New electric smart meters

[manifest destiny]

My intent was to not single out any one specific individual. The folks I was referring to were the ones who didn’t cite any specific issues that had caused problems. Rather, their comments, for the most part, was by gosh and by God I know the electric utility is nothing but a big business rip off scam and the primary goal is to keep the little guy down.

It‘s not hard to do some research about smart metering. One comment, I think, in a post was that the electric utility had raised their rates exponentially and could do so because of the smart meter. Or. . . . . . .the utility needed to raise rates to pay for the newly installed smart meter. Both theories are pure BS.

The purpose of smart meters are :

Enable remote meter reading which is more accurate than a personal on site reading by an individual.

The cost to the utility is lower. No personnel cost - wages, benefits, vacation, sick time, pension, 401k, etc. Before you say the meter reader is now out of a job - so is the guy who made buggy whips. Life goes on. Industries change. Technological advances impact us all.

A smart meter can identify electric usage anomalies which, in turn, can be used to assist home owners in learning how to conserve energy.

Smart meters represent a technological advance. No more. No less. No government intrusion, no big brother control. So, if you’re worried - you can take off your tin foil hat. Life is gonna be okay.

I can’t speak first hand for investor owned utilities (IOU) like Duke. I represent a Rural Electric Member Cooperative (REMC) in one of the donut counties surrounding Indy. The utility is member owned. There are no investors and no dividends are paid. Any “profit” ( margin over expenses ) is returned to members in the form of patronage on a periodic basis. The members are represented by directors whom the members vote for in an open election. Anyone who is a member (buys electricity) can run for the director position in the district where they receive service.

Members can attend board meetings and annual meetings and openly discuss concerns and issues with Co Op management or the directors, and may remove a director by voting them out on a three year rotational basis. It is the purest form of democracy. ( It is not a democratic republic )

For those living on a Duke, AEP, or other IOU line, complain to the Indiana regulatory commission if you have a complaint. Don’t, however, expect the IOU management to curtail any program, service, or benefit if it will mean the shareholders stock price or dividend will suffer.

Electricity is a unique commodity. Realistically speaking, it is an on demand commodity. It can‘t be stored for later use like fossil fuels or other products. (Not even if you believe Elon Musk is about to solve the cost and production of battery storage. Hint - it ain’t gonna happen in our lifetime.)

For those who want to escape the dependence on a utility - then convert to solar or wind. But, please be honest and include the cost of the equipment, the useful life, the time for cost recovery, and what to do when the sun doesn’t shine and the wind doesn’t blow. Then factor in the cost of the batteries you’ll need to purchase. Thereafter, also calculate maintenance costs and additional insurance premiums. If you think you can generate enough electricity on your own and sell the excess back to the grid - then please explain who is going to pay for the transmission lines, meters, etc. to enable you to do so. I suspect you’ll want the utility to cover that expense.

This country is heading for a huge surprise in short order re: energy costs. Political administrations are convincing planet earth needs to be saved and fossil fuel generation is evil. According the Green Party we all need to buy electric cars, install our own generation equipment, and demand utilities only generate electric from renewables ( wind, solar, and hydro ). Don’t count on nuclear cause that ain’t in vogue now either. Don’t worry that the US is compromising the safety and efficiency of fossil fuel generation while China is building 50 new coal fired plants a year and Russia is selling oil and natural gas to European countries for ransom prices. (See news reports about Germany). I could go on and on. This is a complex problem. But the utilities aren‘t a huge conspiracy to stick it to the little guy. If you want buy a gasoline powered generator and make your own knock yourself out. (Pssst - how much is gasoline right now ? )

I’ll wait for replies.

Wow, you've made very salient points. Some I hadn't considered or hadn't considered from the utility co.'s POV. I also appreciate you pointing out the less discussed nuances with solar. However, it's an uphill battle to convince me that any utility provider has my best interests as their priority. Try getting a permit to build a house without utilities. Good luck. The requirement to connect to an electric company is compulsory. Even when I use no electricity I'm stuck paying the "meter fee". Which is kinda ironic in itself since I had to buy the meter.

 

[Ingomike]

Electricity is a unique commodity. Realistically speaking, it is an on demand commodity.

While true the way you present it, the truth is we used to keep a 90 day supply of coal in reserve at the generation plant, no stinking batteries needed. So while the power itself is a use it or lose it proposition the energy can easily be stored as coal on the ground…

 

[Ingomike]

This country is heading for a huge surprise in short order re: energy costs. Political administrations are convincing planet earth needs to be saved and fossil fuel generation is evil. According the Green Party we all need to buy electric cars, install our own generation equipment, and demand utilities only generate electric from renewables ( wind, solar, and hydro ). Don’t count on nuclear cause that ain’t in vogue now either. Don’t worry that the US is compromising the safety and efficiency of fossil fuel generation while China is building 50 new coal fired plants a year and Russia is selling oil and natural gas to European countries for ransom prices. (See news reports about Germany). I could go on and on. This is a complex problem. But the utilities aren‘t a huge conspiracy to stick it to the little guy. If you want buy a gasoline powered generator and make your own knock yourself out. (Pssst - how much is gasoline right now ? )

The shock is not here yet but it is coming. We have the smartest idiots ever in the sheeple today. We have geniuses that can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year but think EV’s are pollution free and have no concept of the electric grid and how it works.

 

[Jaybird1980]

While true the way you present it, the truth is we used to keep a 90 day supply of coal in reserve at the generation plant, no stinking batteries needed. So while the power itself is a use it or lose it proposition the energy can easily be stored as coal on the ground…

That is energy on the ground, that isn't electricity. Without the rest of the powerplant needed to convert it into megawatts, all you have is btu's stored in solid form.

 

[Ingomike]

The purpose of smart meters are :

Enable remote meter reading which is more accurate than a personal on site reading by an individual.

The cost to the utility is lower. No personnel cost - wages, benefits, vacation, sick time, pension, 401k, etc. Before you say the meter reader is now out of a job - so is the guy who made buggy whips. Life goes on. Industries change. Technological advances impact us all.

A smart meter can identify electric usage anomalies which, in turn, can be used to assist home owners in learning how to conserve energy.

Smart meters represent a technological advance. No more. No less. No government intrusion, no big brother control. So, if you’re worried - you can take off your tin foil hat. Life is gonna be okay.

No tin foil hat needed. I do not want, for security and privacy reasons, anyone having access to my minute by minute electric usage. I still employ a meter reader…

 

[Ingomike]

That is energy on the ground, that isn't electricity. Without the rest of the powerplant needed to convert it into megawatts, all you have is btu's stored in solid form.

True, but no other form of electric production allows this. I read a well written article that the Texas debacle was made significantly worse by the lack of coal plants to pick up the slack when the wind and gas went down...

 

[Lpherr]

My intent was to not single out any one specific individual. The folks I was referring to were the ones who didn’t cite any specific issues that had caused problems. Rather, their comments, for the most part, was by gosh and by God I know the electric utility is nothing but a big business rip off scam and the primary goal is to keep the little guy down.

It‘s not hard to do some research about smart metering. One comment, I think, in a post was that the electric utility had raised their rates exponentially and could do so because of the smart meter. Or. . . . . . .the utility needed to raise rates to pay for the newly installed smart meter. Both theories are pure BS.

I didn't bother wasting my time reading your entire post. Especially after the highlighted sentence.
Research is inconclusive anymore, with all the BS. Honesty was flung out the window, the business (any) can't be trusted, a lot of people can't be trusted because there are the one's that are "sponsored" for their review.
But I can damn sure trust a large group of random people, giving the exact same experiences all across the country.
Am I going to trust someone that is pushing their opinions, being derogatory to others opinions, and blatantly advocating (with conviction) for something that keeps them employed? Probably going to be very skeptical, especially when it goes against any of the research you claim isn't hard to do.

If research gave any definitive answers, you wouldn't come to a gun forum and ask questions.
There isn't any one resource for any question or answer. Most people would prefer to gather information from others, that have first hand experience with any given subject. When a pattern develops, it's probably true.

If you honestly believe there aren't ulterior motives to anything in the modern world, and the populace shouldn't be suspect, I feel sorry for you.

 

[Jaybird1980]

True, but no other form of electric production allows this. I read a well written article that the Texas debacle was made significantly worse by the lack of coal plants to pick up the slack when the wind and gas went down...

What? Nuclear, Natural Gas, and Hydro all have the ability to store the "fuel"

Now if you want to say wind and solar don't have the ability to store the fuel I will agree with that.

 

[Ingomike]

If you honestly believe there aren't ulterior motives to anything in the modern world, and the populace shouldn't be suspect, I feel sorry for you

Truth here…

 

[rooster]

Ok I also work in the industry. Long story short is smart meters allow for grid operators to be able to determine the cause of outages faster and more accurately.

many components of the grid are now “smart” this allows the utility to save money because lineman know where the problem is quicker and operators can potentially restore your power even before the lineman makes it out to the cause of the fault( downed line, broken pole ect).

 

[BugI02]

I am a director of a local member owned REMC utility. Without picking on anyone individually who has commented in thread I can state 90% of what has derogatorily written is pure horsesh*t.

A response to contradict all the misstatements to outright lies would take several paragraphs and not worth the effort.

Suffice to say all you independent “ not on my property I don’t trust any utility and I know a guy whose brother-in-law‘s barber is married to her kid sister“ who knows first hand not to trust any business that resembles big brother and I’ll certainly show’em who’s in charge if they try that on my property.“.

Now, just for fun, replace 'REMC' in the above post with 'HOA' and see if it sounds familiar

 

[BugI02]

I wonder if Smart Meters made this possible. Might as well just do away with budgeting if it can be changed quarterly...​

Email from Duke Energy this week:​

Sounds like they expect electric rates to become volatile and want to make sure they're not left holding too big of a bag at any time

 

[BugI02]

Sorry you don't want to take the time to enlighten those of us who have inquiring and questioning minds. But with your disdain and derogatory remarks I wonder if you could give unbiased facts.

I get a bigger laugh out of the assumption that being a director somehow makes him an expert on technical issues as well as the assumption that someone who has a financial interest in one particular version of 'the truth' can necessarily be relied upon to be a straight shooter

 

[Ingomike]

What? Nuclear, Natural Gas, and Hydro all have the ability to store the "fuel"

Now if you want to say wind and solar don't have the ability to store the fuel I will agree with that.

No they don’t. Not in the same way.

 

[Jaybird1980]

No they don’t. Not in the same way.

I have a feeling you're well out of your lane.

They most certainly do.

 

[churchmouse]

Our meter was swapped out last year one day. No notice, just a quick power outage. I thought it was odd since there was no weather but all my critical stuff is on UPS so I didn't think anything of it. Later that day I noticed the new meter. Did a quick look around the neighborhood and saw that all meters had seeming been changed. This is from IPL/AES.

I'm not too concerned. In a hacking, SHTF, or emergency situation it should be easy enough to bypass the meter. That assumes the utility is still live at all though.

Same here but as my meter is inside I had to let them in but our rental was changed with no notice.

 

[Ingomike]

What? Nuclear, Natural Gas, and Hydro all have the ability to store the "fuel"

Now if you want to say wind and solar don't have the ability to store the fuel I will agree with that.

The issue is that NG storage is not economically feasible and the gas lines froze in Texas and the windmills were not winter grade so they had nothing. If they had coal plants and coal on the ground they would have been better off.

A nuke cannot be turned on or shut down on whims, it is a big process. Yes, they could store rods but that in not germane to this topic. We are discussing the flexibility coal gives over other sources.

How the heck do you store hydro? And what river capable of major energy creation should we put this on?

 

[Ingomike]

I have a feeling you're well out of your lane.

They most certainly do.

Maybe you are out of your lane…

 

[Jaybird1980]

Maybe you are out of your lane…

Maybe my career has been in the electric production facilities. All of the ones mentioned except for nuclear, but whatever you say.

 

[BugI02]

How the heck do you store hydro?