would not condemn the 709 based on the Critical Defense. The fact that you seemed to have had trouble with 1 round of several types of ammo might indicate that it could also be a magazine problem. There are some posts that suggest you might need to polish up the follower and the body of the magazine if you have this problem, particularly if it's always the last round that is the problem.

The other major factor in keeping a 709 running seems to be cleaning. The lower seems to collect all kinds of crap and you really need to pick and poke around in there to get it squeaky clean. I've noticed that the trigger action gets 'gravelly' after about a hundred rounds. Unless your gun was THOROUGHLY cleaned when it was new or after you got it, it is highly likely that functionality could be affected by the white gunk that Taurus puts in their guns when they are manufactured.

If you have cleaned the gun, had someone else shoot it, checked the magazines, and still have the problems, send it back to Taurus. From the posts in various forums, MOST of the extractor problems are fixed when folks get their guns back.

swmp9jrm,

THANKS for a solid reply. I agree that the "Taurus is trash" line needs to be ignored. I appreciate, and sought, advice on how to make this work. Obviously, this one is a bit more sensitive than my Glock, and I will have to learn how to handle it. I have cleaned it. I will test it again, and have my sons test with me in case I am not handling it correctly. I will try some different ammo. Then I will evaluate if it needs to go back to the factory.

I knew there was a reason I joined INGO!

 

[jmancobra]

i though all tauri had a lifetime warranty?

 

[JohnP82]

sorry to hear you are having these problems, that can be really frustrating. i agree that taurus make some nice handguns. i have one and i love it. never had a problem with it. good luck with everything, i hope it all turns out well and will be keeping an eye out for the updates.

 

[SSGSAD]

I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt. I like to believe that INGOers will be honest with their fellow members. Maybe I am naive . . .

If you were closer, I would love to shoot, and see it ftf.....

 

[Simon6101]

Never had an issue

I have a 709 and have had no problems with it. What is the round count of FMJ. A lot of guns won't function reliably until they have been fed a couple hundred rounds of FMJ first. It will smooth all the moving parts up. It also sounds like it had to much oil in it. I oil my just like my Glock (very spareingly)

 

[Chefcook]

Contact Taurus if the problems persist, they have great customer service and stand behind their products...

 

[mk2ja]

Pops, I told ya to clean it before you went out to test it! Just like you don't count on somebody else to have inspected the chamber, you always verify it is empty yourself, too. "Trust, but verify." -Reagan. Hopefully it is just because it wasn't clean. I'll seeya at the end of February and I can try it out then.

 

[graham88]

For what it's worth... Sorry you’ve had a rough way to go...

I had a 709 and put well over 200+ rounds through it... (White Box FMJ 115gr)
WITH NO FAILURES AT ALL!!

Love the size and feel in my hand!!

Hope you are able to easily figure it out and enjoy it....

 

[Bapak2ja]

Range Report Update

I finally had an opportunity test the Taurus 709 Slim again. After the first trip to range (tip of the hat to H & H Firearms), I thoroughly cleaned the weapon. I did not pay special attention to the chamber, though. I cleaned it as usual—but it was clean.

I fed 100 rounds through it; 50 Sellior & Bellot 115gr FMJ and 50 Winchester 115gr FMJ (White Box). It was enough to convince me that I still have a problem. Here are the details, mag by mag.

Mag #1 Selier & Bellot
PERFECT!

Mag #2 Selier & Bellot
2nd round FTF. I pulled the trigger it again (the 709 has that special function) and it fired properly. The remainder of the mag fired properly.

Mag #3 Selier & Bellot
3rd round FTF on the first trigger pull, but fired properly on the second pull. The rest of the mag functioned properly.

Mag #4 Selier & Bellot
PERFECT

Mag #5 Winchester White Box
2nd, 5th and 6th rounds FTE. All rounds fired after being reset.

Mag #6 Winchester White Box
1st, 3rd FTE. Round 6 FTF. I squeezed the trigger three times with no result. I removed the round, reloaded it in the mag, reloaded the 709 and the last two rounds fired properly.

Mag #7 Winchester White Box
3rd and 6th rounds FTE. Fired properly after clearing the FTE.

Mag #8 Winchester White Box
Rounds 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 FTE.

Mag #9 Selier & Bellot I wanted to see if performance with this ammo deteriorated after using the WWB.
Round 5 FTF twice, but fired properly on the third try. Next two rounds fired properly.

Mag #10 Selier & Bellot
PERFECT

Mag #11 Winchester White Box
Rounds 1, 3, 5 FTE. Round 6 FTF. I reloaded round 6 and it fired properly.

Mag #12 Winchester White Box
Rounds 5, 6 FTE

Mag #13 Winchester White Box
Rounds 1,5 FTE.

Out of 100 rounds, I had 5 FTF and 20 FTE for a total 25% failure rate. I am open to suggestions., but I think it is time to contact Taurus customer service. Help me out, folks. Recommendations? Please do not and bash Taurus. needed or wanted. Just need your expertise to help me correct the problem.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Joe Williams]

Sounds like light strikes for whatever reason. When you cleaned, did you pay particular attention to the firing pin channel? Could be gunk in there. If you've got a spray cleaner, you could try spraying some in there and seeing if anything comes out. It's a distinct possibility the firing pin or channel has a bunch of gunk (to use the technical term) gumming up the works.

If you DID clean the firing pin channel, it's time to give Taurus a call

 

[Hondo]

I say send it in.....I think you have given it a fair test and 25% failure rate is unacceptable....particularly since you have both FTE and FTF..since one shouldn't affect the other...send it in for service...

Good Luck...let us know ho wit turns out.

 

[LotsofGlocks]

Send it back! Thanks for the report.

 

[nate77]

Based on information found on taurusarmed.net, you probably picked the two worst ammo's for the slim. S&B has a lot of hard primer FTF's, and for some reason the WWB is notorious for causing FTE problems in this gun.

I'd still think about sending the gun back to taurus, maybe they can improve the FTE problems, but you're probably stuck with the S&B light primer strike problem, just don't use S&B with this gun.

 

[mammynun]

stronger striker spring? meh, probably impossible to find... send it back.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Update

On top of my FTF and FTE problems, I must now report that the rear site fell of my Taurus 709 Slim. The good thing about that is that it removed any doubts about the proper course of action.

I called Taurus Customer Service. After a fifteen minute wait on hold I was able to speak with an agent. He asked what I needed.

I said, "I have a 709 that does not operate properly."

He asked, "What's the problem?"

I replied, "Failure to fire and failure to eject."

There was no hesitation before he asked, "Do you want me to have a Fed Ex agent pick it up on Monday between noon and 5:00pm?"

I got the impression he had done this many, many times before.

The saga continues. I will keep you informed

.

 

[JohnP82]

thanks for the update. good luck and hope all goes well.

 

[nate77]

Let me know how the return process goes, because I think I'm going to have to send my new TCP back too.

I shot two magazines yesterday. The first was reloads from a local reloader; it was mixed brass. I had one failure to eject with that magazine. Then I loaded up a mag of my defensive load (90gr Speer Gold Dots) I had 3 out of 6 fail to eject. All of my failures have been the same with this gun the spent casing is half way out of the chamber, and the slide is trying to load the next round, so you have a pretty good jam up. You have to pull the slide back to take pressure off the next round, drop the mag, and then pull the slide back again to clear the original spent casing. What a pain in the ***. Also the spent casings that cause the jam have a huge nick in the rim like the ejector was forcefully ripped off the rim, and not gently released.

Here's a summary of my expeirence so far. I cleaned and lubed this gun before I ever shot it, then took it out and fired sixty rounds of reloads through it, and had the FTE problem twice. I just chalked the two problems up to break in; then I took the gun home and cleaned it up again. Then yesterday I had the 4 out of 12 outing; that’s where I'm at now.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Let me know how the return process goes, because I think I'm going to have to send my new TCP back too.

I shot two magazines yesterday. The first was reloads from a local reloader; it was mixed brass. I had one failure to eject with that magazine. Then I loaded up a mag of my defensive load (90gr Speer Gold Dots) I had 3 out of 6 fail to eject. All of my failures have been the same with this gun the spent casing is half way out of the chamber, and the slide is trying to load the next round, so you have a pretty good jam up. You have to pull the slide back to take pressure off the next round, drop the mag, and then pull the slide back again to clear the original spent casing. What a pain in the ***. Also the spent casings that cause the jam have a huge nick in the rim like the ejector was forcefully ripped off the rim, and not gently released.

Here's a summary of my expeirence so far. I cleaned and lubed this gun before I ever shot it, then took it out and fired sixty rounds of reloads through it, and had the FTE problem twice. I just chalked the two problems up to break in; then I took the gun home and cleaned it up again. Then yesterday I had the 4 out of 12 outing; that’s where I'm at now.

Nate77,

Sorry to hear about your TCP. Your FTE is exactly what I have experienced, and yes, it is a royal pain!!! I plan to keep this thread going, and inform the INGO crew, of what happens. The crew has been a big help to me in sorting out how to manage this. Stand by for updates.

 

[Bapak2ja]

The promised pick did not occur. The Fed Ex courier never arrived, so I just called Taurus again. I got through immediately to Customer Service. The lady checked on my Service number and advised me that Fed Ex would be by today between 12.00 and 17.00. She did state that there have been some pick time changes, perhaps due to weather.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Fed Ex appeared on scheduled. The 709 is enroute to its maker.