Muzzleloader problems, need some advice on sabots

[baldguy637]

A few years ago, I switched from powerbelts to .429 hornady xtps with hornady .44 cal sabots in my encore. It shot great, but the gun never felt comfortable in my hands so this year I switched to a camoshield omega.

I love the feel of the gun, but yesterday I went shooting with it and found that the bullet/sabot combo loads VERY hard. I ended up snapping a jag off the ramrod trying to start my third shot. I also noticed at 50 yards the sabot was not separating from the bullet in flight causing ragged holes and throwing accuracy way off.

I backed up to 100 yards, and they are separating and the holes looked good, but accuracy wasn't nearly as good as in the encore. I ended up having to swab the barrel after every two shots or it was nearly impossible to seat the load.

I'd like to stay with the 240gr .429 XTP as I load a ton of them in my 77/44 and handguns. Has anyone used the harvestor crush rib sabots? I've read they are much easier to load in tight bore muzzleoaders but I'd like to get some first hand experience. Thanks.

 

[PGRChaplain]

When it's that hard to load, don't try anymore. How much powder are you using with that bullet combo? If it's that tight and the sabot is not seperating, the Breach Pressure must be going out of site.

 

[redneckmedic]

MLs are all very different. I know some guys that don't have to clean theirs, as the shot cleans the fowling up just find, and others that have to swab the barrel every other shot.

I switched to white hot for my powder... haven't noticed a big difference. However I switched to a 25acp primer/brass ignition and noticed a huge difference in the amount of crud in the throat because of over ignition.

article here
Hornet / ACP breach plug

Try different bullet combos, again each ML likes a different dinner.

 

[baldguy637]

When it's that hard to load, don't try anymore. How much powder are you using with that bullet combo? If it's that tight and the sabot is not seperating, the Breach Pressure must be going out of site.

I'm using 100 grains is 777, never had the need for a magnum charge.

 

[singlestacksig]

check out MMP sabots .. you can order them in a range of sizes.. and you may find a better fit..

 

[baldguy637]

MLs are all very different. I know some guys that don't have to clean theirs, as the shot cleans the fowling up just find, and others that have to swab the barrel every other shot.

I switched to white hot for my powder... haven't noticed a big difference. However I switched to a 25acp primer/brass ignition and noticed a huge difference in the amount of crud in the throat because of over ignition.

article here
Hornet / ACP breach plug

Try different bullet combos, again each ML likes a different dinner.

Thanks RNM, I had no idea those were even available.

 

[redneckmedic]

In order to use the brass case fit breech plugs you have to be able to hand prime and de-prime (reloading equpt)

 

[baldguy637]

In order to use the brass case fit breech plugs you have to be able to hand prime and de-prime (reloading equpt)

I think I'm good in that department.

 

[sun]

I ended up snapping a jag off the ramrod trying to start my third shot

A starter with a bullet loading tip is specialized for starting bullets into the bore and preferred over using a ramrod.
Many TC & Omega owners complain about tight bores and an easy fix is to polish the bore using bore paste.
I also agree about looking at MMP sabots since their .50 sabots for .45 caliber bullets are made in 3 different diameters. TC also sells their EZ Load sabots in bulk packs.

MMP:

Sabots Muzzleload Magnum Products Blackpowder-sabots blackpowder accessories & projectiles

Black Horn 209 powder may not be for everyone, but it greatly reduces the need to swab between shots. However it does require that smokeless powder solvent be used to clean the residue. And the residue can cause some carbon build up in the flash channel that will need to be cleaned out by hand using a small drill bit. Some folks have fired 20 or more shots in a row without any swabbing while other folks still prefer to swab when using it.
If anyone wants to try Black Horn 209 powder, contact Carlos at Ed's Gun Shop in North Carolina. He can deliver it to your door for less than the shelf price at most retailers because he sells such a large volume of it. However I believe that he has a 2 container minimum order.
Many people report that BH 209 is their hands down favorite powder.

Ed's:

Ed's Gun Shop

 

[buckhunterbb]

A starter with a bullet loading tip is specialized for starting bullets into the bore and preferred over using a ramrod.
Many TC & Omega owners complain about tight bores and an easy fix is to polish the bore using bore paste.
I also agree about looking at MMP sabots since their .50 sabots for .45 caliber bullets are made in 3 different diameters. TC also sells their EZ Load sabots in bulk packs.

MMP:

Sabots Muzzleload Magnum Products Blackpowder-sabots blackpowder accessories & projectiles

Black Horn 209 powder may not be for everyone, but it greatly reduces the need to swab between shots. However it does require that smokeless powder solvent be used to clean the residue. And the residue can cause some carbon build up in the flash channel that will need to be cleaned out by hand using a small drill bit. Some folks have fired 20 or more shots in a row without any swabbing while other folks still prefer to swab when using it.
If anyone wants to try Black Horn 209 powder, contact Carlos at Ed's Gun Shop in North Carolina. He can deliver it to your door for less than the shelf price at most retailers because he sells such a large volume of it. However I believe that he has a 2 container minimum order.
Many people report that BH 209 is their hands down favorite powder.

Ed's:

Ed's Gun Shop

1+

Also depends on what powder you are using. But sounds like you may need thinner sabots.

 

[woodshed]

MMP makes the best ones on the market. It makes a huge difference getting fresh ones versus what has sat on the shelves at Wally World for over a year. I like the short black ones for Hornady SST slugs. Worked great in my Savage 10ML-II.

Scott

 

[singlestacksig]

MMP ones are the only ones to use if you are using smokeless with your savage..

 

[woodsie57]

Loading sabots is a pain-use cast lead bullets,there's lots of different ones out there. As an added plus you'll be shooting full 50cal. bullets instead of .44 or .45's. Also, sabot is a french word-just sayin'.

 

[Hookeye]

Does your TC have the QLA muzzle?
Mine does and I hate it, have always hated it.
If mine wasn't collectible I'd cut the bbl down

 

[baldguy637]

Does your TC have the QLA muzzle?
Mine does and I hate it, have always hated it.
If mine wasn't collectible I'd cut the bbl down

Yes, mine does, my encore had it also. I seem to like mine though, what don't you like about it?

 

[baldguy637]

Thanks for all the info guys, I went ahead and ordered 50 MMP sabots as well as some crush ribs. I've got some granular pyrodex I might try as well. I also found some jb bore paste in the safe I forgot I had so I will definitely be breaking that out sometime this week.

I'm using 777 pellets right now but I do have some granular pyrodex and ffg black powder I may try as well. If I'm not happy after that I may just have to try some blackhorn. I looked to switch to blackhorn a few years ago, but no one carrys it around Montgomery county that I know of. I may have to give Pearsons in Marshall a call to see if he stocks it. I've bought my reloading supplys for my rifles there for years but never looked for much else.

 

[lapoozyfan]

you should try the american pioneer powder, I use the shockeys gold version, very clean burning powder.