NRA Discourages Board Members From Testifying Against Kagan

[Prometheus]

You're angry at the NRA because they allegedly joined a pending injunction 2 weeks after it was filed?

No I'm not mad because it took them 3 weeks to do something. I'm not mad because they only attached their name and nothing more. I AM MAD because they went on to produce a movie and mass mail it claiming they were the sole reason Katrina victims got there guns back. It was a huge lie and they did it for ONE REASON: MONEY.

How is the NRA "screwing" gun owners?

The Kagan nonsense is exactly that, nonsense. Fiction that many here are repeating as fact and get caught up in some self-reinforcing delusional anger.

O.K., Prom, give us your bill of particulars. What and when?

Here is small snippet. I'm tired of typing it out over and over again for you people to ignore.

This is the tip of the iceberg:

The REAL NRA​

I can think of a multitude of reasons not to join the NRA. One among the top reasons, is that they are not a '2nd Amendment Rights' organization. The NRA has been behind most of the gun control legislation.

Wow, that's incredible and hard to believe you say. Surely that man must be nuts. Well, if you enjoy firearms history like I do, please do some reading.

The NRA has 'covertly' worked in the past to take away 2nd Amendment Rights. That's a cold hard fact.

The NRA helped craft the 1934 NFA act, the 1968 Gun Control Act just to name a few. These laws help restrict the 2nd Amendment.

The NRA tried unsuccessfully to scuttle a rare 2nd Amendment victory -- U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled that D.C.’s gun ban violates the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Quote:
The attorneys involved in litigating the case have stated that the NRA acted as an obstruction. Attorney Alan Gura has commented on the NRA's "sham litigation" to have Parker consolidated with NRA controlled litigation, and stated that "the NRA was adamant about not wanting the Supreme Court to hear the case".[6] Cato Institute senior fellow Robert Levy, co-counsel to the Parker plaintiffs, has stated that the Parker plaintiffs "faced repeated attempts by the NRA to derail the litigation."[7]

What kind of gun right organization actively undermines a case so important to gun ownership nationwide?

Quote:
"The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871."

—NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth
NRA's American Rifleman Magazine, March 1968, P. 22
Quote:
"The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934 which taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. ... NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts." —American Rifleman, March 1968, P. 22
Now in 2007, the NRA has joined forces with the very people who would love to disarm American's -- the Brady Campaign. Who helped craft H.R. 2640? Why Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) and FORMER NRA BOARD MEMBER Rep. John Dingell (D-MI).

The NRA currently has on its board of directors, Joaquin Jackson, who was caught on video stating the mere civilians shouldn't be able to own magazines that hold more than 5 rounds.

And just this past weekend on CNN Glen Beck show, the chief lobbyist for the NRA Chris Cox publicly stated that the NRA has never supported fully automatic firearms. <see below>

Why would the NRA keep surrendering on every piece of legislation that comes down the pike? Perhaps they forgot about the “shall not be abridged" part of the Amendment and think it says 'compromised away'.

-------------
The NRA's Role In Creation of the 1934 National Firearms Act

Congressional hearings over the National Firearms Act of 1934 (H.R.9066) took place April 16 & 18 and May 14, 15, & 16 of 1934. Then-NRA President Karl T. Frederick testified on behalf of the National Rifle Association (NRA).

NFA'34 is the foundation for all federal gun control and has been used in courts to justify many state gun controls -- and gun control is clearly about disarmament.

Example of NRA President's Testimony:

Quote:
MR. FREDERICK: ... "I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I seldom carry one. ... I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses"

This should be required reading by all gun owners. It will help you understand the genesis of all the nations restrictions on firearms occurred -- the NRA.


Keep and Bear Arms - Gun Owners Home Page - 2nd Amendment Supporters

----------

1968 Gun Control Act and the NRA

Plus to be honest, the only reason there was the a 1968 Gun Control Act is because the NRA supported its creation. Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI) actually drafted the 1968 bill and the NRA endorsed it.

Quote:
1968 General Franklin Orth, Executive Vice President of NRA, testifies before Congress in favor of the Gun Control Act (GCA'68) that "[NRA does] not think that any sane American, who calls himself an American, can object to placing into this bill the instrument which killed the president of the United States," /2/ (a ban on the mail-order sale of firearms). His statement of NRA support generates heated opposition from the (presumably insane) portion of the NRA membership, creating split between "sportsmen" and "hardliners."
2007: NRA's current position on machine gun ownership - your screwed.

Here is the transcript of NRA's spokesman Chris Cox on the CNN Glen Beck Show (October 5, 2007) showing stating:


Quote:
BECK: Chris, are you for fully automatic machine guns?

COX: We`ve never advocated fully automatic machine guns and Paul knows it. But, again, Glenn, this is very basic. It`s --
Who is Chris Cox?

Chris Cox is the 'Executive Director', the NRA Institute for Legislative Action , the political and lobbying arm of the National Rifle Association

What is interesting is that federal law allows for private ownership of machine guns for a qualified individual. However in 2007, the NRA (a supposed 2nd Amendment Rights organization) feels that you should not have that right. The NRA supported the creation of the 1934 NFA Act which put the restrictions on machine guns, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns in the first place.

Sources:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../05/gb.01.html
NRA-ILA :: Chris Cox's Political Report -- John Kerry and the Second Amendment

So why on God's green earth would firearm collectors want to support an organization that seems dedicated to removing an inalienable Right to own firearms?

 

[TiminMishawaka]

The NRA announced their opposition to Kagan today.

NRA Opposes Kagan, Will Score Senators on Confirmation Vote - Yahoo! News

The only thing I can think of for the tactic on the timing of this press release is they want it fresh in Senators' minds when they go in to cast their vote.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Strategically, it's a bad idea to oppose something that is likely to pass. It's better to focus on fights that can be won. Kagan is going to sail through, as she's been hidden in the news by the BP oil disaster.

I agree... and who is in line next could be worse than Kagan.

 

[Sgt Rock]

as said by mrjerrell, this is false. Click on the NRA homepage and you can click on NRA news, then Chris Cox's statement about what he said. It all makes sense when you know the facts. Don't jump to conclusions.

 

[Vasili]

The NRA doesn't want to spend their "political capital", as we are so often reminded. They wish to use all of the "good will" they have on the Hill for meaningful things.

I'm hard pressed to think of a single thing more important than the ascension of this filth to the highest court in our land.

Maybe there's something I'm not thinking of.

 

[kingnereli]

Kirk, you and King's articles both came out after the Board Member spoke out. It's called damage control. What these guys said in private emails wasn't to be made public, but it was. It's just like any other political body that gets exposed to their true side.

You guys can defend the NRA all you want. Katrina was the knife to the heart in my eyes and the recent events were just the final nail in the coffin for me.

We're all just going to have to agree to disagree here. It's just that simple.

I've talked with a couple former NRA Board members and they will tell you that the NRA is ball-less. When the NRA gets another set and actually does what they say they'll do, I'll give them another look.

CONVINCE me the NRA is willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES and I will coming running back. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen until they get a change in the upper echelon.

Your opinion amounts to a conspiracy theory then. Someone starts a rumoer, the NRA goes public to clarify and you choose to stick with the rumor. You don't like the NRA because you simply don't want to not because there is any valid reason.

The NRA isn't perfect but they do a whole lot of good. The 2A would be long gone without them. Like it or not, we need them.

Here is small snippet. I'm tired of typing it out over and over again for you people to ignore.

This is the tip of the iceberg:

I personally ignore it because most of it is spun, fabricated or out of context. Plus, the parts that are true can't be held against the current NRA leadership.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I personally ignore it because most of it is spun, fabricated or out of context. Plus, the parts that are true can't be held against the current NRA leadership.

What he said.

Pro, you're really worried about things an old man said back in the '30's?! Really?

While you stand around on the sidelines with your head up and locked, (waiting for the NRA to get it together) searching for a vast NRA conspiracy, the rest of us are out teaching NRA safety programs to anyone who will listen, volunteering at 2A events, working with ILA to get out the vote, etc. Don't worry... when you fall off your high horse doing nothing (And without numbers YOU ARE DOING NOTHING) we will be here for you. Just like we have always been.

For every person you divert from the NRA with your 80 year old conspiracy theory I'll sign up 10 more. I've signed up over 700 so far this year. At least SOME of us are doing SOMETHING... and it seems to be working.

The NRA is not a perfect organization. Perhaps you can build the perfect organization and bring in enough people (say, 4,000,000?) to give your organization some teeth.

Gun control is often viewed as a poison pill and has been dropped by many an agenda because of the clout of the NRA.

If you were a voting member of the NRA you would have a voice just like you do with your state, local, and federal government. Instead, you sit on the sidelines and complain, diminishing the hard work that many of us here do so that we, AND YOU, can still today exercise a God given right.

While I respect your passion on the issue you may consider reevaluating where all that energy goes. It could be put to good use. The NRA may not be the PUREST 2A organization, but it's what we have. Want to change it? Join and vote! But please do so quickly because spilling the irrelevant-libelous-out-of-context-and-date blather you posted above does more harm than you could EVER make up for.

 

[kingnereli]

What he said.

Pro, you're really worried about things an old man said back in the '30's?! Really?

While you stand around on the sidelines with your head up and locked, (waiting for the NRA to get it together) searching for a vast NRA conspiracy, the rest of us are out teaching NRA safety programs to anyone who will listen, volunteering at 2A events, working with ILA to get out the vote, etc. Don't worry... when you fall off your high horse doing nothing (And without numbers YOU ARE DOING NOTHING) we will be here for you. Just like we have always been.

For every person you divert from the NRA with your 80 year old conspiracy theory I'll sign up 10 more. I've signed up over 700 so far this year. At least SOME of us are doing SOMETHING... and it seems to be working.

The NRA is not a perfect organization. Perhaps you can build the perfect organization and bring in enough people (say, 4,000,000?) to give your organization some teeth.

Gun control is often viewed as a poison pill and has been dropped by many an agenda because of the clout of the NRA.

If you were a voting member of the NRA you would have a voice just like you do with your state, local, and federal government. Instead, you sit on the sidelines and complain, diminishing the hard work that many of us here do so that we, AND YOU, can still today exercise a God given right.

While I respect your passion on the issue you may consider reevaluating where all that energy goes. It could be put to good use. The NRA may not be the PUREST 2A organization, but it's what we have. Want to change it? Join and vote! But please do so quickly because spilling the irrelevant-libelous-out-of-context-and-date blather you posted above does more harm than you could EVER make up for.

+1 Well said.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I AM MAD because they went on to produce a movie and mass mail it claiming they were the sole reason Katrina victims got there guns back. It was a huge lie and they did it for ONE REASON: MONEY

You are mad because they made a movie exposing what happened in New Orleans? And distributed this movie to millions of gun owners? Was this not great agitprop?

NRA attorneys did the lion's share of the work but they were not the only ones involved. However, we have already gone over the propensity of the NRA giving itself credit for things others did (including the IN-TX carry agreement).

Here is small snippet. I'm tired of typing it out over and over again for you people to ignore

Angel Shamaya!!! Seriously? Holy cow!

I thought he was done after his guilty plea and turning his guns in?

1. The NRA did not become a "gun lobby" until the Cincy reforms of 1977.

2. In 1934 the NRA, a target shooting organization, did leave it up to each individual member as to the NFA.

3. In 1967-68 the NRA did submit alternatives to Johnson's GCA and SSA, especially to the study commission, including an affidavit for buying guns over state lines. The NRA's suggestions were ignored.

4. The ILA was then formed after the brutal wake up call of the GCA and SSA.

5. You cite Joaquin Jackson? What happened to him? Was there not an uproar? How about the uproar over NRA contributor Bill Ruger? The NRA, despite the nonsense over Kagan, does not control its BoD with torture or mind control implants.

6. Out of context statements, especially without the sense of history, can lead to overbroad conspiracy theories.

However, I do support the "radicals" such as GOA and I am a plank holder of JPSA (now JPFO). There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism, especially of something that we all want to succeed, but this spreading of nonsense like the Kagan matter is unhelpful and needs to stop.

 

[SirRealism]

The tea parties are sellouts. They've been taken over by the Republicans!! The sky is falling, the sky is falling.


oh, sorry, wrong thread.

There isn't a single political organization who doesn't get slammed for something... especially when they get big enough to make a difference. I feel comfortable in saying that, without the NRA, I wouldn't be able to exercise the rights I currently do. And I think I'm going to try and get more involved in order to help change the things I think they do wrong.

 

[kingnereli]

NRA-ILA :: NRA Opposed To Kagan Nomination To U.S. Supreme Court

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, the NRA opposes Kagan?

How can it tell its board members not to testify if it is officially anti-Kagain?

I can hardly wait to hear this explained.

Maybe they can tell us about Angel giving up his guns, but not his NRA hate?

 

[IndyGunSafety]

So, the NRA opposes Kagan?

How can it tell its board members not to testify if it is officially anti-Kagain?

I can hardly wait to hear this explained.

Maybe they can tell us about Angel giving up his guns, but not his NRA hate?

It's easy. Some battles are not worth fighting. She is going to get confirmed either way. The NRA is against ANYONE who attacks the 2A and all the politicians know it. But they (NRA) don't fight every single battle that comes along. MAYBE WHOEVER IS NEXT IN LINE WOULD BE WORSE! You have to be careful what you wish for. (Example: Wishing Obama would have an unfortunate accident leaves JOE BIDEN as president, and Nancy Pelosi a heartbeat away from the presidency!)

 

[Bigum1969]

What he said.

Pro, you're really worried about things an old man said back in the '30's?! Really?

While you stand around on the sidelines with your head up and locked, (waiting for the NRA to get it together) searching for a vast NRA conspiracy, the rest of us are out teaching NRA safety programs to anyone who will listen, volunteering at 2A events, working with ILA to get out the vote, etc. Don't worry... when you fall off your high horse doing nothing (And without numbers YOU ARE DOING NOTHING) we will be here for you. Just like we have always been.

For every person you divert from the NRA with your 80 year old conspiracy theory I'll sign up 10 more. I've signed up over 700 so far this year. At least SOME of us are doing SOMETHING... and it seems to be working.

The NRA is not a perfect organization. Perhaps you can build the perfect organization and bring in enough people (say, 4,000,000?) to give your organization some teeth.

Gun control is often viewed as a poison pill and has been dropped by many an agenda because of the clout of the NRA.

If you were a voting member of the NRA you would have a voice just like you do with your state, local, and federal government. Instead, you sit on the sidelines and complain, diminishing the hard work that many of us here do so that we, AND YOU, can still today exercise a God given right.

While I respect your passion on the issue you may consider reevaluating where all that energy goes. It could be put to good use. The NRA may not be the PUREST 2A organization, but it's what we have. Want to change it? Join and vote! But please do so quickly because spilling the irrelevant-libelous-out-of-context-and-date blather you posted above does more harm than you could EVER make up for.

Best post I've seen in a long, long time.

Reps inbound. I'd give you 4,000 reps if I could.

 

[JBusch8899]

.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

But she is not getting a free pass.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Best post I've seen in a long, long time.

Reps inbound. I'd give you 4,000 reps if I could.

Well thank you!

There are things about the NRA I don't like, and some just *iss me off! But it's what we've got and they have done way more good over the years than harm. Join & vote!

 

[downzero]

There are two methods to fixing the NRA:

1. Join and try to vote the half ass gun rights people out
or
2. Keep your money and stay away, working with others like Cato, JPFO, GOA, etc., who have actually done something besides stand in the way. What the NRA did in the Heller case is inexcusable, and what they did in the McDonald case is almost as bad.

When gun owners start telling the NRA to go back to teaching people to shoot, in big numbers, then maybe I'll join.

The NRA is quickly becoming the trade union for gun rights, concerned more about its own self-preservation than that of our gun rights.

 

[kingnereli]

There are two methods to fixing the NRA:

1. Join and try to vote the half ass gun rights people out
or
2. Keep your money and stay away, working with others like Cato, JPFO, GOA, etc., who have actually done something besides stand in the way. What the NRA did in the Heller case is inexcusable, and what they did in the McDonald case is almost as bad.

When gun owners start telling the NRA to go back to teaching people to shoot, in big numbers, then maybe I'll join.

The NRA is quickly becoming the trade union for gun rights, concerned more about its own self-preservation than that of our gun rights.

What, precisely, have the organizations you mention done on a national level?

 

[Jack Ryan]

Where's the love?