BehindBlueI's
Grandmaster
- Oct 3, 2012
- 25,897
- 113
(A Murder Board is where you present an idea and everyone tries to find fault/present counter-arguments as a method of testing the soundness of the decision)
Ok, talk me out of it/poke holes in my logic of selecting a Ram 2500 Power Wagon over the Ford F-150 Tremor:
My wife told me to buy a new truck and give mine to my son and it's been made clear to me that the instructions were literal in that she would prefer the new truck be a new truck. I tried to buy a PW out of Louisiana and got scooped at the last minute, so now it's 2023 ordering time regardless of it's Ford or Ram.
Intended use: Long distance recreational trips, occasional hardware store runs, inclimate weather use on occasion, 200-ish mile round trips to my rural property and friends/family visits. Limited but occasional off road/trail use. Service roads and light to moderate trails at best. The occasional trip to TX, CO, UT but anything further would be very rare.
Power Train (mild win PW). The 6.4/8 speed is just a smoother power train. The Ford F-150 Tremor was quicker without a doubt, but also clunkier. Turbos, wastegates, and that 10 speed did not make a smooth "2 lane passing" sort of manuever when you got on it hard then left off suddenly. If you stay in it, it takes a bit to catch but then it's gone. I think it's more the 10 speed than the motor, but it's there. The PW is not as quick but is more predicatable and linear, if that makes sense. The big NA motor just does it's thing without drama and the 8 speed is dialed in. Tremor passes in less space, though, and feels sportier.
Interior (strong win PW). Honestly, no comparison. The Ram's interior is just nicer when comparing top trim to top trim. Both are comfortable, but the Ram is slightly more so. The leather and the plastics in the Tremor look cheaper when viewed side by side. Which is fair given that it is cheaper, which we'll touch on in a bit.
Exterior (mild win PW). This is really subjective, but I like the Ram more. Not enough that it's a big deal, but especially with Tracer graphics and the top trim with the vertical grill, I like it more than the Tremor. I really don't like the extreme rake of the Tremor, but a level will take care of that so it's a non-issue.
Price (strong win Tremor). Optioned the way I want them, roughly $8k difference in price (that's actual purchase price, not MSRP, both through Granger). This isn't entirely fair, as some features that would come with the Tremor will not be on the PW but come standard with the high package. A true apples to apples would be closer to $10k. I just don't care enough about lane assist, emergency braking, etc. to buy the safety package on the PW.
Technology (mild win Tremor). Tremor's tech package has more stuff like drive modes and comes with more driver assist stuff standard. The display is fully digital, although the rumor is the 2023 PW will be as well. I kind of like the mix of analog/digital the current one has, though.
Trucky-ness (mild win PW). Honestly not that much more capable in terms of payload due to the soft springs, it's a very light 3/4 ton or a heavy 1/2 ton as far as that goes. But, 6'4" bed. I have been hesitant to go to a 5.5" bed for a few reasons, not least of which is I can sleep in the 6'4" bed with an air mattress and mosquito net as well as more easily do the hardware store runs over a 5.5' bed. I don't plan to tow anything, and if I do it's unlikely it would stress a Rav-4 so the mild differences in towing capacity is a non-issue for me.
Urban use (very mild win Tremor). Tremor is 7" shorter (length) and 1" shorter (height). Width is fractions of an inch difference. Both have cameras, cross path detection for backing out of head-in curb spots, etc. The PW has ****ing fantastic visibility. Neither is going to be fun to find a parking structure for, but Tremor will be slightly easier to parallel park or head in park.
Highway use (very mild win PW). The ride quality of the PW surprised me. The F-150 unladen is more bouncy and floaty, especially in the rear, but it's only noticable on really bad sections of road, like hitting a big ass chuckhole on an on ramp. The PW feels planted regardless, and thanks to the soft springs and the fact it's coils it rides very nicely. Really surprising for a 3/4 ton. *BUT* range sucks. 16mpg is realistic from everything I've read, 31 gallon tank. So usuable range of around 400-ish miles. I'm used to 500-ish, and the Tremor is around 600-ish. I value both relatively equally, and a part of me says it's easy to swap shocks and it's easy to carry gas cans, so neither is likely insurmountable. The visibility from the PW is ****ing incredible, though. It still has the 4th gen cab dimensions so you sit up higher in the cab than the 5th gen Ram, add in the extra ride height, and it's like driving a brontosaurus.
Infotainment (draw). Ford has more intuitive physical buttons, Ram has some buttons but wants you to use the screen for more stuff. Both have nice screens. Factory sound system is better in the Ram, but not dramatically so. I find Uconnect understands my voice commands more reliably than Sync, but haven't gotten to play with the latest versions of either that's in these trucks much.
Desire to screw-with-it-ness (win PW). Bed cover and rock rails, eventually 35" tires when the OEMs are done and maybe upgrade the shocks when the OEMs are done. I don't see anything else I need or want. Tremor? I'm going to **** with it. I'll want the extra HP from a 93 only tune, it needs a level and tires out of the gate. I want a winch, since I'll be alone most of the time on trails, which will be a bother on the Tremor since you need to relocate the intercooler. Which, while you're in there you might as well get an aftermarket one for more cooling...
Longevity (no crystal ball, but guessing...PW?). I just can't imagine a twin turbo V6 is going to last as long as a NA V8, but maybe I'm wrong. Both transmissions are apparently well proven. The ball joints, etc. on the PW are the same as the other 2500s so made for the extra 600-ish lbs of a diesel motor. That's got to be good for longevity, right? I've not had rust issues with my 2012 Ram since I take care of it. I'll fluid film the PW and keep it nice as well, so corrosion shouldn't be a concern.
Misc: PW is going to take longer to be delivered, per guesstimates. I'm ordering from Granger in Iowa either way, Ford or Ram, and they think they'd get the Tremor quicker. I'm not super worried about it, but if I could get it today I could get 2.5% interest at my credit union. I don't *have* to finance, but I think I want to at 2.5%. I just doubt that rate is still there in 6-9 months. Fuel costs aren't a huge concern, but 16mpg highway vs 20mpg highway but 87 octane vs 93 octane for best performance (you *can* use 87 in the Ford, you just lose power). Given the spread in per gallon costs, probably not that big a deal. Especially no more than I drive. Plates and insurance costs are pretty samey-same.
So, what'd I miss? Any compelling reason, other than wallet cramps, to not go with the PW?
Ok, talk me out of it/poke holes in my logic of selecting a Ram 2500 Power Wagon over the Ford F-150 Tremor:
My wife told me to buy a new truck and give mine to my son and it's been made clear to me that the instructions were literal in that she would prefer the new truck be a new truck. I tried to buy a PW out of Louisiana and got scooped at the last minute, so now it's 2023 ordering time regardless of it's Ford or Ram.
Intended use: Long distance recreational trips, occasional hardware store runs, inclimate weather use on occasion, 200-ish mile round trips to my rural property and friends/family visits. Limited but occasional off road/trail use. Service roads and light to moderate trails at best. The occasional trip to TX, CO, UT but anything further would be very rare.
Power Train (mild win PW). The 6.4/8 speed is just a smoother power train. The Ford F-150 Tremor was quicker without a doubt, but also clunkier. Turbos, wastegates, and that 10 speed did not make a smooth "2 lane passing" sort of manuever when you got on it hard then left off suddenly. If you stay in it, it takes a bit to catch but then it's gone. I think it's more the 10 speed than the motor, but it's there. The PW is not as quick but is more predicatable and linear, if that makes sense. The big NA motor just does it's thing without drama and the 8 speed is dialed in. Tremor passes in less space, though, and feels sportier.
Interior (strong win PW). Honestly, no comparison. The Ram's interior is just nicer when comparing top trim to top trim. Both are comfortable, but the Ram is slightly more so. The leather and the plastics in the Tremor look cheaper when viewed side by side. Which is fair given that it is cheaper, which we'll touch on in a bit.
Exterior (mild win PW). This is really subjective, but I like the Ram more. Not enough that it's a big deal, but especially with Tracer graphics and the top trim with the vertical grill, I like it more than the Tremor. I really don't like the extreme rake of the Tremor, but a level will take care of that so it's a non-issue.
Price (strong win Tremor). Optioned the way I want them, roughly $8k difference in price (that's actual purchase price, not MSRP, both through Granger). This isn't entirely fair, as some features that would come with the Tremor will not be on the PW but come standard with the high package. A true apples to apples would be closer to $10k. I just don't care enough about lane assist, emergency braking, etc. to buy the safety package on the PW.
Technology (mild win Tremor). Tremor's tech package has more stuff like drive modes and comes with more driver assist stuff standard. The display is fully digital, although the rumor is the 2023 PW will be as well. I kind of like the mix of analog/digital the current one has, though.
Trucky-ness (mild win PW). Honestly not that much more capable in terms of payload due to the soft springs, it's a very light 3/4 ton or a heavy 1/2 ton as far as that goes. But, 6'4" bed. I have been hesitant to go to a 5.5" bed for a few reasons, not least of which is I can sleep in the 6'4" bed with an air mattress and mosquito net as well as more easily do the hardware store runs over a 5.5' bed. I don't plan to tow anything, and if I do it's unlikely it would stress a Rav-4 so the mild differences in towing capacity is a non-issue for me.
Urban use (very mild win Tremor). Tremor is 7" shorter (length) and 1" shorter (height). Width is fractions of an inch difference. Both have cameras, cross path detection for backing out of head-in curb spots, etc. The PW has ****ing fantastic visibility. Neither is going to be fun to find a parking structure for, but Tremor will be slightly easier to parallel park or head in park.
Highway use (very mild win PW). The ride quality of the PW surprised me. The F-150 unladen is more bouncy and floaty, especially in the rear, but it's only noticable on really bad sections of road, like hitting a big ass chuckhole on an on ramp. The PW feels planted regardless, and thanks to the soft springs and the fact it's coils it rides very nicely. Really surprising for a 3/4 ton. *BUT* range sucks. 16mpg is realistic from everything I've read, 31 gallon tank. So usuable range of around 400-ish miles. I'm used to 500-ish, and the Tremor is around 600-ish. I value both relatively equally, and a part of me says it's easy to swap shocks and it's easy to carry gas cans, so neither is likely insurmountable. The visibility from the PW is ****ing incredible, though. It still has the 4th gen cab dimensions so you sit up higher in the cab than the 5th gen Ram, add in the extra ride height, and it's like driving a brontosaurus.
Infotainment (draw). Ford has more intuitive physical buttons, Ram has some buttons but wants you to use the screen for more stuff. Both have nice screens. Factory sound system is better in the Ram, but not dramatically so. I find Uconnect understands my voice commands more reliably than Sync, but haven't gotten to play with the latest versions of either that's in these trucks much.
Desire to screw-with-it-ness (win PW). Bed cover and rock rails, eventually 35" tires when the OEMs are done and maybe upgrade the shocks when the OEMs are done. I don't see anything else I need or want. Tremor? I'm going to **** with it. I'll want the extra HP from a 93 only tune, it needs a level and tires out of the gate. I want a winch, since I'll be alone most of the time on trails, which will be a bother on the Tremor since you need to relocate the intercooler. Which, while you're in there you might as well get an aftermarket one for more cooling...
Longevity (no crystal ball, but guessing...PW?). I just can't imagine a twin turbo V6 is going to last as long as a NA V8, but maybe I'm wrong. Both transmissions are apparently well proven. The ball joints, etc. on the PW are the same as the other 2500s so made for the extra 600-ish lbs of a diesel motor. That's got to be good for longevity, right? I've not had rust issues with my 2012 Ram since I take care of it. I'll fluid film the PW and keep it nice as well, so corrosion shouldn't be a concern.
Misc: PW is going to take longer to be delivered, per guesstimates. I'm ordering from Granger in Iowa either way, Ford or Ram, and they think they'd get the Tremor quicker. I'm not super worried about it, but if I could get it today I could get 2.5% interest at my credit union. I don't *have* to finance, but I think I want to at 2.5%. I just doubt that rate is still there in 6-9 months. Fuel costs aren't a huge concern, but 16mpg highway vs 20mpg highway but 87 octane vs 93 octane for best performance (you *can* use 87 in the Ford, you just lose power). Given the spread in per gallon costs, probably not that big a deal. Especially no more than I drive. Plates and insurance costs are pretty samey-same.
So, what'd I miss? Any compelling reason, other than wallet cramps, to not go with the PW?
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