Note about AOW shotguns.

[bigcraig]

They can NOT be built using any shotgun receiver that has EVER had a buttstock installed on it, REGARDLESS of who builds it, SOT or individual.

The end result of such a build is a SBS, period. (SBS are a no-go in IN.)

Every SOT that builds AOW shottys, Serbu, Harbour and KEG, use models that have never had a buttstock on them. If you choose not to believe me, feel free to call Mark Serbu, or if you feel that you need the advice of some one with "credentials" feel free to shoot off a letter the the BATFE Tech branch. (But before you do, lets make a wager on wether or not I am right.)


That is all, bigcraig OUT!

 

[Slow Hand]

No dog in this fight, but if you had a buddy who is an SOT, can you buy a factory new, pistol gripped gun and have the SOT convert it and still only cost you a $5 transfer? Just asking.....

Doug K

 

[techres]

No dog in this fight, but if you had a buddy who is an SOT, can you buy a factory new, pistol gripped gun and have the SOT convert it and still only cost you a $5 transfer? Just asking.....

Doug K

To my knowledge no, and no.

First, no because the $5 only works if the shotty is unsold and owned by the SOT. If something you already own is being converted for you the $200 stamp applies.

Second, no because a shotgun cannot be made into a pistol and by Indiana law (not federal law) it would become a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS) which is specifically banned under Indiana law (but would be legal in other states).

So, IIRC, no and no.

You have to buy one already built so that it was never a shotgun legally but always has been an AOW. Also so that you only pay the $5 stamp.

 

[bigcraig]

To my knowledge no, and no.

First, no because the $5 only works if the shotty is unsold and owned by the SOT. If something you already own is being converted for you the $200 stamp applies.

Second, no because a shotgun cannot be made into a pistol and by Indiana law (not federal law) it would become a Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS) which is specifically banned under Indiana law (but would be legal in other states).

So, IIRC, no and no.

You have to buy one already built so that it was never a shotgun legally but always has been an AOW. Also so that you only pay the $5 stamp.

techres, what Doug is proposing is perfectly legal.

If the shotgun came from the factory without a buttstock, it can be built into a AOW. For example, a pistol grip shotgun is marked as a pistol on the 4473, not as a longarm.

Now, as far as having your friendly SOT "building" your AOW from an existing pistol grip shotgun that you currently own, this is also perfectly legal and is also the path to save $195. You see, if an individual chose to convert his own pistol gripped shotgun into a AOW, he/she would be required to register such build on a form 1 with a $200 making tax. However, your friendly SOT can make the item tax free, and since AOWs only transfer on a $5 tax stamp you save $195. Now you will more than likely still have to pay the SOT for the labor to chop the barrel and mag tube, but you would have to pay for that process any way, well, unless you did your own machine work. Then the SOT might require a fee just to do the papwork.

The process might go like this.

1) You give your SOT you pistol gripped shotty and tell him you want it made into a AOW.

2) SOT enters the shotty into his bound book and fills out the forms to make it into an AOW. (SOTs don't have to wait for approval for these builds, the forms just inform the ATF to pt a new item in the registry.)

3) SOT fills out form 4 for the transfer to you, then you do your part of the paperwork, print cards and what not, then mail it all to the ATF with a check for a 5 spot.

4) Form 4 approved, pick up your AOW.

Note, if your doing the machine work yourself and just having the SOT do the paperwork, the SOT will need to hold the shotty reciever, or entire gun, until the form 4 is apporved. Then when it is approved, pick up the gun and start the machine work.

Hope that helps.

 

[VUPDblue]

I'm honestly not sure about the details involved in handing a receiver over to the SOT and then transfering it. My gut tells me that it would be a simple $5 transfer because the only thing the SOT did was "manufacture" the NFA item. Ownership of the donor gun is irrelevant. Also, using a factory pistol-gripped shotgun to make an AOW is legal. The important thing is that it NEVER had a buttstock attached. By definition a shotgun is a shoulder fired weapon. Those pistol gripped shotguns are not shoulder fired and thus they were never shotguns by definition. They actually log on a 4473 as a handgun, this is why they can become an AOW. If it ever had a stock, it can only ever become a SBS.

 

[Zoub]

What a coinicidence, my friendly SOT in LA is looking into this as well but frankly the expected outcome is inline with what Craig has posted here.

A month ago or so we were discussing IF there were any work arounds and I think that took all of 5 minutes to kill.

I just plan to get a virigin 870 receiver or factory PG only then it wil be sent to him, sent back to me and then the fun will begin.

 

[techres]

I'm honestly not sure about the details involved in handing a receiver over to the SOT and then transfering it. My gut tells me that it would be a simple $5 transfer because the only thing the SOT did was "manufacture" the NFA item. Ownership of the donor gun is irrelevant. Also, using a factory pistol-gripped shotgun to make an AOW is legal. The important thing is that it NEVER had a buttstock attached. By definition a shotgun is a shoulder fired weapon. Those pistol gripped shotguns are not shoulder fired and thus they were never shotguns by definition. They actually log on a 4473 as a handgun, this is why they can become an AOW. If it ever had a stock, it can only ever become a SBS.

So you would need to be absolutely sure that the shotty had never had a stock, ever. Kinda makes you want to be sure to buy it new.

As for the transfer, I though I read something about the ATF taking a dim view of the $5 game and wanting their $195, but until I can find evidence of that memory, I bow out. I will return with something as soon as I find it.

 

[bigcraig]

As for the transfer, I though I read something about the ATF taking a dim view of the $5 game and wanting their $195, but until I can find evidence of that memory, I bow out. I will return with something as soon as I find it.

Josh, there is nothing illegal nor misleading about having a SOT take possession of a gun, register it as a AOW, and then do the transfer back to the original owner. In fact, depending on the gunsmith/FFL/SOT clientel and the type of firearms they specialize in, that may well be the primary reason that obtained an SOT.

 

[techres]

Josh, there is nothing illegal nor misleading about having a SOT take possession of a gun, register it as a AOW, and then do the transfer back to the original owner. In fact, depending on the gunsmith/FFL/SOT clientel and the type of firearms they specialize in, that may well be the primary reason that obtained an SOT.

I am glad to hear that. If that's the case, then who would ever pay the full $200? Some one who just wanted to do the work themselves?

 

[bigcraig]

I am glad to hear that. If that's the case, then who would ever pay the full $200? Some one who just wanted to do the work themselves?

Yep.

 

[alfahornet]

Sorry to ask this question again but I am slighlty confused on the whole SBS/AOW issue.

Once the firearm has been registered as an AOW (and had up to that point never a stock installed) can you after registration install a stock?

My opinion is no but I had an SOT tell me recently you could because it already is an AOW. Any opinions? Thanks.

 

[shooter521]

Once the firearm has been registered as an AOW (and had up to that point never a stock installed) can you after registration install a stock?

No. An AOW, by definition, cannot have a stock. The instant you attach one, it becomes an unregistered short-barreled rifle (SBR) or shotgun (SBS).

 

[VUPDblue]

Sorry to ask this question again but I am slighlty confused on the whole SBS/AOW issue.

Once the firearm has been registered as an AOW (and had up to that point never a stock installed) can you after registration install a stock?

My opinion is no but I had an SOT tell me recently you could because it already is an AOW. Any opinions? Thanks.

It's amazing to me how many of these SOT Bozos spew false information. You'd think that they would be learned on the rules that could destroy their business if violated...

 

[CountryBoy19]

It's amazing to me how many of these SOT Bozos spew false information. You'd think that they would be learned on the rules that could destroy their business if violated...

To be honest, I can see where this comes from, but I don't think it applies to the NFA world. I think this misconception probably comes from taking pistol and turning it into a rifle, then back into a pistol again. As long as it was originally a pistol, it can be made into a rifle, and then reverted back into a pistol (but can't go the other way). As a title I firearm, a pistol and rifle are very similar, they're only different configurations. So I can see where some would think that you can take an AOW and add a stock to it to make an SBS, then back to an AOW. But the problem comes in that it is on the registry as an AOW, so to change the configuration, it must be noted in the registry and the proper channels gone through to make an AOW into and SBS. Then, it cannot be changed back. They are considered completely different firearms, just not different configurations of a firearm.

I believe that is why they're different.