Indy_Guy_77
Grandmaster
- Apr 30, 2008
- 16,576
- 48
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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
On Monday September 1st
- Thread starter Mr.Hoppes
- Start date
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minuteman32
Expert
You can carry any handgun you legally possess, any way you choose in IN. Open, concealed, whatever. As long as you have an LTC, you're legal.
That said, I tend to conceal 99.9% of the time (when not in uniform). While it is ones right to carry openly (once the state tax is paid for the LTC), I am more than willing to take out the bad guy when they shoot the open carrier to take his gun. At least his attn. will be off of me while I draw & shoot Mr. Armed Robber, and I won't be the 1st one shot.
That said, I tend to conceal 99.9% of the time (when not in uniform). While it is ones right to carry openly (once the state tax is paid for the LTC), I am more than willing to take out the bad guy when they shoot the open carrier to take his gun. At least his attn. will be off of me while I draw & shoot Mr. Armed Robber, and I won't be the 1st one shot.
ryanmercer
Expert
I was implying, but I guess after reading it it wasn't too clear... that an arrest would be made.
Although, harassment and abuse of authority spring to mind if they didn't.
Coming from another small town, I can understand your concern. Perhaps you could stop by the Sheriff's office and just tell them that it seems like there is some confusion on the issue and ask if they could give you a note signed by the Sheriff stating you are within your rights to carry open. You haven't ratted anyone out that way.
A LEO telling you OC is illegal is not lawsuit worthy. False arrest, false imprisonment, defamation of character, and slander are.
This is why I said that if I was certain I was 100% legal, I'd like to think I'd politely and calmly tell the officer what I said: "If you think you have probable cause to arrest me for a law that doesn't exist, feel free to do so-I will not resist you doing so. You and your department will be named together in the lawsuits I file, however." No resistance. Absolute, unfailing politeness and respect shown. No excuse for any tasers, pepper spray, batons, etc. Open carry of a handgun is as unlawful as open carry of car keys or ball-point pens.
I have bills to pay, too, but I have no need for tax money to be used to make me independently wealthy. That would not be money I'd earned. I might well be convinced/willing to settle for a judgement in my favor, my court costs and attorney's fees paid, and the assurance that this issue would be addressed such that the local police would never, EVER again harass a law-abiding citizen who chose to OC his firearm. THAT is my goal, and I'd like to have it not cost me any cash out of pocket when it's all said and done. It would be very nice to set a precedent as well.
Blessings,
B
You were in the right. You fears here seem extreme to me. Police officers are not going to get away with extracting revenge on you in this manner. You accept responsibility for you and your families defense. Don't take counsel of your fears. Speak up and call the sheriff and let him know about this mistake.
More misconception with zero facts behind such a statement. If anything OC is a deterrent. Read up, samaritan.
Soundslikejosh
Master
See the attitude
But see my point. This is the attitude from a LEO.( If he really is what he claims to be) If He'll say that much on a message board think what he'll do in person.
But see my point. This is the attitude from a LEO.( If he really is what he claims to be) If He'll say that much on a message board think what he'll do in person.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
With all due respect sir, please don't be jumping to conclusions and, or piling on. I (and many others) can and will attest to this man's profession and knowledge of the subject.
ryanmercer
Expert
Children, play nice.
Okay . . . here's the deal with Terre Haute (and perhaps Vigo Co. when in Terre Haute).
Those of us who were regulars at the Indiana Clubhouse on Glocktalk.com have dealt with or been privy to this ongoing problem for at least a few years.
The problem is this:
A lot (by this I mean at least a noteworth minority) of police officers and their management in Terre Haute are virulently opposed to you having what they see as a "privilege" to have a gun, much less carry it in public. This attitude pervades their institution. When you carry openly, they really, really don't like.
Now, here is where it gets more complicated. For years, the Terre Haute PD (and perhaps Vigo Co.) have been lying to people claiming it was illegal to carry openly, sometimes stating it was against state law, and other times "citing" a FICTITIOUS city ordnance that allegedly prohibits open carry in Terre Haute (again, there is NO SUCH ORDINANCE). The reason why I say it's complicated is because it's unclear which officers/adminstrators are just ignorant of the law (i.e. acting on what they're told, even though it's wrong on every level), and which are telling bold-faced lies in an attempt to force their whims on the public. Some of them know very well that there is no such law and ordinance, but choose to lie about it anyway in order to further their own agendae.
I'm not sure which is worse (the ignorance or the lies), but both are unacceptable. If they don't want people carrying guns they need to admit it publicly and accept the ensuing political backlash, but honesty on this issue is not something that is forthcoming in Terre Haute, at least in the past up to the time I write this.
When you ask them to cite the law or the ordinance, you won't get very far. They will typically either ignore you, change the subject, or bully you in some other way. If you have your attorney write a letter to the chief or sheriff, the best you will get is that they will admit they don't know of any such law or ordinance, but typically such letters are summarily ignored.
There are a couple of bottoms lines here.
First and foremost, it is not against the law to carry openly if you have a valid License to Carry Handgun. Anyone who disputes that is unequivocally wrong and either ignorant of the law or a liar (or both). Whether or not it is a good idea to do so at any given place and time is a completely separate issue.
The other thing is that cops can pretty much do anything they want to do to you at the time. It may be illegal and they may get disciplined, fired, arrested, or otherwise penalized, but as it stands now, cops are all-powerful on the scene. That's beyond wrong, but we collectively as a society have allowed our system to degrade to the point where such things are true (which is a separate but related issue). In that context, you have to make some decisions ahead of time how you're going to conduct yourself when they choose to approach you, whether it's for entirely legimitate purposes, or otherwise (such as their "crusade" against open carry). You can't win an argument or fight even if you're in the right on the scene. Keep that in mind and act accordingly, then address your concerns through more effective channels afterward.
I'll add some more opinion here, and this is just conjecture on my part. I think that in at least some cases, the Terre Haute cops who are doing this (that know fully well that they are lying) are trying to bait you into getting angry. Once you're angry, it's a short trip to where some people will behave in a way that they can arrest you for disorderly conduct, which is within the scope of their duties. Some of them are master manipulators (due to experience) and we all need to be aware. Do not fall into their trap.
Given all of that, some might say it's just a good idea to avoid open carry in Terre Haute. There is merit in that, but sometimes the path of least resistance is really just a defeatist attitude. I carry openly in Terre Haute and the surrounding area frequently (never had any kind of a problem) for my own reasons. I'm not trying to "flaunt" anything in front of the local LEOs who have a problem with it, but I'm certainly not going to let them control me either. That's how I roll.
We all need to make our own decisions for our own reasons and we're all responsible for our own actions. When doing so, we need to keep in mind the potential consequences and decide ahead of time if it's worth it to us. Part of that is knowing about any abberrent local practices (such as the Terre Haute LEO community's attitude and actions toward lawful carry).
Maybe it's time to have an open carry lunch or dinner in Terre Haute in an establishment that is not opposed to it.
Those of us who were regulars at the Indiana Clubhouse on Glocktalk.com have dealt with or been privy to this ongoing problem for at least a few years.
The problem is this:
A lot (by this I mean at least a noteworth minority) of police officers and their management in Terre Haute are virulently opposed to you having what they see as a "privilege" to have a gun, much less carry it in public. This attitude pervades their institution. When you carry openly, they really, really don't like.
Now, here is where it gets more complicated. For years, the Terre Haute PD (and perhaps Vigo Co.) have been lying to people claiming it was illegal to carry openly, sometimes stating it was against state law, and other times "citing" a FICTITIOUS city ordnance that allegedly prohibits open carry in Terre Haute (again, there is NO SUCH ORDINANCE). The reason why I say it's complicated is because it's unclear which officers/adminstrators are just ignorant of the law (i.e. acting on what they're told, even though it's wrong on every level), and which are telling bold-faced lies in an attempt to force their whims on the public. Some of them know very well that there is no such law and ordinance, but choose to lie about it anyway in order to further their own agendae.
I'm not sure which is worse (the ignorance or the lies), but both are unacceptable. If they don't want people carrying guns they need to admit it publicly and accept the ensuing political backlash, but honesty on this issue is not something that is forthcoming in Terre Haute, at least in the past up to the time I write this.
When you ask them to cite the law or the ordinance, you won't get very far. They will typically either ignore you, change the subject, or bully you in some other way. If you have your attorney write a letter to the chief or sheriff, the best you will get is that they will admit they don't know of any such law or ordinance, but typically such letters are summarily ignored.
There are a couple of bottoms lines here.
First and foremost, it is not against the law to carry openly if you have a valid License to Carry Handgun. Anyone who disputes that is unequivocally wrong and either ignorant of the law or a liar (or both). Whether or not it is a good idea to do so at any given place and time is a completely separate issue.
The other thing is that cops can pretty much do anything they want to do to you at the time. It may be illegal and they may get disciplined, fired, arrested, or otherwise penalized, but as it stands now, cops are all-powerful on the scene. That's beyond wrong, but we collectively as a society have allowed our system to degrade to the point where such things are true (which is a separate but related issue). In that context, you have to make some decisions ahead of time how you're going to conduct yourself when they choose to approach you, whether it's for entirely legimitate purposes, or otherwise (such as their "crusade" against open carry). You can't win an argument or fight even if you're in the right on the scene. Keep that in mind and act accordingly, then address your concerns through more effective channels afterward.
I'll add some more opinion here, and this is just conjecture on my part. I think that in at least some cases, the Terre Haute cops who are doing this (that know fully well that they are lying) are trying to bait you into getting angry. Once you're angry, it's a short trip to where some people will behave in a way that they can arrest you for disorderly conduct, which is within the scope of their duties. Some of them are master manipulators (due to experience) and we all need to be aware. Do not fall into their trap.
Given all of that, some might say it's just a good idea to avoid open carry in Terre Haute. There is merit in that, but sometimes the path of least resistance is really just a defeatist attitude. I carry openly in Terre Haute and the surrounding area frequently (never had any kind of a problem) for my own reasons. I'm not trying to "flaunt" anything in front of the local LEOs who have a problem with it, but I'm certainly not going to let them control me either. That's how I roll.
We all need to make our own decisions for our own reasons and we're all responsible for our own actions. When doing so, we need to keep in mind the potential consequences and decide ahead of time if it's worth it to us. Part of that is knowing about any abberrent local practices (such as the Terre Haute LEO community's attitude and actions toward lawful carry).
Maybe it's time to have an open carry lunch or dinner in Terre Haute in an establishment that is not opposed to it.
Dude, dude, dude! We agree on 99.9999% of everything, but I have to challenge you here. I just gotta!
When was the last time anyone who was carrying openly (not including police officers) was "the 1st one shot"? When was the last time anyone who carried openly was shot at all? Or robbed? Or otherwise assaulted (except maybe by the Terre Haute/Vigo Co. police)?
You don't hear about it because it doesn't happen. Why? I'm not going to speculate, but we can't keep spreading this myth that carrying openly somehow makes someone a primary target for miscreants. One thing we know beyond any doubt is that most criminals seek the weakest prey for their victims. Clearly armed private citizens do not fall into that category.
The situation can't be compared to attacks on police officers (almost all of whom carry openly) because the entire equation is different. The people who will attack cops are specifically selecting them for other reasons, not attacking them because they are a victim of opportunity.
Last edited:
Soundslikejosh
Master
+2 for Rhino. It is clear from bwframe that minuteman is a respectable and worthy fellow, so it's not intended to be piling on, rather, a discussion where we don't all reach the same conclusions. Rhino's post does an excellent job, so I don't have to rehash the story. As a parting shot, LTCH may not be granted until the state is paid their dues, but that has no bearing on when the right exists. Not to get all semantic, but its a right, not a priveledge. Thus, it is a citizen's right until they act criminally. That right is not validated or invalidated by ownership of a LTCH.
Please don't misunderstand this as an attack.
Please don't misunderstand this as an attack.
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