Pedersoli 54 caliber Sharps Calvary Carbine has arrived!

[wildcatfan.62]

Thank you for your write ups on this journey. This is such a cool project. Looking forward to continued posts. Congrats!

 

[Dog1]

Thank you for your write ups on this journey. This is such a cool project. Looking forward to continued posts. Congrats!

Thank you! I really hope I can get it sorted out because I really want to fire this so bad it's not even funny. Starting to have dreams about it at night lol

 

[Ark]

Have you attempted to use flash paper or nitrided paper for the base of the cartridge?

 

[Dog1]

Have you attempted to use flash paper or nitrided paper for the base of the cartridge?

Yes I have. Three of the six cartridges nitride paper as bases. The spark is getting there but there's not enough flame to set everything off. I'm hoping that next week when I get the longer clean out screw that's going to help deflect the flame from the percussion cap better and more intense toward the base of the cartridge. If it doesn't I'll probably have to send it off to Charlie Hahn and have him go ahead and do what needs to be done to the floating chamber and then recut the fire path of the percussion cap so that it flows better.

Unfortunately it's probably going to be a bit before I send it off to him because he is just finished a battle with cancer. And he is still recovering from the chemotherapy and he is not taking any work right now

 

[Ark]

Yes I have. Three of the six cartridges nitride paper as bases. The spark is getting there but there's not enough flame to set everything off. I'm hoping that next week when I get the longer clean out screw that's going to help deflect the flame from the percussion cap better and more intense toward the base of the cartridge. If it doesn't I'll probably have to send it off to Charlie Hahn and have him go ahead and do what needs to be done to the floating chamber and then recut the fire path of the percussion cap so that it flows better.

Unfortunately it's probably going to be a bit before I send it off to him because he is just finished a battle with cancer. And he is still recovering from the chemotherapy and he is not taking any work right now

Sounded like you pretty much tried all the caps on the market. Too bad there isn't like a magnum cap that can push flame hotter and further. You're already using full house musket caps, right?

 

[patience0830]

Sounded like you pretty much tried all the caps on the market. Too bad there isn't like a magnum cap that can push flame hotter and further. You're already using full house musket caps, right?

BP ignites easiest over the substitutes. Have you tried that?

 

[Dog1]

Sounded like you pretty much tried all the caps on the market. Too bad there isn't like a magnum cap that can push flame hotter and further. You're already using full house musket caps, right?

Yes. I have tried the CCI multi-purpose caps- not the reenactor caps- RWS and Schutzen caps.

The problem with the Sharps is the path of the flame from the percussion cap, unlike say a musket which just has a straight down and hits the powder, it has to go straight down taking 90° turn to the left go about maybe a half an inch or just slightly less, then take another 90° turn to the right and then go through a small hole in the brass plug on the breach block.

In other words it takes the same path that the magic bullet fired by Oswald took in 63 in Dallas. There's a lot of turns it has to make and stay intact with enough thermal energy to ignite the powder.

 

[Dog1]

BP ignites easiest over the substitutes. Have you tried that?

I tried both black powder and the substitute Shooters World black. Neither would ignite

 

[Ark]

Yes. I have tried the CCI multi-purpose caps- not the reenactor caps- RWS and Schutzen caps.

The problem with the Sharps is the path of the flame from the percussion cap, unlike say a musket which just has a straight down and hits the powder, it has to go straight down taking 90° turn to the left go about maybe a half an inch or just slightly less, then take another 90° turn to the right and then go through a small hole in the brass plug on the breach block.

In other words it takes the same path that the magic bullet fired by Oswald took in 63 in Dallas. There's a lot of turns it has to make and stay intact with enough thermal energy to ignite the powder.

Is that flame path faithful to the original design? Because those guns worked fine, far as I know.

Super frustrating, man, Pedersolis are not cheap guns to be experiencing failures to fire with.

 

[Dog1]

Is that flame path faithful to the original design? Because those guns worked fine, far as I know.

Super frustrating, man, Pedersolis are not cheap guns to be experiencing failures to fire with.

Yeah the flame path is pretty much faithful to the original design but part of a problem also is that the cleanout screw is too short. The original one was longer and for whatever reason they went with a shorter design for the clean out screw. So that ends up really messing with the path the flame takes. Another issue is that the percussion nipple that comes with it is oddly shaped. So I replaced it after reading multiple posts on the NSSA website about changing out the nipple from the one that comes with it to a different profile musket nipple. One of the things people do is they open up the flame hole or they use a shot out musket nipple in it. I've already did that to this one.

Based on my discussions with Charlie Hahn the biggest issue with the disruption of the flame path is the shortened cleanout screw which his longer one that he makes should correct a lot of the problem.

One also must remember that the original 1858 model was designed for the paper tail cartridges which originally would sheer off the end of the cartridge when you raised the breach block exposing the black powder. The problem with that was that when you sheared off the rear of the cartridge to expose the powder you also deposited a lot of loose black powder into the breach block it would get down into the forearm recess between it and the barrel eventually it would build up and sometimes it would detonate when the percussion cap went off, shattering the wooden forearm and probably creating a skid mark in the Troopers pants.


While my cartridges that I have been making are the proper length I think I need to go back and look at them and tweak them so that the base of the cartridge essentially is coming in complete contact with the breach when it's being raised so that it brings the flame hole of the brass plug as close as possible. It's going to be more trial and error but I'm not going to give up on it

 

[Ark]

Yeah the flame path is pretty much faithful to the original design but part of a problem also is that the cleanout screw is too short. The original one was longer and for whatever reason they went with a shorter design for the clean out screw. So that ends up really messing with the path the flame takes. Another issue is that the percussion nipple that comes with it is oddly shaped. So I replaced it after reading multiple posts on the NSSA website about changing out the nipple from the one that comes with it to a different profile musket nipple. One of the things people do is they open up the flame hole or they use a shot out musket nipple in it. I've already did that to this one.

Based on my discussions with Charlie Hahn the biggest issue with the disruption of the flame path is the shortened cleanout screw which his longer one that he makes should correct a lot of the problem.

One also must remember that the original 1858 model was designed for the paper tail cartridges which originally would sheer off the end of the cartridge when you raised the breach block exposing the black powder. The problem with that was that when you sheared off the rear of the cartridge to expose the powder you also deposited a lot of loose black powder into the breach block it would get down into the forearm recess between it and the barrel eventually it would build up and sometimes it would detonate when the percussion cap went off, shattering the wooden forearm and probably creating a skid mark in the Troopers pants.


While my cartridges that I have been making are the proper length I think I need to go back and look at them and tweak them so that the base of the cartridge essentially is coming in complete contact with the breach when it's being raised so that it brings the flame hole of the brass plug as close as possible. It's going to be more trial and error but I'm not going to give up on it

Right, I forgot that they were actually intended to shear the cartridge. I understand not wanting to take that spillage risk on a $2000 gun.

 

[Dog1]

Right, I forgot that they were actually intended to shear the cartridge. I understand not wanting to take that spillage risk on a $2000 gun.

The problem with also shearing the cartridge tail off is that the spillage of powder also created inconsistent velocities in accuracy. In addition to the exploding forearms, the inconsistent accuracy with powder spillage is why they came up with the combustible self-contained cartridge that didn't shear off the tail.

 

[Dog1]

Qapla'! (Klingon for success)

Today I received from Mr Hahn the new longer cleanout screw. The flame from the cap is much more directed and pronounced now, with the result being, other than I need to do a better job in getting the base of my cartridges closer to the flame hole, that I had four for four cartridge ignitions after putting in the new clean out screw.

I am absolutely giddy! My neighbors are probably wondering what's going on but what the hell right? So now I need to do a better job of getting the bases of my cartridges farther out behind the end of the cartridge but other than that, I think I now can get to the range

 

[Slow Hand]

The "Newest" 1859 Sharps Carbines from Pedersoli

So I have an old military model Pedersoli Sharps built in 1993, and I had it sent out to Larry Flees who did the chamber job on it and it works great. My question is, that I noticed Pedersoli has changed the way they make the breech face plate, and now it apparently has o-rings a stainless tell...

www.muzzleloadingforum.com

I’ll be honest, I was having a bit of troutlet understanding some of your issues with the clean out screw causing you probless so I did some googling. I came across the above forum thread amd it helped some (I assume). It’s kind of crazy to see a screw direct the flash to your cartridges, but I’m glad you got it working correctly!

 

[Dog1]

The "Newest" 1859 Sharps Carbines from Pedersoli

So I have an old military model Pedersoli Sharps built in 1993, and I had it sent out to Larry Flees who did the chamber job on it and it works great. My question is, that I noticed Pedersoli has changed the way they make the breech face plate, and now it apparently has o-rings a stainless tell...

www.muzzleloadingforum.com

I’ll be honest, I was having a bit of troutlet understanding some of your issues with the clean out screw causing you probless so I did some googling. I came across the above forum thread amd it helped some (I assume). It’s kind of crazy to see a screw direct the flash to your cartridges, but I’m glad you got it working correctly!

I was having the same trouble understanding how a short clean out screw could mess with the flame that bad. But now that I've seen how it has changed the way the flame hits the cartridge I totally understand it now and it's weird how it does that

 

[Slow Hand]

It’s almost like it should have a more important name!