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My dream has been achieved...my REAL katana
- Thread starter Bushido Devil Dog
- Start date
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Bushido Devil Dog
Expert
I'd love to help, and definitely could if you don't intend to actually use your blade for training/cutting. --> The only group *I* know of near Indiana that is teaching a legitimate Koryu sword art is our affiliate group in Chicago. There may be others...
For collecting, things like weight and balance mean nothing; for swordsmanship, they mean EVERYTHING, and the "ideal" training blade is different for each person. If you want a blade just to drool over, I am sure Hataya-sensei could hook you up!
Bushido Devil Dog
Expert
Money shots!! 
Tsuba & Hamon 1
Hamon 2
Hamon 3
Hamon 4
Hamon 5 & Kissaki
Tsuba & Hamon 1
Hamon 2
Hamon 3
Hamon 4
Hamon 5 & Kissaki
So... is this a neck lanyard carry able, or perhaps belt concealable?
That thing is beautiful. Edo era? Awesome!!! What a find!
Do the Japanese still train up bladesmiths in apprenticeship and training? Is it still an art and considered a honorable trade to them?
At one time there were only a select few who were chosen through trial and testing to actually become a swordmaker. Just wondering if they still treat it with honor and reverence?
Awesome sword. I want one, and the training to wield it properly.
American Teenage Mutant Mall Ninja!! Hiii Yaaa!!! lol.
That thing is beautiful. Edo era? Awesome!!! What a find!
Do the Japanese still train up bladesmiths in apprenticeship and training? Is it still an art and considered a honorable trade to them?
At one time there were only a select few who were chosen through trial and testing to actually become a swordmaker. Just wondering if they still treat it with honor and reverence?
Awesome sword. I want one, and the training to wield it properly.
American Teenage Mutant Mall Ninja!! Hiii Yaaa!!! lol.
Bushido Devil Dog
Expert
So... is this a neck lanyard carry able, or perhaps belt concealable?
That thing is beautiful. Edo era? Awesome!!! What a find!
Do the Japanese still train up bladesmiths in apprenticeship and training? Is it still an art and considered a honorable trade to them?
At one time there were only a select few who were chosen through trial and testing to actually become a swordmaker. Just wondering if they still treat it with honor and reverence?
Awesome sword. I want one, and the training to wield it properly...
The apprenticeship to become a licensed/fully recognized smith requires a 5 year *minimum* period of training. Most stick stay with their teacher a few more years even after passing their test & getting their license, both to soak up more knowledge/experience, and due to the fact that it takes $$ to go out on ones own & build a forge. Also, as a new smith, it takes time to build up a reputation...no name/fame = no one buying your blades.
When I was living in Gunma-ken, Ota-shi, I met and talked with an uchi-deshi = live-in student/apprentice of one of Japan's (only two) Living National Treasure swordsmiths, Osumi Toshihira. -->
"To support preservation and inheritance of important art performances and craftsman's techniques of Japanese tradition, the system of Important Intangible Cultural Property重要無形文化財 was initiated and established in Showa 29, 1954 by the Japanese government. This is the highest level of recognition a living Japanese artist or artisan could receive. Individuals holding this title are also known as living National Treasures, Ningen Kokuho人間国宝. The Agency for Cultural Affairs, a division of Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology of Japanese government, is responsible for selection and awarding of this title. Among about 150 individuals so far awarded with the Ningen Kokuho title in the craftsman fields, six are outstanding sword smiths. They are Takahashi Sadatsugu 高橋貞次awarded in Showa 32, Miyairi Yukihira 宮入行平in Showa 38, Gassan Sadakazu 月山貞一in Showa 46, Sumitani Masamine 隅谷正峰in Showa 56, Amata Akitsugu 天田昭次in Heisei 9, 1997, and Osumi Toshihira 大隈俊平in Heisei 9. The last two smiths are still active, while other four have passed away. These smiths are well known to Nihonto enthusiasts in Japan and around the world."
He told me that as a student of Osumi-sensei, he recieved only about $500 a month as salary*, and had only one week off a year, the rest of the time, 7 days a week, he worked...no dates, no girls, no partying with the boys...and he was about 22 when I met him; a very strict life for a young guy at his peak of being young, dumb, and full of
... As I was talking with him, I also notice the NUMEROUS burn scars he had on the back of his hands, which I can imagine happening right at critical times when he probably couldn't move or stop what he was doing i.e. holding the blade for Osumi-sensei, and thus had to let the sparks burn into his skin...all for the love of the craft of the steel. 
This is where the "select trial and testing" comes from...it is mainly self-imposed by the student who volunteers to give up his freedom and privacy (re: the "live-in" part. They are literally under there master's eyes almost all the time) in exchange for the education they recieve. Anyone willing to do that is obviously dedicated to the art. (*On Japan's economy, being the most expensive in the world, that is equalivalent to about $200-250. I just saw a melon in the store for about $80; for some bizarre reason
I didn't buy it!!)On final interesting tidbit about his apprenticeship was that the student were expected to be abble to tell by the sounds of Osumi-sensei's small hammer striking the anvil how hard he wanted them to hit the blade...there was absolutely NO TALKING in his shop when a blade was being forged, and this rule applied to the rare visitor he would allow to watch the process. One peep from a visitor, and he would tell them to get the
out of his shop. This rule is out of reverence to the blade they are making (= the Soul of the Samurai warrior) and to the art they are creating. His blades are mainly bought by collectors, not by martial artists, and for a mere $30,000+ 
and a 3+ year wait, you can have one, too!Despite the fact mentioned above, swordmaking is not a road to riches. The smiths and those who buy their blades do so for the love of the art (collectors) and the superior weapons (martial artists) they produce.
Well...time for me to head out to cutting practice..!
Last edited:
Disposable Heart
Grandmaster
When I was over in Japan, there are still bladesmiths, very skilled and usually X-number of generation bladesmiths. Unfortunately, their services are generally given to government officials (gifts to foriegn dignitaries or company heads) martial artists, collectors plus training is now non-existant in urban areas, almost like fencing in this country: You can still do it, but you have to find a school that does it, VERY rare. With the recent crime increases, some higher crime areas have their sword training programs cancelled as the fear of kids running around with bokken (the wooden training swords) disarming and maiming police, killing civilians, etc... Unfounded fear but not an uncommon occurance. If you aren't robbed at baseball point over there, chances are, a bokken maybe a close second or third for non-edged, non-firearm weapon used in crimes. Swords are a RARE occurance there. If I had a nodachi (long LONG katana, field sword), that would be the equivalent of me waltzing around Yokohama with an M249, needless to say, they would have guns called out on me!
I remember a cool, old series that I caught on late night television over there about a woman who's husband was killed, so she trapsed all over the countryside KILLING men with a bokken. Women were not allowed to have swords, but she did it with essentially an edged piece of hardwood. COOL STUFF! She had learned her skills from her husband who was VERY skilled, but died due to dishonorable circumstances (they ganged up on him). Cool show!
Take care of that katana. NEVER pull it out of it's sheath entirely unless you use it and never put it back into it's sheath unless you use it (training is different). Want to show it to friends? Halfway out is the max allowed by Japanese steelsmiths. Anymore than that, someone will jump up and "draw" on you. Also, they aren't hacking swords, there is a drawing motion involved when attacking. They dont thrust well either. I think its time for you to get some lessons and to hell with Charles Bronson, do in punks with Hokaiden steel!
I remember a cool, old series that I caught on late night television over there about a woman who's husband was killed, so she trapsed all over the countryside KILLING men with a bokken. Women were not allowed to have swords, but she did it with essentially an edged piece of hardwood. COOL STUFF! She had learned her skills from her husband who was VERY skilled, but died due to dishonorable circumstances (they ganged up on him). Cool show!
Take care of that katana. NEVER pull it out of it's sheath entirely unless you use it and never put it back into it's sheath unless you use it (training is different). Want to show it to friends? Halfway out is the max allowed by Japanese steelsmiths. Anymore than that, someone will jump up and "draw" on you.
Also, they aren't hacking swords, there is a drawing motion involved when attacking. They dont thrust well either. I think its time for you to get some lessons and to hell with Charles Bronson, do in punks with Hokaiden steel! 
Congratulations! What an accomplishment... a very proud moment for you I'm sure.
By the way, hubby and I were thiiiiiis close to naming our dog Katana. No one knew what it meant though and thought we were crazy. (We thought "Kat" for short was kinda funny... nobody else got it.)
By the way, hubby and I were thiiiiiis close to naming our dog Katana. No one knew what it meant though and thought we were crazy. (We thought "Kat" for short was kinda funny... nobody else got it.)
Bushido Devil Dog
Expert
Part of the point of this thread (and my blog & youtube page), besides sharing the major buzz I STILL have about my purchase, is to educate, act as a conduit of information, and try to dispel misconceptions about modern Japan, and training in the martials arts here. So with that purpose in mind, while all the smileys make me think your post was mostly in jest, just to offer a bit more insight about the world of the Japanese sword/training in Japan...
Training is very much existant in urban areas. Sword schools are *much* harder to find in the sticks...I tried for 6+ years with no luck up in Gunma-ken. The group I now train with uses several elementary/junior high school gyms in the heart of Tokyo as training sites. The map at the lower half of this page (in Japanese, but the map should display correctly) shows that, in addition to our just-opened (last Oct.) Dojo near the Imperial Palace, we train in Shinjuku (the most "dangerous"
part of Tokyo), Ikebukuro, Shibuya, Shinagawa, Tokyo the station area, and yes, even Akihabara where a loser ran over/stabbed 7 people to death last year. We haven't gotten the boot from any place, either by the cops or the Board of Ed.
In the 10+ years that I have been here, cheapo kitchen knives seem to be the prefered crime weapon, followed by anything that can be used as a garrote, followed by a pillow (oldsters offing their ailing spouse). I check the local news here almost everyday, and only recall (vaguely) one crime committed with a bokken (a motorcycle gang beating, IIRC) several years ago.
Indeed! I was in Osaka for vacation back in 1992 and saw a story on the news; an Iranian tried to rob a cash courier van with a snubbie. They had TV cameras there when they caught him. This guy had a DOG PILE of cops on him at least 5 feet high!! Literally about 25-30 cops piled on top of one idiot.
Sounds like a plot device for the show...there are several verified cases of female buke 武家 that fought in major battles, and they did not have to disguise their gender to do so.
Indeed! An old saying from back in the days says basically, "If you can't kill a man with a bokken, you have no business trying to do so with a shinken!"
That is not called "dishonorable"...that is called "combat". The use of the sword on the battlefield was by its nature often a case of one versus multiple opponents, and every koryu school trained for this reality. A good explanation of this is given at 0:30~1:20 in this video of Steven Seagal in his pre-Michelin Man days.
YouTube - Steven Seagal Black Belt Test (part 2)
I think I heard this same advice/"rule" from Higgens in an episode of Magnum P.I., and we all know how accurate TV is when it comes to weapons handling rules.
The shop owner I bought it from is a 9th dan in Toyama-ryu and Top Dog in the style in the entire Kanto area (= Tokyo, Yokoyama, Kawasaki + surrounding prefectures). He would have got dead in my
if I DIDN'T pull the blade completely out of its saya to examine it. Drawing it halfway out would have gotten my :moon: booted ALL the way out of his shop for not giving a blade the full attention/respect it deserves. Also, I'm not lawyer in any country, but I think the Japanese Police and courts would take a rather dim view of me having to have the sword taste blood before putting it back in the mountings after a complete strip down and cleaning...
If they "don't thrust very well", why have so many knife makers started pumping out knives with points based on the excellent penetrative characteristics of the design of the Japanese katana's kissaki??
Back in the day, when even the lowly ashigaru wore armor of some sort, a stab into unprotected areas was more likely to be the kill shot than a cut. Katana that had broken toward the tip during battle were often re-ground to form a new kissaki and were then used as naginata blades, a key technique of which is the thrust.
..."lessons"? Check...
YouTube - First Cut, new sword
...my first cut with it!!
Training is very much existant in urban areas. Sword schools are *much* harder to find in the sticks...I tried for 6+ years with no luck up in Gunma-ken. The group I now train with uses several elementary/junior high school gyms in the heart of Tokyo as training sites. The map at the lower half of this page (in Japanese, but the map should display correctly) shows that, in addition to our just-opened (last Oct.) Dojo near the Imperial Palace, we train in Shinjuku (the most "dangerous"
part of Tokyo), Ikebukuro, Shibuya, Shinagawa, Tokyo the station area, and yes, even Akihabara where a loser ran over/stabbed 7 people to death last year. We haven't gotten the boot from any place, either by the cops or the Board of Ed.In the 10+ years that I have been here, cheapo kitchen knives seem to be the prefered crime weapon, followed by anything that can be used as a garrote, followed by a pillow (oldsters offing their ailing spouse). I check the local news here almost everyday, and only recall (vaguely) one crime committed with a bokken (a motorcycle gang beating, IIRC) several years ago.
...If I had a nodachi (long LONG katana, field sword), that would be the equivalent of me waltzing around Yokohama with an M249, needless to say, they would have guns called out on me!
Indeed!
I was in Osaka for vacation back in 1992 and saw a story on the news; an Iranian tried to rob a cash courier van with a snubbie. They had TV cameras there when they caught him. This guy had a DOG PILE of cops on him at least 5 feet high!! Literally about 25-30 cops piled on top of one idiot.Sounds like a plot device for the show...there are several verified cases of female buke 武家 that fought in major battles, and they did not have to disguise their gender to do so.
Indeed!
An old saying from back in the days says basically, "If you can't kill a man with a bokken, you have no business trying to do so with a shinken!"That is not called "dishonorable"...that is called "combat". The use of the sword on the battlefield was by its nature often a case of one versus multiple opponents, and every koryu school trained for this reality. A good explanation of this is given at 0:30~1:20 in this video of Steven Seagal in his pre-Michelin Man days.
YouTube - Steven Seagal Black Belt Test (part 2)
NEVER pull it out of it's sheath entirely unless you use it and never put it back into it's sheath unless you use it (training is different). Want to show it to friends? Halfway out is the max allowed by Japanese steelsmiths. Anymore than that, someone will jump up and "draw" on you.
I think I heard this same advice/"rule" from Higgens in an episode of Magnum P.I., and we all know how accurate TV is when it comes to weapons handling rules.
The shop owner I bought it from is a 9th dan in Toyama-ryu and Top Dog in the style in the entire Kanto area (= Tokyo, Yokoyama, Kawasaki + surrounding prefectures). He would have got dead in my
if I DIDN'T pull the blade completely out of its saya to examine it. Drawing it halfway out would have gotten my :moon: booted ALL the way out of his shop for not giving a blade the full attention/respect it deserves. Also, I'm not lawyer in any country, but I think the Japanese Police and courts would take a rather dim view of me having to have the sword taste blood before putting it back in the mountings after a complete strip down and cleaning...If they "don't thrust very well", why have so many knife makers started pumping out knives with points based on the excellent penetrative characteristics of the design of the Japanese katana's kissaki??
Back in the day, when even the lowly ashigaru wore armor of some sort, a stab into unprotected areas was more likely to be the kill shot than a cut. Katana that had broken toward the tip during battle were often re-ground to form a new kissaki and were then used as naginata blades, a key technique of which is the thrust.
..."lessons"? Check...
YouTube - First Cut, new sword
...my first cut with it!!
Man, that is awesome when seeing someone achieving their long time dreams. Thank you for sharing your story and pics of a great looking sword. I am very jealous (in a good way ), I was getting into studying Aikido (little over 3 yrs) before I had to stop (new job). Always wanted to return to studying it, but due to a VERY bad accident will never be able to but I love to hear other's stories. Take care, keep posting and let us continue to live vicariously through you.
), I was getting into studying Aikido (little over 3 yrs) before I had to stop (new job). Always wanted to return to studying it, but due to a VERY bad accident will never be able to but I love to hear other's stories. Take care, keep posting and let us continue to live vicariously through you.
Bushido Devil Dog
Expert
Hmmm...tempting! Let me try to find out who's :moon: I gotta kiss to import a blade. If the list is not too long, I may be interested. I have cut a couple rolls with it, but I don't want to ruin the polish on an authentic blade
in doing so. Will get back with you on this...Site Supporter
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