Ok Officers I need some advice....Well actually ALL INGO...

[edsinger]

First, what's up..

Today I get home and am told that the State Police went to the school today to talk with my son. The claim is that he passed a stopped school bus (handicapped at that) and was given a ticket.

So waiting for my son to come home, the wife and I were discussing this when the principal called and told us of the event with the state police. We told him that our son had called his mother and told her what had happened. (My wife waits until I get home to inform me, which I understand.)

So, my wife and I are discussing this and I think about where this could have happened at 7:50AM. I come to the conclusion that it has to be exactly one block from our house. There are some 'special' homes here that have special needs people. I have seen these buses. They are not like the regular yellow school buses. They are a rather large van that is rather wide. I personally have seen this bus many of times. There are no lights or stop signs that fold out.

Now, my son leaves for school about the same time I leave for work. 7:50 is about the right time for him to be going up that street as he does every morning. He also takes my daughter with him so there were two people in the car.

It is September 1st and the ticket says it occurred on August 22nd. This seems odd as if it had happened I as a parent would want to know as soon as possible that this occurred. It has been almost 2 weeks since the incident so I can not remember any details of that particular morning and neither can my son.

What the ticket says is :
9-21-12-1(A) - Illegal passing of School Bus/IFA


So you have the general idea. I know all parents think there kids are perfect, so I will not bore you with that. I will however tell you that I have NEVER caught him in a lie, I have only heard him cuss one time (Funny as he was 6 yrs old), he has made wise decisions to not be involved with things that friends have been in trouble with the law. He has never even been pulled over in 3 years of driving. He has never been in any trouble of that kind NEVER.

This has him shook up pretty bad. He would not knowingly do this. He told the officer that he doesn't remember this happening and the officer tells him that this is the scary part as he doesn't remember. This upset my son further. He would own up to it if he did it, but he can not remember doing it as it was DAYS ago and he travels that same route every school day. I know what he is thinking as I have seen that same bus. It does have that I can remember fold out a stop sign and has not flashing lights.

So here is my concern, here my son has a ticket that he adamantly says he will fight because he didn't do it and I do believe him. This is a serious ticket and his insurance will go up to were his McDonald's check will not pay for it.
I tend to believe him because he is 17 and had NEVER been in ANY trouble what so ever, especially of this magnitude.

I am thinking do I need to lawyer up? My gut tells me NO as I do not think a lawyer will do much except play the game and maybe get a lesser ticket etc. There are too many grey areas here.

Why wait almost 2 weeks before giving him the ticket?
Why drag him out of class at school and give it to him?
Why weren't the parents contacted first?
Why no details of the occurrence?


Look if he did it, I fully believe he would accept his responsibility but he is adamant about this NOT occurring.

Funny thing is, he was going to go to college to be an engineer of some sorts but lately he has been thinking law enforcement. This I believe has soured him on that because he thinks the system is broke.

I have told him you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. He does not feel that way as the State Police came to school today to give him that ticket, and quite frankly I agree with him. Something does not mesh here.

So for the state police on here is this standard policy? To go to the school and give the ticket to a minor? Or do you go through the parents first?


I want to do the right thing here and I want my son to see the system work no matter the outcome. I want to see it work, as I know it does the majority of the time.

Now, I have typed my piece, and I will have him follow up with his own version of events.

Please any advice you can offer, and it does not have to be an LEO, I would appreciate it.

Thank you.

 

[Brandon]

this whole story sounds messed up. the white van buses with no signs/flashing lights are allowed to function as school buses, but i am almost certain they have to pull into a driveway to pick up the passengers. no stopping in a busy street without the warning lights/signs. (I could very well be mistaken, but the idea does not pass the common sense test).

The rest of it I can not provide much useful information on.

I can tell you on a side note, you would be amazed at how many people pass my bus with all the lights flashing and sign out. Many cops have passed me as well.

I guess I would fight it, prob not with a lawyer though.

 

[Phil502]

I never knew of a van to have the stop sign on it, I might have passed it up too.
Why it takes 2 weeks to issue a ticket is very strange. Was there no cop there and the police take the word of the bus driver? That's suspect to me.
I don't have any advise except find out how this ticket is issued first.

 

[sgreen3]

Sounds like you have a good kid, sorry to here he has to go through something like this. Do you think you will let it go to court. Id have to say I would, if he is adimat about not doing it an you belive him. I agree, very strange on the two week delay on the ticket date.

 

[edsinger]

Oh I will let it go to court, the wife will set that up tommorrow as we only have 20 days to do so now......I want them to prove it. Something stinks here....

 

[1032JBT]

In order to issue a ticket for an Infraction I must observe the violation and the mere fact it took 2 weeks for him to get the ticket would tell me the Officer didn't witness said violation and there for can't testify to it in court.

If I don't witness the violation the MOST I will do is go talk to the "offender" and/or the parents of the "offender" and try and solve it that way. I will not however even think about writing the ticket.


Fight it in court.........and save the money and don't use a lawyer.

And tell your son not to let the actions of this State Trooper to diminish his desire to continue looking into becoming an LEO.

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

I guess I would fight it, prob not with a lawyer though.

^^^This^^^

How did they know it was your son? Even though he went by a stopped van, i can imagine it being incredibly difficult to get a plate number.

Like others have said, with no flashing lights or stop sign, i dont see how this could hold up in court. Does the

 

[ironjaw]

who's vehicle is the license plate registered to if you don't mind me asking?

 

[ironjaw]

if nonetheless, take it to court where you have the right to face the accuser.

 

[ironjaw]

it just sounds fishy to me, like someone has a grudge against your son, accusing him of doing this.

 

[GBuck]

There has to be a way that the trooper wrote the ticket. He isn't going to make himself look stupid for nothin. If he has a clean record he should be eligible for a deferral program. This allows you to pay a slightly higher fine and keep the ticket off of his record. No higher insurance and no points on his license.

Also, the deferral means he can't lose in court if the judge doesn't happen to see it your way, and then he is stuck with the ticket, points and higher insurance.

 

[emmitsmithxd9]

7:50 is the appropriate time for me to be driving by this house, and I do occasionally see these busses depending on which one it was. But for me to pass the Bus (white) would not be hard because it has no lights or flip out sign. Another detail that would make it hard for me to pass this bus is that, I have seen this bus pull into the drive way to pick up the kids, how could I pass a bus thats in a driveway? Well unless I drove through their yard. On the other hand if it is the yellow school bus, which does have lights and a fold out sign, I would notice the lights and the sign, but lets say I didn't. The only way I could pass this bus is if i drove right through the middle of the bus, as it caddy corners itself in the middle of the street making it impossible to pass, unless I had long night watching "Dukes of Hazard" re-runs and decided to take it through the front yard and possibly front room of their neighbors. Something I would never do, As I will not even drive down a dirt road in my car, as I am very protective of my first car.

This being said, I truly cannot remember this particular morning as it was on 8/22, 11 days ago. Not to mention I may take this road 4-6 times a day, two (there and back) for school and practice, two (there and back) for work, and two (there and back) for any friends houses or sporting events I may go to throughout the week. Yet I can say that I have NEVER knowingly committed this offense, as I do know about the special needs that this family has, I am very cautious as I drive by.

So this all said, I need your guys' help and opinions. One thing to keep in mind, I have NEVER been pulled over, NEVER been in trouble with the law, and NEVER been in any real trouble at school ( besides staying after class for not keeping my mouth shut, and some of my opinions to myself).

I would greatly appreciate some opinions to make this right as I cannot afford my insurance to go up to DUI prices, for something I have never done. I would reluctantly but still take responsibility HAD I committed this offense, but I did not. I hope I can see justice served.

 

[edsinger]

who's vehicle is the license plate registered to if you don't mind me asking?

That would be me.

However, they could have got the plate as they see him all the time. I even drive by it once in a while. Although I usually leave earlier than he most of the time.

 

[DaveL]

I will follow this thread as three somewhat similar cases have occurred in my immediate family. I have learned a TON about how things like this work ... and the main thing I have learned is that if you have three absolutely identical cases, the outcomes will be dramatically different depending upon many variables including who the prosecutor iss, what their emotions on the day are (were their kids good when they left for school that morning or not) and the judge and his emotions at that specific time.

I have a son who had something similar happen to him and it was a turning-point in his life. He feels strongly that he was set-up as an example and there are certainly many aspects of that case to indicate that. There seems to be a mentality in certain areas to make sure every effort is exerted to do things like use uniformed officers to pull him out of class, to give ridiculously heavy penalties, etc etc. so that as many kids as possible get the impact of doing something wrong.

Regarding the lawyer, I am torn ... we didn't get one and really wish we had. On another day with a different prosecutor and/or judge, it well could have turned out fine. You just never know.

I do know there is a "rule" (I don't know whether it is an actual law) that allows a school bus driver to report license numbers as offenders. I have no info on how that is handled in court if it is contested, but I know of several cases of this happening to people and they just pled guilty. And in that case, it does take many days before the ticket arrives.

If you can get the defferal, I would think serioulsy about getting it. I think in our county, if you are under a certain age, you can't get a deferral.

 

[UncleMike]

In order to issue a ticket for an Infraction I must observe the violation and the mere fact it took 2 weeks for him to get the ticket would tell me the Officer didn't witness said violation and there for can't testify to it in court.

If I don't witness the violation the MOST I will do is go talk to the "offender" and/or the parents of the "offender" and try and solve it that way. I will not however even think about writing the ticket.


Fight it in court.........and save the money and don't use a lawyer.

And tell your son not to let the actions of this State Trooper to diminish his desire to continue looking into becoming an LEO.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Unless the bus driver is also the Officer who signed the ticket, or the bus is equipped with a camera that takes pics of cars that fail to stop.
I believe that photos can still be used to establish an Infraction violation.

 

[emmitsmithxd9]

^^^This^^^

How did they know it was your son? Even though he went by a stopped van, i can imagine it being incredibly difficult to get a plate number.

Same thing I wondered, I asked how they knew it was me. And I was told they traced it to my car...
Nothing else, this seems sketchy to me.

 

[ironjaw]

That would be me.

However, they could have got the plate as they see him all the time. I even drive by it once in a while. Although I usually leave earlier than he most of the time.

then the state trooper would of given you the ticket......I think someone as previously said, has a grudge against your son. FIGHT THE TICKET.

 

[sbcman]

Won't hurt to go to court with it, maybe it will get some facts out. I'd prepare the kid to loose though. Any way it goes though he should be encouraged to follow out his LEO desires and use the event as an lesson to be a better cop.

"Never" caught in a lie- fantastic parenting.

A bit off topic- when can kids start driving in Indiana? He's 17 and been driving 3 years?

 

[edsinger]

it just sounds fishy to me, like someone has a grudge against your son, accusing him of doing this.

Well my wife and I considered this. Although we can not think of anyone that would be out for him, there is one small issue. It should not be one but it is. He has a 1997 BMW, a $4k one I might add. It was his money and it was the car he wanted. He has already seen on 2 occasions that people treat him as a spoiled brat because of the car. He actually wanted a Pontiac Gran Prix but he could NOT afford one. The BMW was in his price range and a decent car. I told him there would be issues but I am not sure if this situation could be for that reason.

Maybe LEO's can give input on this. Remember its a 97 BMW 5 series that was $4K...it has 100K miles on it. It is not a fancy car, but it is more fancy than mine but I am a cheapskate..

 

[emmitsmithxd9]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Unless the bus driver is also the Officer who signed the ticket,

I spoke to the State Trooper, I was pulled out of class to speak to him, and then said hold tight here for a few minutes, I am going to issue a citation. He left the principles office, went to his car, and about 5-10 minutes later came back in and handed to me.