'Random' searches by TSA....

[muncie21]

During a recent flight between Cleveland and Baltimore I was both angered and ashamed to see, first hand, TSA performing random searches of people at the airline gates.

This was after the security checkpoint folks. A team of 4-5 TSA employees were at my departure gate walking up to people 'randomly' and asking to search/pat them down.

I was angered to see this intrusion of our civil liberties and ashamed that no one overtly objected; me included. Next we'll be asked to show our 'papers' as we move about in public places, and detained if we object.

To clarify, I understand that upon choosing to enter a security checkpoint in an airport,we choose to have our possessions and persons searched. However after proceeding through this area, how can individuals be randomly detained and searched? Currently it is only a pat-down, but what's to prevent more in-depth searches or detainment in the future....all in the name of security....

 

[bigg cheese]

honestly, if it were a policy of the airline and performed by members of the private sector, I wouldn't object. Then again, i've never flown, and see no reason to unless I go overseas, which I can't forsee affording in the near future.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

This is another fine example of why I haven't flown since 911.. especially being an honorably discharged US Marine Veteran.. I am no threat to anyone, especially other Americans.

 

[22lr]

Airline travel is one area were I think all passengers should be searched, as soon as they get out of there taxi, at the ticket counter, at the security checkpoint, and before they board. 3000 dead Americans are the reason to why we need some serious security upgrades in our airports.

When will we learn from our mistakes and beef up the security. Airlines arnt about personal freedoms, its about keeping weapons of mass destruction out of the hand of terrorists. Sorry this is really on my mind for some reason.

 

[kybares]

By purchasing an airline ticket, you are agreeing to be searched by TSA officials at their discretion. It is simple, if being searched bothers you, don't fly commercially. It stinks, I totally agree, but the alternative has proven too costly. As to random searches at the gate, it most likely was due to a comment made by an alarmed person. In the age of P/C, rather than isolate one individual, they attempted to not alienate one person of interest and picked on several, which included the one suspect. If only the one were selected, passengers would have been leary of flying with that one, and the one could have grounds for legal action. Just my thoughts.

 

[NateIU10]

Airline travel is one area were I think all passengers should be searched, as soon as they get out of there taxi, at the ticket counter, at the security checkpoint, and before they board.

Outside of the secured areas, you can still carry. So yeah, if I was picking someone up, I would NOT want to be searched.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Airline travel is one area were I think all passengers should be searched, as soon as they get out of there taxi, at the ticket counter, at the security checkpoint, and before they board. 3000 dead Americans are the reason to why we need some serious security upgrades in our airports.

When will we learn from our mistakes and beef up the security. Airlines arnt about personal freedoms, its about keeping weapons of mass destruction out of the hand of terrorists. Sorry this is really on my mind for some reason.

I completely agree. Everyone should be searched on arrival at the airport. Those found to not be in possession of an effective tool for self-defense should be given a choice of two costumes, one of which must be worn so that others know not to depend on them:

. . . . .

Those who are defenseless because of some cocakamamie rule or law will simply be victimized by those who choose to ignore that rule or law, no matter where they are. Simply choosing to travel by air is no reason to have to be a helpless victim-in-waiting.

Put another way, I guarantee you that if there were not laws forbidding it, I would absolutely be armed on a plane. Are you saying the plane would be more at risk because I was armed?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[muncie21]

I vaguely recall a quote from an older individual (Ben I believe) that says something to the affect of- those that give up liberty for security, deserve neither.

Consider this-
What happened during Katrina was for our 'safety'
Wiretaps approved by a secret court are to protect our 'safety'
Firearms registration and ownership limitation is in the interest of 'safety'

 

[dsol]

Random searches are pure bull shumer. They need to have highly trained personnel profiling everyone who gets on the plane. Look for mannerisims, nervousness, overly calm as if they are at peace with everything, particular scents, and yes, racial makeup.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I just wish we'd adopt more of an Israeli system...

Yes, they profile. Yes, it works. Get over it.

-J-

 

[Scutter01]

I vaguely recall a quote from an older individual (Ben I believe) that says something to the affect of- those that give up liberty for security, deserve neither.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818)

 

[Fletch]

I guarantee you that if there were not laws forbidding it, I would absolutely be armed on a plane.

Even if they required people to jump through all sorts of certification hoops to be allowed to carry, I'd make it a priority to pass them all.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

My brother in law carries when he flies...

But, alas, it's his job. And I can't ever be on a plane with him. :-(

 

[dburkhead]

Airline travel is one area were I think all passengers should be searched, as soon as they get out of there taxi, at the ticket counter, at the security checkpoint, and before they board. 3000 dead Americans are the reason to why we need some serious security upgrades in our airports.

When will we learn from our mistakes and beef up the security. Airlines arnt about personal freedoms, its about keeping weapons of mass destruction out of the hand of terrorists. Sorry this is really on my mind for some reason.

You don't need the security theater to prevent another 9/11. All you need is passengers who decide that they aren't going to let that plane be used as cruise missiles.

On the flip side, if someone wants to bring a plane down and is willing to die in the process then no amount of searching can stop it. I can think of at least three ways to do so. One might be stopped by completely forbidding all luggage. A second might be stopped by literal strip searches. The third, well, I won't say what the third one might be stopped by except that getting there would require such a change to American society that it would involve several hours per passenger.

You don't need the security theater to stop terrorists from using airplanes as cruise missiles.
The security theater can't stop people from bringing down airplanes if that is their goal.
At most, the security theater creates another "chokepoint" for terrorists to attack. Next time you're in a big crowd waiting to go through security, imagine a suicide bomber in the security checkout line, not actually trying to get on a plane but just to get close to the scanning machines before going kablooie.

 

[techres]

A few months back a terrorist detonated a bomb that was in his anus and lower intestines. The terrorist had defeated all the protections of the target and was able to get very close to success but for not having enough charge in the device to cause death of the target.

That is now. So...

For those of you who are ready to do anything in the name of "security" and "threats", get ready to bend over and cough. Seriously.

Remember the gel threat and TSA wanting to look at women's bras? Remember the TSA agent handing a person a pair of pliers to remove a nipple ring before they would let the person through the metal detector?

There is reasonable and silly. There is feel good and there is overboard. There is getting to take your luggage, wear clothes and taking a pass on the rectal exam and Xray.

And there is the future we decide for ourselves instead of the one an ever expanding government agency claims "on our behalf".

You pick.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

3000 dead Americans are the reason to why we need some serious security upgrades in our airports.

By that same logic, the 15,000+ annual drunk driving deaths dictate that we need to install breathalyzers in every automobile, ban alcoholic beverages, & randomly stop vehicles to perform tests.

It may seem rather cliche...and others have already posted it in this very thread, but here it is again;

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

I argue that freedom of movement & relocation is an essential liberty, regardless of the methods or reasons. I would argue further that you should not be required by law to surrender your freedoms when using transportation. If your agreement with the owner of the vehicle doesn't restrict it, then it shouldn't be restricted.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Airline travel is one area were I think all passengers should be searched, as soon as they get out of there taxi, at the ticket counter, at the security checkpoint, and before they board. 3000 dead Americans are the reason to why we need some serious security upgrades in our airports.

When will we learn from our mistakes and beef up the security. Airlines arnt about personal freedoms, its about keeping weapons of mass destruction out of the hand of terrorists. Sorry this is really on my mind for some reason.

Ahh the old hit and run. Please come back.

Many more than 3000 have died for our liberties. I'd like to keep them.

 

[ocsdor]

People who are willing to give up freedom so the incompetent government can provide false protection are

 

[bigg cheese]

Knives, I wouldn't worry about, but I would have pause for fire-arms. They do pose a significant safety risk, and should not be used on board a pressurized aircraft in mid-flight except by someone who is actually trained to not shoot a hole in the plane .

Anyone know if Air Marshals are on all commercial flights? If they are, I would wager that would count towards them attempting to ensure my safety.

 

[dburkhead]

Knives, I wouldn't worry about, but I would have pause for fire-arms. They do pose a significant safety risk, and should not be used on board a pressurized aircraft in mid-flight except by someone who is actually trained to not shoot a hole in the plane .

That risk is overblown. A bullet hole in the skin of a plane is not going to cause the skin to rip off (if much larger failures do not do so, then a bullet hole certainly isn't). It's not going to cause sudden, catastrophic decompression. If it hits a window and by some freak of accident causes it to shatter, it's not going to suck people out of the plane.

Those things are myths, perpetrated by the media and others to make people afraid of the idea of leaving airline passengers with the ability to defend against terrorist threats.

A bullet hole will cause a leak of the pressurization, but planes are leakier than you might think anyway and the pressurization system can handle quite a bit more than that. At most, pressure will slowly start to drop, leaving plenty of time to bring the airplane to a lower altitude.

Anyone know if Air Marshals are on all commercial flights? If they are, I would wager that would count towards them attempting to ensure my safety.

No.

As of 2008:

Sources: Air marshals missing from almost all flights - CNN.com

(CNN) -- Of the 28,000 commercial airline flights that take to the skies on an average day in the United States, fewer than 1 percent are protected by on-board, armed federal air marshals, a nationwide CNN investigation has found.

I don't think it's changed significantly since then.