Proposed AR Build Critique Request

[Maximinus Thrax]

I've decided to start down the path of building my first AR. I haven't put any money down for anything yet since this will be a long term project but I think it would be a good idea to have my proposal picked over by the INGO collective before I drop down the dough.

That said, my intent is for this to be more "CQB" oriented (0-100 yards) since the longest range I currently have available is 100 yards anyway. I plan on skipping any optic for now so I can force myself and my wife to learn to work with the iron sights.

*EDIT*
I got really good feedback on the lower and the BCM complete upper I was looking at. I'll keep those in mind and compare back and forth. However, thanks to Seedubs1 I'm giving serious thought to building my own upper around an Odin .223 Wylde lightweight barrel and PSA Premium BCG.

Component	Product Name	Cost	URL
Complete Upper	BCM 16" Upper Receiver Group w/ Handguard (Upper, BCM Mod 4 CH, BCG)	737.99	Bravo Company Complete Upper + BCG & Charging Handle
Stripped Lower	PSA Blem Safe/Fire Lower + Transfer Fee avg. $12 (if buying 5 lowers)	62	PSA Blem Safe/Fire Stripped Lower Receiver
Buttstock Kit	Mil spec M4 Telescoping Buttstock kit	55.95	Damage Industries Basic Buttstock Kit
Rear Sight BUIS	MAGPUL MBUS GEN 2 REAR BLACK	50.58	Magpul BUIS Rear Black Amazon
Front Sight BUIS	MAGPUL MBUS GEN 2 FRONT BLACK	37.95	Magpul BUIS Front PSA
Fire Control Group	ALG Defense: Advanced Combat Trigger	66	ALG Defense A.C.T.
Lower Parts Kit	PSA MOE LPK w/o fire control group- Black	44.99	PSA Lower Parts Kit
	Proposed Rifle Total Cost	1055.46
*/EDIT*

 

[croy]

Buy some troy BUIS instead of the magpul, you can get a CMMG builders kit which doesn't include your grip and FCG which you won't need with the ALG trigger, and most upgrade the grip anyway.

The two places where you want to spend instead of saving a little money is your BCG and barrel.

 

[sig1473]

I would take the BCM upper every day of the week over your first choice. Also, if you get the BCM A5 receiver extension you need to get a rifle action buffer spring. You listed a carbine action spring. You will also have to get an A5 buffer as regular carbine/rifle buffers will not work.

 

[Mrmonte]

You have $152.75 wrapped up in a stock, buffer, etc mounting....

This is your first build and you mentioned a budget. If it was my first one, id start out with something like this and save $100.

Kit, Complete Buttstock, M4 Telescoping, Mil-Spec | Damage Industries
You can always change out the stock and put in an H buffer later down the road if your not satisfied and still break about even with your orig financial plan.

 

[T.Lex]

IMHO, for a budget build, the $750 is too much for an upper and even $400 is high. I agree with the advice of getting the BCG separately.

On Gunbroker, there are deals for uppers w/o BCG. Specifically, I've had solid experiences with a group called Hardened Arms. Their website has the uppers at about that $400 mark, but on Gunbroker they sell with no reserve for about 60% of that. Sometimes even less than that.

With the lower, watch PSA. You have ~$200 for basically a PSA lower that you assemble yourself. They run deals on complete lowers w/stock for better than that (at least, they did when I did my budget build). And unless you are absolutely sure you like that ALG trigger, you might find that the PSA trigger is good enough for now. If it isn't, sell it on the classifieds and help subsidize the ALG. I think it would still be cheaper than what you've outlined for the exact same thing.

Finally, if you watch the classifieds, you can get better deals on things like BUIS, mags, and AFG/VFGs. And meet a fellow INGOer in the process.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

I bought this (RF 16" 5.56MM SOCOM Radical Rail Upper Assembly) upper a few weeks ago. I am still waiting for it to be shipped, but once I get some rounds down range I'll let you know how it goes. I had a 10.5" upper with the Seekins handguard and I loved it, but I decided against going the SBR route and sold the upper. I expect this one to be just as good.

As for Radical Firearms uppers, I don't doubt that there are better quality uppers out there. But for the money, and the fact we won't be using these in a war zone or in a national level competition, I don't think you can go wrong with them. Their entry level stuff is $20 cheaper than PSA's, and they come with a free float handguard. Plus, 10% off coupons are very easy to find for Radical Firearms.

 

[bigcraig]

Get the BCM upper, quality costs money.

I also suggest taking your time and get exactly what you want, no sense on settle for components that you are not going to be happy with just to turn around and upgrade.

You can also find kit pricing on buttstocks with correct buffer tube and spring if you do your search and save your pennies.

 

[seedubs1]

Man, I'd recommend building your upper yourself. For a "budget" rifle, a $750 upper is pretty salty. Spend your money on getting a good barrel and BCG. If you build the entire rifle yourself, you should be able to do the whole build with really nice components for just the price of that upper.

Note: It seems like everyone is scared of building their own upper because that's where the "Bang" happens. Building an upper is easier than building the lower. If you can build a lower, you can do an upper no problem. Tons of instruction on the web regarding how to do it.

 

[wsenefeld]

Instead of buying a PSA lpk and the ACT trigger seperately, but them together and save. Also, the Magpul sights can be found for much less. The BCM uppers are great but not worth the $$ in my opinion. Get a PSA CHF upper if that's the route you're looking to go, then add the handguard you want and save.

 

[bigcraig]

Yes, building your own upper is a viable option, I have built many. However, there is some added costs to building your own, tools and what not, and if you plan on building a few uppers over time then it is sensible to go this route.

But again, the BCM is a good value and built properly considering it comes in the configuration you want with a BCG, a much better than stock CH as well as a pretty decent muzzle device.

YMMV

 

[THE BIG SITT]

Yes, building your own upper is a viable option, I have built many. However, there is some added costs to building your own, tools and what not, and if you plan on building a few uppers over time then it is sensible to go this route.

But again, the BCM is a good value and built properly considering it comes in the configuration you want with a BCG, a much better than stock CH as well as a pretty decent muzzle device.

YMMV

We should all pitch in for a set of tools for an upper and have an INGO upper tool set that can be passed amongst members.

 

[seedubs1]

There's tons of members on here that are more than happy to lend AR building tools.
(Me being one of them)
I think there's actually a thread in the gunsmithing forum dedicated to passing tools around, actually.

All that's really needed to build an upper is an upper receiver vice block and a vice. The rest is just punching pins in and a barrel nut tool depending on what hand guard you use. A torque wrench also comes in handy, but it isn't 100% necessary.

I think I got all of my upper build tools for about $30. Building it myself saved me more than $30, so I consider it a win. Plus, I know it was done right.

We should all pitch in for a set of tools for an upper and have an INGO upper tool set that can be passed amongst members.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

Instead of buying a PSA lpk and the ACT trigger seperately, but them together and save. Also, the Magpul sights can be found for much less. The BCM uppers are great but not worth the $$ in my opinion. Get a PSA CHF upper if that's the route you're looking to go, then add the handguard you want and save.

"much less" The only Magpul MBUS sights I've seen for "much less" are for Airsoft and not meant for an AR. Do you have a reliable source?

"BCM uppers are great but not worth the $$" Why do you say this? I'm always open to suggestions and would love to hear a dissenting opinion.

Get the BCM upper, quality costs money.

I also suggest taking your time and get exactly what you want, no sense on settle for components that you are not going to be happy with just to turn around and upgrade.

You can also find kit pricing on buttstocks with correct buffer tube and spring if you do your search and save your pennies.

I do have some time before I actually build but I am hoping to get a list finalized early so I can watch for sales! I'll have to poke around a bit longer on the buttstock options. Perhaps used on the Classifieds or through an auction site might come in handy here.

I bought this (RF 16" 5.56MM SOCOM Radical Rail Upper Assembly) upper a few weeks ago. I am still waiting for it to be shipped, but once I get some rounds down range I'll let you know how it goes. I had a 10.5" upper with the Seekins handguard and I loved it, but I decided against going the SBR route and sold the upper. I expect this one to be just as good.

As for Radical Firearms uppers, I don't doubt that there are better quality uppers out there. But for the money, and the fact we won't be using these in a war zone or in a national level competition, I don't think you can go wrong with them. Their entry level stuff is $20 cheaper than PSA's, and they come with a free float handguard. Plus, 10% off coupons are very easy to find for Radical Firearms.

I believe this isn't the first time you've posted that particular upper. I searched 8 pages of AR threads and saw quite a bit of info which I used to gather my initial list. I am still considering it even though my I know my wife will prefer a mid length over a carbine length gas tube and the BCM is higher quality.

Man, I'd recommend building your upper yourself. For a "budget" rifle, a $750 upper is pretty salty. Spend your money on getting a good barrel and BCG. If you build the entire rifle yourself, you should be able to do the whole build with really nice components for just the price of that upper.

Note: It seems like everyone is scared of building their own upper because that's where the "Bang" happens. Building an upper is easier than building the lower. If you can build a lower, you can do an upper no problem. Tons of instruction on the web regarding how to do it.

I hadn't really considered the idea of building my own upper due to the lack of experience and tools to do the job. I'll have to do some research on this because I want to do build my own upper eventually anyway but I was going to wait until I had more experienc... Great, now you've got me off on another researching binge!

 

[sig1473]

I have a PSA CHF upper and next to my Noveske CHF shooting there is no comparison. Even though they are both made @ FN, they are built to different specs and held to a different QC. What do you think happens to barrels that are rejected? Tossed in the trash? I'm willing to pay more for a quality barrel built to the correct specs and held to a higher QC. BCM puts out quality barrels and their reputation tells that. YMMV

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

I have a PSA CHF upper and next to my Noveske CHF shooting there is no comparison. Even though they are both made @ FN, they are built to different specs and held to a different QC. What do you think happens to barrels that are rejected? Tossed in the trash? I'm willing to pay more for a quality barrel built to the correct specs and held to a higher QC. BCM puts out quality barrels and their reputation tells that. YMMV

This is actually a big concern for me. This being my first build I want to make sure I do it right and I'll take the time to learn but as I now start researching barrels specifically I'm finding it a much more daunting task than just finding an upper from a quality manufacturer and making sure it fits my assigned requirements. I'm seeing a lot more to consider.

manufacturer, materials, weight, profile, finish, rifling...is CHF even worth the money or is it a marketing gimmick? These are all questions flooding my mind thanks to seedubs1. Not to mention the added question of cost and value. How much to spend?

I now know focus needs to be on a quality barrel and BCG. I now need to work on balancing total cost with the individual components.

 

[seedubs1]

Glad I could push you down the road of no return.

The nice thing is, you'll get to pick out exactly what you want. And you choose where your money goes (should be to the barrel, BCG, and trigger to start with).

Heres a short list of reasonably priced barrels that are exceptional:
White oak armament, rainier, Odin, spikes, lothar walther, Mega, voodoo, and ar15performance.
(Those are typically my go to brands before I step up to something like a Noveske, Compass Lake, or White oak precision)

For BCG's, I typically look for a good FULL mil spec or higher grade BCG. I and others have had a LOT of success with the PSA premium (make sure it's not the low end junk one) BCG, and it's REALLY well priced for what it is. Spikes and BCM also make a really nice mil spec BCG. Also look into the AIM Surplus BCGs. They stand behind their product 100% and are well known for good to go BCGs that are really well priced.

 

[throttletony]

If you watch the sales you can find an MBUS set for about $75 (Brownells, midway, etc -- and not the airsoft ones)

 

[yote hunter]

Are you just wanting to build or just wanting a AR to plink 0-100 ? If all you want is a AR to plink 0-100 you can get a complete factory AR for a lot less then $1000. but if your just wanting to build one then ? The cost for factory AR's are low right now so you should be able to pick one up for between $500-$800 OTD.... You can always make changes to a factory AR at any time later on as you see fit...

 

[THE BIG SITT]

]I believe this isn't the first time you've posted that particular upper. I searched 8 pages of AR threads and saw quite a bit of info which I used to gather my initial list. I am still considering it even though my I know my wife will prefer a mid length over a carbine length gas tube and the BCM is higher quality.

Not sure if I have mentioned that particular upper, but I have definitely mentioned the brand. I had nothing but good things to say about my pistol upper.

As for you wife preferring the mid-length over carbine, have either of you shot both? I have only ever shot a carbine length AR, but the recoil is minimal. Maybe try to find a carbine length AR for her to shoot before you spend more money on a mid-length (assuming that is your only concern). I will certainly let you shoot mine if you are near Indy.

And for all the other people recommending BCM, what will that upper do from 0-100 yards that the RF upper won't? I get "better quality", but what does that equate to? Lets say the BCM upper gets 1MOA while the RF does 2MOA. Is that extra inch worth $300 (don't ask my wife that question)? For me, not at all. That $300 could almost buy my M&P Shield. Now for someone else, who maybe puts 15,000 rounds down range in 12 months, then I could see it. But for me, that money is much better spent elsewhere.

EDIT: Found this link from arfcom where they talk about RF uppers. A guy posts his best group of 2MOA, and stated with better glass and a better trigger he could see it shrinking to 1MOA. Sure, it is only the word of "some guy" (especially on arfcom) but at least you know it can do 2MOA.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_2/424843_Is_Radical_Firearms__com_G2G_.html