NRA: On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama!

[Sphynx]

Sphinx:
You didn't answer my question:
How would more gun control solve this issue?

Get guns out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them.

Do you really think more laws would work to stop someone
with no respect for the law?

No, which is why laws are to prevent guns from getting into those hands in the first place, and for getting them out of those hands once they're there.

Do you know of any permit holders that have become vigilantes
or is that just a passionate emotional statement?

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...amendment/6799-2_20_yr_olds_vs_71_yr_old.html

 

[Justus]

Good luck with your debate Sphynx.
You're going in circles.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Get guns out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them.

No, which is why laws are to prevent guns from getting into those hands in the first place, and for getting them out of those hands once they're there.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...amendment/6799-2_20_yr_olds_vs_71_yr_old.html

Then explain why with Britain completely banning guns, that there is more gun crime now then before. On top of that those who don't have guns are killing people with knives and they are looking into banning knives. Outlawing and banning things does not prevent people from having them. people intent on doing harm will always find a way. Gun laws prevent responsible people from being able to defend themselves. That is plain and simple.

 

[Sphynx]

Then quit asking the same questions.

You may be right BloodEclipse, and it sucks that you may be right. But that's why proper laws won't prevent people from being able to defend themselves. I've never EVER objected to people carrying guns on them legally. I would LOVE for 100% of Americans to have a gun on them at all times. But that would also require 100% of them to be absolutely responsible for their actions with the Guns.

Gun Laws should be limited to stopping people who shouldn't have guns from having them, not like Britain where EVERYONE is prevented from having them.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Gun Laws should be limited to stopping people who shouldn't have guns from having them, not like Britain where EVERYONE is prevented from having them.

I can agree with this. But I have a feeling we might differ on who those people may be that shouldn't have them. Mental illness is a big area of dispute. Not everyone who has a mental illness is going to snap and start shooting people. Hell they have defined a person as being "SHY" as having a mental illness. thats a big stretch. The problem is if it is just mental illness as a definition then alot of people will be excluded from owning or carrying a gun for protection. That seems a bit discriminatory to me.

 

[Sphynx]

Can't argue with that.

 

[Justus]

Sphynx, there's a reason I'm asking the same question...
you're not answering it.

You state you are an advocate of more gun control...
I challenge that and your original interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

How could more gun control solve the problem of the wrong people
getting their hands on firearms?
What law could be passed that hasn't already been put on the books?

 

[Justus]

I have to say, I'm seeing an increase in posts on other
boards and blogs, from newbies taking the Obama stance:
"I support the 2nd amendment, we need more gun control"

Sphinx's first post was in response to an Obama thread.

I suspect there is an trolling element inside the Obama campaign hunting
these threads and planting responses.

 

[Sphynx]

Proper Gun Control does not take the guns out of -most- American hands. Only the wrong hands. I do NOT support bans on gun ownership, even in the wrong hands. I oppose the right for a person to have a gun in his possession in a public environment when he's someone that has a history of violent crime, has certain mental issues such as highly temperamental, or has abused his right to bear arms in public by using that right to threaten another human being.

 

[Justus]

Proper Gun Control does not take the guns out of -most- American hands. Only the wrong hands. I do NOT support bans on gun ownership, even in the wrong hands. I oppose the right for a person to have a gun in his possession in a public environment when he's someone that has a history of violent crime, has certain mental issues such as highly temperamental, or has abused his right to bear arms in public by using that right to threaten another human being.

By supporting Obama, you DO SUPPORT BANS on gun ownership
because he is in support of gun bans in urban areas(Chicago)

There are already laws on the books covering the bolded issues.
You advocate more?
NICS checks for this with every purchase.

Your wording of the last issue leaves a big gray area.

 

[Sphynx]

Actually, by supporting Obama, I support what I believe his current agendas are, not has past agendas. If I lived in Chicago or Gary, some of the most gun-ridden and dangerous cities to live in, I would support even stricter gun control. But Obama isn't a part of the Illinois legislation any more, and isn't interested in a national level restriction on guns.

Obama supports more gun control in Chicago, not over the entire Nation.

 

[4sarge]

I have to say, I'm seeing an increase in posts on other
boards and blogs, from newbies taking the Obama stance:
"I support the 2nd amendment, we need more gun control"

Sphinx's first post was in response to an Obama thread.

I suspect there is an trolling element inside the Obama campaign hunting
these threads and planting responses.

To date, almost every post is Obama related, how interesting :rolleyesedit:

 

[BloodEclipse]

Actually, by supporting Obama, I support what I believe his current agendas are, not has past agendas. If I lived in Chicago or Gary, some of the most gun-ridden and dangerous cities to live in, I would support even stricter gun control. But Obama isn't a part of the Illinois legislation any more, and isn't interested in a national level restriction on guns.

Obama supports more gun control in Chicago, not over the entire Nation.

Not true Obama supported DC's ban on handguns. Not just from bad people but from ALL people. His words are very slippery and if you think he doesn't want to ban all guns then that must be some strong kool-aid. He wants the AWB to be reinstated as well.

 

[Justus]

Sphynx, you stated in your intro that you own an M16A2

for someone that owns a full-auto weapon you seem to be a little
misinformed about current gun control measures.

 

[Sphynx]

This is very true. I've not found any other threads interesting enough to post to yet. I take my politics very seriously, but despite that, have avoided the more 'flaming' Obama threads I've read through despite obvious baiting. I'm not trying to start or flame a fight. But this thread -is- entitled about Obama, and I am staying on topic. I'm just not knuckling to the back-patting hoorah's of every Obama-Hater on the forum (which seems to be the 90% majority). Or maybe you prefer that everyone just all agree on a topic, and avoid any potential discussion.....

 

[Sphynx]

Sigh, you guys are posting too fast. That last reply was to 4Sarge.

BloodEclipse, show me where he desires a ban on all gun ownership across the nation.

Justus, tell me what you feel I'm mis-informed on.

 

[BloodEclipse]

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."

Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views." Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

 

[Justus]

Obama's stance on gun control can be found here:
Barack Obama on Gun Control

the fact that he supports local handgun bans tells me that he SUPPORTS BANS.

Be careful, your M16A2 will be next

 

[Sphynx]

He does and should support Bans. Getting illegal guns out of illegal hands should be a huge priority. He has never objected to legal ownership of guns. And if I ever point my gun at a person that didn't deserve to die (I'd never point my gun without firing), I hope someone does take it away from me. Guns should be banned from people who can't be held responsible for their use.

 

[BloodEclipse]

He does and should support Bans. Getting illegal guns out of illegal hands should be a huge priority. He has never objected to legal ownership of guns. And if I ever point my gun at a person that didn't deserve to die (I'd never point my gun without firing), I hope someone does take it away from me. Guns should be banned from people who can't be held responsible for their use.

Ok now you have cracked me up. It is ALREADY ILLEGAL for ILLEGAL GUNS to be in ILLEGAL HANDS. We don't need more laws. But you see when Clinton was in office Gun crimes were not prosecuted... they don't want to get rid of the Gun Crime.. they invite more of it so they can take away law abiding citizens rights by scaring the hell out of everyone. I have always said"Enforce the laws we have now".