Need some feed back on my way of thinking for home defense

[Dorky_D]

Any projectiles with significant weight will over penetrate. Take a look at youtube videos (some already here).
Let me add a couple of thoughts to the mix from a somewhat educated keyboard commando (see what I did there).

1. If you are planning on missing and hitting something, don't! Hit what you are aiming at, get some training and practice. It is somewhat of a mindset thing and obviously there is no perfect world just yet, but train, be trained, practice and be proficient, so you greatly reduce your risk of missing and over penetrating.
2. Do your research on over penetration. Pistol rounds and shotgun rounds WILL over penetrate (FYI talking about shotgun slugs and 00 buck, perhaps less so with #4 and so on). Rifle rounds are not the over penetrators (not talking about 50 BMG and other more on the crazy spectrum) that people think. The main thing for over pentration (layers of drywall not body armor) is the weight and energy of the projectile. Hot 5.56 can be very hard to stop for body armor, but less so for building materials etc. Watch the Youtube videos. That said, it can still over penetrate, but not more so than 00 buck, slugs or pistol rounds. (Yes there will be exceptions, so don't flame me on this, just look at some stuff others have done)
3. Be aware of your surroundings, and know when and where you can take a shot. It is part of the 4 universal firearm rules. Be aware of your target and what is behind it (and through it and in the next 5 rooms and the house next to you).
4. Really as part of 3 above, but an angle can make all the difference. What if you lower yourself, so the path of a projectile is now up and away from the short little ones in the room next door? What if you are shooting down from the 2nd floor. Would any projectiles go to the floor? Is there anything you do not want to destroy below the floor?

I know the above thoughts are not magic solutions, but I wanted to add a few thoughts.

 

[saddlegunfan]

I use the Judge with Federal personal defense 000 buck. The 410 @ 10’ has a much smaller spread than 12ga which is why I chose it bc I’d worried it might hit my dog if he jumps up. If you get a chance to try it on a sheet of drywall vs the 12 I feel like you will be really impressed and you can add a laser or surefire.

 

[Doug56]

Lots of good information here for this newbie. Question: no one has mentioned the KSG or DP12 as an easy-to-handle shotgun option. Any comments? I am considering a KSG for HD due to capacity, length (harder for intruder to grab), ease of mounting a light, and so on. Thoughts?

 

[shootinit]

Perhaps there should be more emphasis on good advice than correcting grammar and spelling. Some good, but very little good advice from those types ever on here. First of, the very last thing you ever want to do is take a life. If you ever have to, you will never be the same again. I have prepaired my home with 5 stratigic outdoor sound and movement sensors. They are not lighted, but instead send a signal to a device beside my bed. A dim flashing light and a buss alarm. It will wake me. Time is what you need to deter anyone that is trying to enter your home. A good top quality security system is less costly than a few of your 1911's. Not saying they will replace a personal home defense weapon. Sensor lighting is worthless. A good BB gun will take care of those. The weapon of choice is one you train with, and that you can shoot accurately. Also you should have at minimum, night sights. A tactical light or a green laser even better. As seen by the video, all the ammo will all penetrate wallboard, including a 22LR. Hopefully you do train for the worst and never ever have to use your weapon. Think FIRST about deterring the bad guy. The very last resort is you being forced into a situation where you need to fire your weapon at someone. No matter what weapon you choose.

 

[cosermann]

I use the Judge with Federal personal defense 000 buck. The 410 @ 10’ has a much smaller spread than 12ga which is why I chose it ...

What was your spread at 10 feet when you tested that Federal load?

 

[Duce]

Perhaps there should be more emphasis on good advice than correcting grammar and spelling. Some good, but very little good advice from those types ever on here. First of, the very last thing you ever want to do is take a life. If you ever have to, you will never be the same again. I have prepaired my home with 5 stratigic outdoor sound and movement sensors. They are not lighted, but instead send a signal to a device beside my bed. A dim flashing light and a buss alarm. It will wake me. Time is what you need to deter anyone that is trying to enter your home. A good top quality security system is less costly than a few of your 1911's. Not saying they will replace a personal home defense weapon. Sensor lighting is worthless. A good BB gun will take care of those. The weapon of choice is one you train with, and that you can shoot accurately. Also you should have at minimum, night sights. A tactical light or a green laser even better. As seen by the video, all the ammo will all penetrate wallboard, including a 22LR. Hopefully you do train for the worst and never ever have to use your weapon. Think FIRST about deterring the bad guy. The very last resort is you being forced into a situation where you need to fire your weapon at someone. No matter what weapon you choose.

Good point about avoiding a confrontaion. Years ago I read an in-depth article on self defense. Emotional damage aside, many found themselves bankrupt from defending themselves from some headline hungry DA. Your best defense is your knowledge and lots of practice.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

OP - I must apologize for not posting THIS LINK to the Rangemaster January Newsletter. Tom Givens is a well respected firearms instructor and his lead article this month is about defensive shotguns.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Lots of good information here for this newbie. Question: no one has mentioned the KSG or DP12 as an easy-to-handle shotgun option. Any comments? I am considering a KSG for HD due to capacity, length (harder for intruder to grab), ease of mounting a light, and so on. Thoughts?

Capacity is irrelevant and avoiding/defeating a gun grab is more training issue than hardware issue. There's never been a time when my life was potentially on the line that I thought to myself "I wish I had something manufactured by Kel-tec right now".

I stick with the 870 with surefire foregrip.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Perhaps there should be more emphasis on good advice than correcting grammar and spelling. Some good, but very little good advice from those types ever on here. First of, the very last thing you ever want to do is take a life. If you ever have to, you will never be the same again. I have prepaired my home with 5 stratigic outdoor sound and movement sensors. They are not lighted, but instead send a signal to a device beside my bed. A dim flashing light and a buss alarm. It will wake me. Time is what you need to deter anyone that is trying to enter your home. A good top quality security system is less costly than a few of your 1911's. Not saying they will replace a personal home defense weapon. Sensor lighting is worthless. A good BB gun will take care of those. The weapon of choice is one you train with, and that you can shoot accurately. Also you should have at minimum, night sights. A tactical light or a green laser even better. As seen by the video, all the ammo will all penetrate wallboard, including a 22LR. Hopefully you do train for the worst and never ever have to use your weapon. Think FIRST about deterring the bad guy. The very last resort is you being forced into a situation where you need to fire your weapon at someone. No matter what weapon you choose.

I've never seen an intruder take out a light with a BB gun prior to the invasion. The most "outside prep" I've seen is cutting phone and cable lines, which is a good reason to have a cell transmitter for your alarm.

As far as "never being the same again" people react differently. I'm the same. It's ok to be the same, and it's ok to not be...but don't assume it's going to change your personality, give you PTSD, etc. It might. It might not.

I'm less concerned with night sights than I used to be. There's nothing wrong with having them, I just find they aren't the hard requirement I thought they were.

A layered defense, including alarms and lighting, is absolutely a good idea. Deterrence is certainly the first goal.

5.56 JSP seems to be one of the best options for reduced penetration through walls but maintaining really good terminal ballistics.

I don't really have an opinion on lasers. I've not seem them used enough "in the wild" to make any determination.

 

[Doug56]

Capacity is irrelevant and avoiding/defeating a gun grab is more training issue than hardware issue. There's never been a time when my life was potentially on the line that I thought to myself "I wish I had something manufactured by Kel-tec right now".

I stick with the 870 with surefire foregrip.

LOL... ok then, tell me what you really think about Kel-tec! Seriously though, thanks for the opinion. This is the kind of information I need to consider. I also plan to take training classes at my local range before committing to any specific shotgun, as I feel it is important to try out more than one option to determine what suits me the best. Thanks again!

 

[Borock]

I have the Judge (.410) with birdshot for the first round as a warning and Hornady's Critical Defense for the next 4 if the BG doesn't heed my verbal and firearm warning. At 7yds the CD will put 3 sizable holes only 2" apart in whatever gets in their way. I also have easy access to a Glock as my backup and I always have a good tactical flashlight either in my hand or mounted on my firearm.

 

[bwframe]

(waiting for BBI...)

 

[Ruger44fan]

I know this has been mentioned but don't assume a shotgun load, even bird shot won't penetrate your walls. Its a common misconception that a shot gun will cover a hallway or large area so you have a better chance of hitting your target. Unless your house and hallways are 20 to 30 yards long a shotgun round pattern will not open up in normal house distances. You still have to be able to hit the target and that means practice, practice, practice. Get training and practice with some stress added like timed shooting, your adrenaline levels will be sky high in a break in and your ability to fire accurate rounds will be cut in half so keep that in mind what ever firearm you plan to use. Also and this is important know your state laws regarding self defense and what you need to know to stay out of trouble later. A family plan so you and your spouse know exactly what to do and where to go to stay out of the line of fire. Always keep a cell phone near you to call 911, landlines can be cut.
Hopefully you will never have to be in that situation but be prepared for it if it comes. That's my 2 cents
And by the way you can get a flashlight attached to your shotgun if you have something to attached it with.

 

[indiucky]

(waiting for BBI...)

LOL...He was down here in the shop one day and I showed my my Mossberg HD .410.....I said, "I think it'll be okay for HD..."

I then got one hour of real world scenarios regarding .410 wounds...Needless to say I am back to my 20 gauge...

 

[dhw9am]

I get a little lost in situations like yours. You say you have a house alarm. Does that mean your alarm goes to a central station,
or merely sound an alarm only you can here? In my area, we get very fast police response, and it is low crime. My concern, is to
know exactly where my family is, before I do anything. Then me and my SW 15 round 9mm, will do what is necessary to stay safe.
I have over simplified this, but I wish you luck. I have always felt having a good pistol that I maintain and practice with regularly, is
my choice for home protection.
Going through a dark house, with a long gun, makes trouble in my narrow hallways.
I would imagine, many if not most Intruders will leave, if a loud house alarm is triggered.

 

[acaciaiu62]

what ever you decide please consider scenario based training. Check out MTAC, Muncie Threat Assessment Center. They have a class on home invasion. mtac.com.

 

[Archer]

Frankly, a shotgun is not an ideal tool for home defense. You’re definitely on the right track.

Stopping power isn’t a thing. While a shotgun is a devastating weapon, plenty of people have been shot with them and kept moving. Same goes for virtually every round in existence. Shot placement is key, and is much more precisely accomplished with a rifle round than a shotgun shell.

Shotguns by nature are a platform of limited rounds capacity. Extra rounds in a saddle that have to be reloaded one at a time is not ideal for a gunfight. They’re slow to reload, and it’s easy to short stroke a pump gun under stress. 00 buck is absolutely capable of over penetration. When dealing with firearms in the house, virtually everything runs that risk.

An AR of any barrel length 16” and under would be a far wiser choice. You’re more than tripling your capacity with a 30 round mag, even more with a Magpul 40 round or 60rd magazine.. Will you likely need that much? No, hopefully not. But it’s there, and doesn’t need to be loaded like a shotgun does. Additionally, with an AR you can answer your illumination problem by mounting a quality light directly to the weapon.

If you’re willing to put the money into a quality AR and the time into proper training, I would say you’re right on the money.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have the Judge (.410) with birdshot for the first round as a warning and Hornady's Critical Defense for the next 4 if the BG doesn't heed my verbal and firearm warning. At 7yds the CD will put 3 sizable holes only 2" apart in whatever gets in their way. I also have easy access to a Glock as my backup and I always have a good tactical flashlight either in my hand or mounted on my firearm.

Bird shot is for birds and the Judge is a marketing gimmick cooked up for when Carjacking was the fear du jour. The Glock, assuming quality ammo, is a much better choice.

Additionally, the notion of having a non-disabling first shot is a bad idea from a tactics standpoint and questionable from a legal one. It's still, by legal definition, deadly force. Deadly force is not used as a warning, it's used to defend life or prevent a forcible felony. In short, anything worth shooting is worth staying shot.

Frankly, a shotgun is not an ideal tool for home defense. You’re definitely on the right track.

Stopping power isn’t a thing. While a shotgun is a devastating weapon, plenty of people have been shot with them and kept moving. Same goes for virtually every round in existence. Shot placement is key, and is much more precisely accomplished with a rifle round than a shotgun shell.

Shotguns by nature are a platform of limited rounds capacity. Extra rounds in a saddle that have to be reloaded one at a time is not ideal for a gunfight. They’re slow to reload, and it’s easy to short stroke a pump gun under stress. 00 buck is absolutely capable of over penetration. When dealing with firearms in the house, virtually everything runs that risk.

An AR of any barrel length 16” and under would be a far wiser choice. You’re more than tripling your capacity with a 30 round mag, even more with a Magpul 40 round or 60rd magazine.. Will you likely need that much? No, hopefully not. But it’s there, and doesn’t need to be loaded like a shotgun does. Additionally, with an AR you can answer your illumination problem by mounting a quality light directly to the weapon.

If you’re willing to put the money into a quality AR and the time into proper training, I would say you’re right on the money.

I've yet to run into anyone dead with an empty shotgun in their hand. Capacity is not an issue. There are certainly good arguments for the AR. It's a solid choice as well. For pure inside work, I still prefer a shotgun with buckshot. When I had death threats and the potential for a drive-by, the AR became a more appealing option. For me, the pump shotgun is the long gun equivalent of the sock drawer revolver. Something that can sit neglected for years and still run when you need it to. I also don't get the point of shorty ARs unless you want to run a suppressor. I'd personally not want the extra noise and muzzle flash. I still carry a musket at work, though, so what do I know.

I'd also point out I've seen magazines take an incoming bullet, turning the gun into a single shot. I've not seen anyone fix it in time to not get shot a bunch. That's not an indictment of magazine fed weapons, just that there's always a trade off and your capacity advantage can be gone in an instant.

 

[Lil Bob]

I was having a similar conversation with a coworker the other day. I told him a 12 ga with buckshot is a great home defense gun. He made comment to loading it with #6 or #7 shot versus buckshot. No over penetration. I found it interesting conversation. Not convinced 6 or 7 shot is a good choice.

 

[churchmouse]

Frankly, a shotgun is not an ideal tool for home defense. You’re definitely on the right track.

Stopping power isn’t a thing. While a shotgun is a devastating weapon, plenty of people have been shot with them and kept moving. Same goes for virtually every round in existence. Shot placement is key, and is much more precisely accomplished with a rifle round than a shotgun shell.

Shotguns by nature are a platform of limited rounds capacity. Extra rounds in a saddle that have to be reloaded one at a time is not ideal for a gunfight. They’re slow to reload, and it’s easy to short stroke a pump gun under stress. 00 buck is absolutely capable of over penetration. When dealing with firearms in the house, virtually everything runs that risk.

An AR of any barrel length 16” and under would be a far wiser choice. You’re more than tripling your capacity with a 30 round mag, even more with a Magpul 40 round or 60rd magazine.. Will you likely need that much? No, hopefully not. But it’s there, and doesn’t need to be loaded like a shotgun does. Additionally, with an AR you can answer your illumination problem by mounting a quality light directly to the weapon.

If you’re willing to put the money into a quality AR and the time into proper training, I would say you’re right on the money.

I am with BBI on this one but also have an AR at the ready.
I also agree that anything that is worth shooting is worth doing it correctly.