Neighbor/Burglar trade shots in Indy

[jeremy]

Not a tough call at all. It is the right thing to do, help out your neighbor, support your community.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

It aint always as easy as "support your community". It will be a cold day in a hot place before I go running into someone else's house whom I dont know to protect some property that is likely insured. We all have a commitment to our community but I also have a commitment to my own family to stay alive. I am 100% down with helping out someone in need, up to a point. I am even willing to risk my life to save the life of a stranger. I am not willing to rush blindly into an unknown and potentially deadly situation to save someone else's belongings.

 

[jeremy]

It aint always as easy as "support your community". It will be a cold day in a hot place before I go running into someone else's house whom I dont know to protect some property that is likely insured. We all have a commitment to our community but I also have a commitment to my own family to stay alive. I am 100% down with helping out someone in need, up to a point. I am even willing to risk my life to save the life of a stranger. I am not willing to rush blindly into an unknown and potentially deadly situation to save someone else's belongings.

Have you ever read of the broken window theory?
Neighbors are what establishes a community. Where I am at it could be hours before LEO's show up. You have to stay vigilant to deter criminal activity (notice vigilant and NOT vigilante). Once they figure out they can start getting away with petty crime, it will escalate to larger. It is a proven pattern time and time again. People are what either stop this action before it gets to bad or let it grow more serious. Maybe the people here are just to damn conservative and old-fashioned.

And that is why I am glad you live were you live and I live were I am. I know that my neighbors would likely meet someone coming out of my buildings with loaded shotguns.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

I don't think Mike suggested that you allow petty crime to continue. I think he suggested that you not run blindly into a situation where you could easily get killed because you don't have any details of what's happening. A little forethought may keep you alive. If risking your life in the prevention of property theft is what you need to do to feel like you are maintaining the structure of society, well.... so be it. I think that there is a middle ground between your two positions and it is probably shared by both of you, though possibly not understood as such.

 

[agentl074]

People who live in not-nice neighborhoods have an even more urgent need for self defense and firearms.

Neighborhood watch! It should've been more than one....

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

So you are saying you wouldn't act to protect your neighbor's life? I suppose you wouldn't risk your safety to save your neighbor from a fire either? Glad you are not my neighbor.

Sorry for not answering sooner on this. I was offline all day.

To clarify what I am saying:

If I think that my neighbor's house is potentially being robbed I would first call 911 to have the LEO's on the way to arrest the alleged perps. I would then secure my own property to protect my family and my belongings (lock doors, close windows, warn family members outside or in the house, etc.). I would gather more information about what is going on at my neighbor's house such as writing down any license plate numbers, descriptions of the alleged perps, etc. and what their activities were, such as carrying a TV out of the house, etc. Only then would I attempt to get closer to the situation to confront the alleged perps by inquiring what their purpose is in the neighbor's house, not threatening them with a firearm unless it is a last resort since I know that the LEO's are on their way and I have information in hand to give them. Possessions can be replaced. People (me!) can't.

The same way with a fire at a neighbor's house, since you brought it up. First, a call to 911 to get the professionals on the way and then doing whatever I can to get the neighbors out of the house and fighting the fire until the fire department shows up.

My personal safety is more important to me than an unrelated (in-laws, brother, parents, etc. living next door is a whole different situation) neighbor's safety when it comes to the involvement of firearms such as in the article referenced. I, personally, won't go blindly charging into a potentially dangerous situation.

The article doesn't make clear to me if the homeowner who was wounded went charging into the situation or was doing like I wrote above and was just checking out what was going on and then was fired upon, so I am not writing that he did wrong. I am only writing what I would have done in the same circumstances.

I do watch what goes on in my quiet neighborhood, not to be nosy of what my neighbors are doing but to take notice of what is "normal" so that I am subconsciously aware when something is out of the normal around my house. Being a disabled veteran who is nearly confined to my house because of physical disabilities, I am the one on my street who is normally home during the day when most people around me are hard at work, trying to bring home the bacon (as Scutter might say) to feed their families so I do have a plan of action of what I will do if I think that there is something illegal going on around me.

If that makes me a bad neighbor, it's the best that I can do. So be it.

 

[AFA1CY]

Blue Tile Spook

Thanks for clearing that up. I think the message I was trying to get across is that if my neighbor's house (car, boat, garage, etc.) is being broken into I would do the "be a good wittness" thing. However if I knew that my neighbors were in any type of danger (home invasion, robbery) I would act within reason to prevent or terminate such threat. Each incident is different and I would have to act in light of that. Please do not take any offense at my remarks, I have just heard the "be a good witness" statement so many times and I think that is a wrong attitude in this day and age. Robbers are no longer content just to steal, but to do harm.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

No problem, AFA1CY.

It used to be, "Give me your money or I'll shoot you." Now it seems to be, "Give me your money or I'll shoot you and may go ahead and shoot you even if you do give me your money."

 

[ProudAmerican]

There are some things missing in this story - like did he call the PD before going over to confront the criminals? But as far as his right to use deadly force - he only confronted them (I am assuming without the gun drawn - although this is another missing piece) then THEY shot him in the hand - THEN he returned fire. At that point it is no longer shooting to protect property but it was a true self-defense return fire.

I think the first response should be to call 911 and get the PD rolling. If you know the house is not occupied (other then the bad guys), then get as much information about the BG's and any vehicle information as you can from the safety of your house and wait for the PD to pass on the info to (if you can get some pictures safely then hey even better). If there are people possibly in the house; then you need to decide what action to take and if your neighbor is worth going to prison for or loosing all your assets in a civil suit for.

Being a good neighbor and making sure you do not cause sever suffering to your family are two different things. I don't think anyone should be shamed for not chancing their life, freedom, or major assets to step into a situation that does not involve their family or themselves.

Note I am not a lawyer or a legal professional but this is the way I would look at it personally.

 

[jeremy]

I am not meaning to shame anyone for their response.
IF times are headed where many of us believe them to be going. Communities WILL have to start pulling together. This starts with neighbors helping neighbors. In my community we are very rural it is 15+ minutes till a deputy may get out here. 5-10 minutes for the VOLUNTEER fire/ambulance service to arrive. Here it starts as neighbors, then escalates to deputy/fire/EMS as needed.
I have lived in several major Cities around this country and world. I have seen how towns turn into ghettos. The broken window theory works 9 out of 10 times.