nazi checkpoint

[fireblade]

Sorry dude, Im not certain what you were saying either. Hopefully, one day, you'll be able to convey to others, what seems perfectly clear to you. Best wishes on your continued recovery!

thanks ..........forum blogging helps to improve it ....you should have seen some post years ago i try to have a thick skin about it ...sometimes its hard

 

[J_Wales]

Personally, I think the blue shirts look much snappier than the brown shirts they used to wear.

 

[sloughfoot]

The boots and the Sam Brown belts that they wore in the 30's were really sharp. I want to be sent to a detention camp by a "well dressed man".

yeah right...

 

[Kutnupe14]

Why the Nazi comparison? If they were nazis, they'd be bleeding in the street and the vid would have never seen light of day.

 

[eatsnopaste]

Why the Nazi comparison? If they were nazis, they'd be bleeding in the street and the vid would have never seen light of day.

Got to agree with you there. I get tired of everything being "Naziism"

 

[edporch]

State v. Jarrod E. Gerschoffer

http://law.justia.com/cases/indiana/supreme-court/2002/03050201-rts.html

^^^Gives a little more insight to what make a checkpoint legal vs. illegal. I worked DUI enforcement for a few years and I am quite good at them. It is no surprise that roaming cars will net more DUI's than a checkpoint. INSC acknowledges that fact as well in their Gerschoffer decision.

It's objective is deterrent, it's mostly PR.

I think it's bad PR, when innocent people are stopped without any probable cause for stopping them.
I know I resented it when an Indiana State Police officer stopped me on I-65 in what I realized later was TOTALLY a "profile stop" because of the type of car I was driving.
It was also scary, being that the reason he gave for stopping me was CLEARLY a lie, and the "reason" for stopping me kept changing as time went on.
It was like being in the "Twilight Zone".

I know I would resent getting stuck in a "sobriety checkpoint" because I KNOW it doesn't catch any more drunk drivers than patrolling and concentrating on stopping impaired drivers.

It also gives potential criminals the idea (rightly or wrongly) that with several police officers congregated in one area doing a roadblock, that there are LESS police officers on patrol and spread out across the area and able to respond as quickly.

 

[John Galt]

Why the Nazi comparison? If they were nazis, they'd be bleeding in the street and the vid would have never seen light of day.

When the early stages of an activity are incredibly similar, and the fact that those activities are increasing in scope and force, I consider it a very valid comparison. Drugs, alcohol, gambling, crime, government tyranny/oppression-in-the-name-of-safety; they all share the trait of starting off "innocent". We get what we tolerate so where this ends is up to us "We the people".

 

[level.eleven]

Why the Nazi comparison? If they were nazis, they'd be bleeding in the street and the vid would have never seen light of day.

An easy way to avoid a Nazi comparison is to not participate in or endorse suspicionless internal checkpoints asking citizens for their documentation while your German Shepherd looks on. If you do those things, the comparison is quite valid. Regarding the recording, just take a look at the daily arrests made for citizens filming their government.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The protesters never said that the police were doing EVERYTHING the Nazis did.

What they meant was that these checkpoints are similar to the ones set up by the Nazis, and that it could lead to worse.

When the early stages of an activity are incredibly similar, and the fact that those activities are increasing in scope and force, I consider it a very valid comparison. Drugs, alcohol, gambling, crime, government tyranny/oppression-in-the-name-of-safety; they all share the trait of starting off "innocent". We get what we tolerate so where this ends is up to us "We the people".

Guys it's a weak comparison and trivializes those that were really under Nazi oppression. What it is, is an inflammatory comment made to illicit a response.

The Nazis didn't sneak up on anyone. Nothing about them was ever considered "innocent." They were quite efficient in intimidation, beatings, and murder well before ever becoming the "official" party of Germany.

If you want to make a valid comparison to the rise of Nazism, look no further than your modern day militia movement. The Nazis started out as a group of former WWI vets that unhappy with their govts actions, began playing "dress up" by buying old military uniforms, the SA-Brownshirts (Brown first because it was the cheapest), handing out rank, and began seeking support/recruiting civilians. As there numbers grew, they engaged in open violence against civilians, police, and govt workers, and eventually attempted to overthrow of the govt itself. After that was put down, they started going through political channels to achieve their goals, which they successfully did.

I personally don't agree with checkpoints, and refuse to work them. I believe that they are a violation of the 4th Amendment. However, implying that checkpoints proof our nation is on the path to Nazism, when damn near every nation in the world uses them, is reaching quite a bit.

 

[UncleMike]

Guys it's a weak comparison and trivializes those that were really under Nazi oppression. What it is, is an inflammatory comment made to illicit a response.

The Nazis didn't sneak up on anyone. Nothing about them was ever considered "innocent." They were quite efficient in intimidation, beatings, and murder well before ever becoming the "official" party of Germany.

If you want to make a valid comparison to the rise of Nazism, look no further than your modern day militia movement. The Nazis started out as a group of former WWI vets that unhappy with their govts actions, began playing "dress up" by buying old military uniforms, the SA-Brownshirts (Brown first because it was the cheapest), handing out rank, and began seeking support/recruiting civilians. As there numbers grew, they engaged in open violence against civilians, police, and govt workers, and eventually attempted to overthrow of the govt itself. After that was put down, they started going through political channels to achieve their goals, which they successfully did.

I personally don't agree with checkpoints, and refuse to work them. I believe that they are a violation of the 4th Amendment. However, implying that checkpoints proof our nation is on the path to Nazism, when damn near every nation in the world uses them, is reaching quite a bit.

^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I refused Sobriety Checkpoint duty as well.
It didn't make me popular with the upper Brass but I wasn't paid to make them happy.

 

[steveh_131]

The point is that tyranny is usually accomplished gradually, and this was most certainly true of Nazi Germany.

People were gradually conditioned and brainwashed to accept the stripping of their rights.

This doesn't mean that modern day police are the equivalent of the Nazi Gestapo. It just means that our government keeps taking small steps towards it.

 

[henktermaat]

Thanks, officers for refusing to work checkpoints.

 

[steveh_131]

Thanks, officers for refusing to work checkpoints.

I think that's a message we can all get behind.

 

[rambone]

Thanks, officers for refusing to work checkpoints.

I think that's a message we can all get behind.

YUP!!!! ^^^^6^^^ Don't let the constitution get in your way!!

 

[John Galt]

The point is that tyranny is usually accomplished gradually, and this was most certainly true of Nazi Germany.

People were gradually conditioned and brainwashed to accept the stripping of their rights.

This doesn't mean that modern day police are the equivalent of the Nazi Gestapo. It just means that our government keeps taking small steps towards it.

^^^^THIS!^^^^^^^
I know the comparison to actual Nazi's is a stretch and I in NO WAY mean to diminish the horror of those that were forced to endure this terrible episode. However, every tyrannical government starts out boiling the frogs slowly and Nazi represents perhaps the most horrible conclusion of where a tyrannical government can end up. Are we there? No way! But, is our government increasing in size, intervention, intrusion, regulation, and infringement on our Life, Liberty and Property while our individual rights are diminishing? Hell yes! My point is that the path of tyranny CAN turn out to be incredibly ugly, and we're on that path!

Plus, BIG to the officers on here that still repsect the Constitution!

 

[rambone]

The point is that tyranny is usually accomplished gradually, and this was most certainly true of Nazi Germany.

People were gradually conditioned and brainwashed to accept the stripping of their rights.

This doesn't mean that modern day police are the equivalent of the Nazi Gestapo. It just means that our government keeps taking small steps towards it.

This is a good point, and mentioned in this thread below. It didn't happen overnight. People were conditioned to accepting further and further infringements, until one day, the level of tyranny had reached unimaginable heights, and yet still people remained in denial.

They Thought They Were Free

 

[level.eleven]

Man gets a beatdown for filming a checkpoint. News story hit today.

APD officers accused of abuse during New Year's arrest | kvue.com Austin

 

[J_Wales]

Why the Nazi comparison? If they were nazis, they'd be bleeding in the street and the vid would have never seen light of day.

 

[J_Wales]

Got to agree with you there. I get tired of everything being "Naziism"

Here is a recommended read...

Amazon.com: How Do You Kill 11 Million People?: Why the Truth Matters More Than You Think eBook: Andy Andrews: Kindle Store

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is a good point, and mentioned in this thread below. It didn't happen overnight. People were conditioned to accepting further and further infringements, until one day, the level of tyranny had reached unimaginable heights, and yet still people remained in denial.

They Thought They Were Free

That's totally revisionist history. Were placing the blame solely on the Nazi govt? Hitler took power in 1933/34 and was dead by 1945.
By 1939 Nazi Germany was at war, with the masses overwhelmingly in support of his goals. That all took place in less than 7 years. SEVEN years. There was nothing gradual about Nazi fascism. It didn't creep up on anyone.
Mein Kampf was published in 1925, and clearly stated Hitler's opinions about lesser races, and the need for Lebensraum (Living space) for the German speaking peoples. These views were accepted "hook, line, and sinker" by the vast majority of Germans. They were proud to be Nazis.

So from a historical perspective, it DID happen overnight because the people were willing.

The problem with the comparison, is that we are comparing current American sensibilities with ones of Germans of that time. Americans have been raised on the teachings of our founders, one that has an inherent distrust of govt. One that believes in checks and balances. This is a very good thing, but completely alien to most former and current European governments.

The only infringements that the Germans recognized where those handed down by the victor nations following WWI (Treaty of Versailles). Germans did not relish the fact that a group of other nations were dictating policy in Germany.......... just like we would have a coronary if the UN attempted to do such ........

So when the Nazis started ignoring "Versailles," and started employing people, rebuilding industry, and re-armed, they were embraced by the average German very very quickly.

So to those, in Germany, that didn't see it happening, I reject their notions. These are the same people that attended rallies, wore armbands, and goose stepped with the most committed Nazis.... and had smiles on their faces.

Most Germans, still living who were adults at the time, now condemn the Reich. Of course it wasn't them that participated in their govts atrocities. It was the dead Nazis. They were the "bad" ones. The Allies were lucky enough to kill all the "bad" Germans, leaving the "good" one to recall how bad it was under Hitler.... they were only smiling because they had to.


(Nuremberg 1938)