Open Carry in Philadelphia

[jsgolfman]

How dare the serfs challenge the king?

 

[CarmelHP]

It's simple really.

Just because it's legal doesn't mean you shouldn't have cops pointing weapons at you, screaming profanities at you, threatening you, making you kneel, making you put your hands above your head, detaining you, handcuffing you, putting you in a confined area (paddy wagon), lecturing you, and asking questions in loud voices then not letting you answer.

But then, that sounds like all the reasons you don't do something that's illegal.

Maybe I don't understand after all.

You don't understand. I've heard Philadelphia cops say 10 times worse to people and throw 'em in a paddy wagon for looking cross-eyed at 'em. What's all this about rights? Pansy.

 

[Roadie]

Let me get this straight, so you're saying, "to hell with the law, if some people don't like it, it's the same as being illegal?" Because that sure sounds like that's what you're saying. If he has a license, open carry is legal in Philadelphia, regardless of what the police or anyone else think.

I just listened to the recording, idiot Philadelphia cops.

I know this thread was dying, but...lol

"to hell with the law, if some people don't like it, it's the same as being illegal?"

Isn't that basically what the attorney in the Liberty Sanders thread was saying? They dont like guns in Carmel, so law be damned..

 

[INGunGuy]

Worthless POS cops deserve a damn jail cell. I hope the man sues the police department the city of Philadelphia and he get a billion dollars. I absolutely hate to hear crap like this. The unfortunate problem is that the police have NO IDEA what the law is, and they think they can make the laws "on-the-fly". They are NOTHING MORE THAN ENEMIES OF THE REPUBLIC.

INGunGuy

 

[BigGuyinMuncie]

I can't see a link to the article or clip that you are discussing? Where can I see the video. From the sound of it, I think it is something that I should see. Thanks

 

[SirRealism]

I can't see a link to the article or clip that you are discussing? Where can I see the video. From the sound of it, I think it is something that I should see. Thanks

Yeah, for some reason, the links on the first page of this thread disappeared. Here you go:

Philadelphia Open-carrier Harassed by Police with Audio
and
Arrested by the Philadelphia Police for Open Carry

 

[Armed Eastsider]

I seriously hate cops. Let there be anarchy, we will be better off.

 

[Love the 1911]

I'm about 8 minutes into the first recording and I'm getting very angry at the lack of respect that the entire situation started and continued with. I have never and will never drop any 4 letter words (out of anger) to someone I am interacting with whether I am working or on my own time. Despite how bad this audio recording is and reflects on certain member of LE, this quote:

I seriously hate cops. Let there be anarchy, we will be better off.

is complete bull and appears to be very close to violating posted rules of INGO.

Posting about inciting civil war
Just so we're clear:

ANY post suggesting or advocating civil war, inciting violence against the government or any other similar post will not be tolerated and will be summarily deleted. This forum is presented (for free) to the members of this board and the owner has asked that posts of that nature not be made.

This board is dedicated to guns and gun-related issues, and NOT as Ground Zero for the Revolution. This issue is now closed for discussion.

If you hate all cops so much, you should find other places to spend your time where cops don't hang out. There are members on here that don't like cops but use their posts to attempt to educate and understand local LEO's that are on this site. Just because I wear a badge does not mean that I automatically get respect (words of multiple posters on INGO), it also should not mean that I am automatically hated.

 

[Chefcook]

This is where I grew up. Eastern and south eastern Pa. Let me start by saying Pa is a sportsman's state. Everyone hunts everyone fishes the first day of deer season and the first day of trout season may as well be religious holidays because 75% of the kids in elementary and High school dont show up. Conservation and hunters safety is taught in public schools. Having said that transporting any firearm anywhere is perfectly acceptable so long as you follow simple guidelines like the firearm is unloaded and cased, when we went to go hunting or to the range. We used to roll our shotguns and rifles/handguns up in blankets or in the afghans my mom used to crochet. While the actual laws are a little shaky in terms that they state you need a license you really do not because no officer would ever try to enforce or arrest you for following these guidelines. This is where society comes in. It is socially acceptable to transport firearms as I have stated so therefore its legal because its not only socially acceptable to individuals but its cool with the powers that be as well. That is how it is taught in hunters safety. In other words if you are dressed for hunting and on your way to or from a hunt or if you are on your way to or from the range as long as your weapon is in a case and not loaded you are good to go you need no license of any kind. Here is where the part comes in that is the topic of this discussion. In Pa you need a license to carry a concealed firearm however there is a loophole in the law that states you do not need any licensing to carry openly. Now I know this is not the law it is not how the law is written but this is how it is. If you want to carry openly, only do so on your own property, outside of your own land or outside of while you are like deer hunting if you want to carry a pistol you better have a permit, and you had better carry concealed. No one other than the police open carry in Pa. For that matter no one carries concealed unless they are a bounty hunter or a process server or someone that deems a need to, like I drop off the deposit after work every night. Open carry is not accepted socially and the mind for the need of it does not exist. So yea you dont need a license to open carry in Pa. But I will guarantee you if you try to do it you better have deep pockets to prove your case in court.. Indiana's Law is just as screwed up. You dont need an LTCH to purchase a handgun or to transport that handgun home, However once its in your home you cant do anything with it outside of your home until you get an LTCH and the ability to make the initial purchase has no bearing on rather or not you qualify for an LTCH. You might have a clean slate with the FBI but have some silly little insurrection as far as the state police are concerned, and even then you could open carry an AR-15 everywhere you went and be within your rights?? All the gun laws are irrational. Debating them and trying to make since of them is equally as irrational. The only thing that will make a difference is people and what they see, how your average person perceives things is what will prevail...

 

[Armed Eastsider]

Posting about inciting civil war
Just so we're clear:

ANY post suggesting or advocating civil war, inciting violence against the government or any other similar post will not be tolerated and will be summarily deleted. This forum is presented (for free) to the members of this board and the owner has asked that posts of that nature not be made.

I never said anything about a civil war, all I said was we would be better off without cops, and we would just police ourselves. That has nothing to do with overthrowing the government.

 

[CarmelHP]

....In Pa you need a license to carry a concealed firearm however there is a loophole in the law that states you do not need any licensing to carry openly. Now I know this is not the law it is not how the law is written but this is how it is. If you want to carry openly, only do so on your own property, outside of your own land or outside of while you are like deer hunting if you want to carry a pistol you better have a permit, and you had better carry concealed. No one other than the police open carry in Pa. For that matter no one carries concealed unless they are a bounty hunter or a process server or someone that deems a need to, like I drop off the deposit after work every night. Open carry is not accepted socially and the mind for the need of it does not exist. So yea you dont need a license to open carry in Pa. But I will guarantee you if you try to do it you better have deep pockets to prove your case in court.. Indiana's Law is just as screwed up. You dont need an LTCH to purchase a handgun or to transport that handgun home, However once its in your home you cant do anything with it outside of your home until you get an LTCH and the ability to make the initial purchase has no bearing on rather or not you qualify for an LTCH....

I hold a Pennsylvania law license, as well as an Indiana license. In Pennsylvania, in most of the state, it is legal to open carry without a license. The exception to open carry without a license is in "cities of the first class" (over 1 million in population) which includes ONLY Philadelphia. In cities of the first class, a license to carry handgun is necessary for legal open or concealed carry. In the rest of the state a license is only required for concealed carry. Both Indiana and Pennsylvania are "shall issue" licensing states meaning that unless the issuing agency can show a statutory reason for denial, they must issue the license. I don't know when you left PA, but 25 years or so ago, things were different. Before the law was changed, it was entirely up to the county sheriff whether to issue a license and was a source of graft and political rewards. It different now, and there is a very politically active carry movement that has improved the law greatly.

 

[Chefcook]

I hold a Pennsylvania law license, as well as an Indiana license. In Pennsylvania, in most of the state, it is legal to open carry without a license. The exception to open carry without a license is in "cities of the first class" (over 1 million in population) which includes ONLY Philadelphia. In cities of the first class, a license to carry handgun is necessary for legal open or concealed carry. In the rest of the state a license is only required for concealed carry. Both Indiana and Pennsylvania are "shall issue" licensing states meaning that unless the issuing agency can show a statutory reason for denial, they must issue the license. I don't know when you left PA, but 25 years or so ago, things were different. Before the law was changed, it was entirely up to the county sheriff whether to issue a license and was a source of graft and political rewards. It different now, and there is a very politically active carry movement that has improved the law greatly.

I moved from Pa when I was 21 so it was 24 years ago. In the years as I was growing up I never ever saw a civilian open carry a handgun in public. It was not uncommon however to see 12 to 15 year old kids walking down the side of the road with long guns during hunting season. I one time cased and slung my rifle over my back and rode my bicycle to go deer hunting.
I am not claiming to have any working knowledge of what the actual law there states. I was speaking towards what at that time the general population even among sportsmen deemed as appropriate. In response to the OP the point I was trying to make is right or wrong legal or not in Pa if you open carry a handgun especially in town your gonna get hassled so if you choose to exercise that right you need to be prepared.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I particularly enjoyed the technique where they asked him questions and then interupted to argue before he'd even finished his sentence.

dross, it's called baiting. Very old cop trick to provoke you into arguing and then they pound you for "fighting".

Ask the individual a question, refuse to allow him to answer, ask another question, refuse that answer and sooner or later those not so acclimated to police techniques will be upset.

 

[dross]

dross, it's called baiting. Very old cop trick to provoke you into arguing and then they pound you for "fighting".

Ask the individual a question, refuse to allow him to answer, ask another question, refuse that answer and sooner or later those not so acclimated to police techniques will be upset.

I think I'd use the technique I used in the Army against that kind of behavior. Useful in basic training when being hammered by a Drill Sergeant, or later by a Sergeant Major when you took a shortcut across the grass in front of this office.

The technique involves putting the tiniest of grins on your face (and pretending you don't know you're grinning) and keeping quiet except to pretend you don't understand any of the questions.

 

[dross]

You don't understand. I've heard Philadelphia cops say 10 times worse to people and throw 'em in a paddy wagon for looking cross-eyed at 'em. What's all this about rights? Pansy.

Kinda' brings up the question of which is worser - someone who breaks an existing law, or someone who enforces a law that doesn't exist.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

dross, the goal is to be cool under fire. E.g. when Officer Cowboy was spitting and yelling at me, aka the Coffee Carrier, aka the Browning Bandit of Broad Ripple, aka Three Gun Kirk, he was attempting to provoke a fight.

A fight that we cannot win. Be cool, ask if you are free to go, and blow kisses at them.

 

[CarmelHP]

Kinda' brings up the question of which is worser - someone who breaks an existing law, or someone who enforces a law that doesn't exist.

Wouldn't it be much more worser not to try to get him on something? (I'm sure T. Lex will back that up.) Spacco il capo!

 

[dross]

Wouldn't it be much more worser not to try to get him on something? (I'm sure T. Lex will back that up.) Spacco il capo!

And as at least one of the officers on this board has explained, if they're not breaking a law right now it probably means they were tipped off.

 

[SirRealism]

Update: Mark Fiorino found a lawyer to take his case. He has set up a fundraiser to help pay for his legal fees for both his criminal defense and a civil suit. The ACLU has also expressed some interest in his case.

But, lo and behold, a couple days ago (2 months after the incident), 5 cops showed up at his place of work with a warrant for his arrest. He was not at work, and so was able to contact a lawyer and then give himself up. He has been charged with disorderly conduct and reckless endangerment. He spent some time in jail — it's hard to tell how long, but it seems to have been less than 24 hours.

It's hard to believe that he was charged with DC and RE, considering he was polite and kept his legally-carried firearm in its holster. The cops, on the other hand, drew and pointed their guns at him, and shouted obscenities & berated him. No charges against them.

(The above was gleaned from the PAFOA web site. I have no firsthand knowledge of any of this.)

 

[gunman41mag]

Update: Mark Fiorino found a lawyer to take his case. He has set up a fundraiser to help pay for his legal fees for both his criminal defense and a civil suit. The ACLU has also expressed some interest in his case.

But, lo and behold, a couple days ago (2 months after the incident), 5 cops showed up at his place of work with a warrant for his arrest. He was not at work, and so was able to contact a lawyer and then give himself up. He has been charged with disorderly conduct and reckless endangerment. He spent some time in jail — it's hard to tell how long, but it seems to have been less than 24 hours.

It's hard to believe that he was charged with DC and RE, considering he was polite and kept his legally-carried firearm in its holster. The cops, on the other hand, drew and pointed their guns at him, and shouted obscenities & berated him. No charges against them.

(The above was gleaned from the PAFOA web site. I have no firsthand knowledge of any of this.)

lets hope MARK can win his case & sue PHILLY