Motivations for Terrorism

[jbombelli]

Agreed.



Why Americans? There are plenty of other places they could focus their hatred. Does their 'holy book' talk about America specifically? Why didn't Bin Laden target Canada? Do they teach the kids to hate Canada? What about Mexico? Their prophet must have mentioned the U.S. specifically. That is the only explanation for this, if the Koran is the sole motivation.

But they don't use that as their reason. They use our foreign policy as their reason.

Let me put this simply. Do you think Bin Laden would have targeted the United States for his attacks if we had minded our own business?

If so, why did he flat-out lie about his motivations?

Why doesn't the Koran talk about America? Maybe because it was written before there was such a thing as America? Just a guess there... as far as why do they ONLY hate Americans? They don't. They've committed terrorist acts in Germany, France, Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Syria ... LOTS of places. And of course they kill each other just as much if not more than they kill US. But regardless, they do teach their kids to hate us and the Jews, specifically. Why us? Because we're quite possibly the only powerful country on earth that isn't steeped in anti-semitism. Most of the world has a long, rich history of hating Jews. WE as a country do not.

Minding our own business? LOL. Remember, that region of the world has been exporting war against the west for 2,500 years. There's no such thing anymore as "minding your own business." We can't just "mind our own business" and think everything will be hunky dory. It won't be. It never will be. It's far too late for that when they're currently teaching their children that killing us is a good and righteous thing to do. This fight is going to go on for generation after generation after generation. They're still harping about the Crusades, for crying out loud. We could bring everybody home from around the world right now, today, and we would have generations of war coming to us from that region. War against us in their culture now. It's part of their tradition and their history. You aren't going to change that by "minding your own business."

And if Bin Laden didn't have the fact that we had troops in Saudi Arabia, with the permission of the Saudi government, to use to attack us, he'd have found something else that he could blame us for.

 

[88GT]

Huh? We've had forces in the middle east for decades. Long before 2003.

And we have supplied and supported their enemies.

Our presence in the ME prior to 2003 was by invitation of the host nation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if Westerners weren't welcomed, they were forcefully ejected. See Iran 1979.

We have also supplied and supported them. Sounds like they just want to exercise a selective memory and hope nobody calls them on their hypocrisy.

All I see in Bin Laden's irrational tome is a bunch of excuses. Since more than half is ranting about the material excesses of the U.S., one could easily argue that the reason they fight is because they hate our way of life.

Excuses are not reasons. They are excuses.

 

[steveh_131]

Why doesn't the Koran talk about America? Maybe because it was written before there was such a thing as America? Just a guess there...

Yeah. I was being facetious.

as far as why do they ONLY hate Americans? They don't. They've committed terrorist acts in Germany, France, Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Syria ... LOTS of places. And of course they kill each other just as much if not more than they kill US. But regardless, they do teach their kids to hate us and the Jews, specifically. Why us? Because we're quite possibly the only powerful country on earth that isn't steeped in anti-semitism. Most of the world has a long, rich history of hating Jews. WE as a country do not.

So they hate us, not because we supply Israel with money and weapons used to kill their children, but because there aren't enough anti-semites in our country? Really?

Minding our own business? LOL. Remember, that region of the world has been exporting war against the west for 2,500 years.

Source?

There's no such thing anymore as "minding your own business." We can't just "mind our own business" and think everything will be hunky dory. It won't be. It never will be. It's far too late for that when they're currently teaching their children that killing us is a good and righteous thing to do. This fight is going to go on for generation after generation after generation. They're still harping about the Crusades, for crying out loud.

And if Bin Laden didn't have the fact that we had troops in Saudi Arabia, with the permission of the Saudi government, to use to attack us, he'd have found something else that he could blame us for.

Why? Why not focus his energies on his actual enemies, instead of inventing a reason to attack the most powerful nation in the world that did not interfere in his affairs? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[lucky4034]

Wait... so now they hate us because we don't hate Jews?

Or is it because we have empowered Jews to suppress Palestinians? Let's talk clearly here....

 

[88GT]

Wait... so now they hate us because we don't hate Jews?

Or is it because we have empowered Jews to suppress Palestinians? Let's talk clearly here....

It's both. Bin Laden said so.

 

[steveh_131]

We have also supplied and supported them. Sounds like they just want to exercise a selective memory and hope nobody calls them on their hypocrisy.

We're supplying their mortal enemies with weapons used to kill civilians. There's really nothing else to be said on the subject, from their perspective.

All I see in Bin Laden's irrational tome is a bunch of excuses. Since more than half is ranting about the material excesses of the U.S., one could easily argue that the reason they fight is because they hate our way of life.

Source? His 1998 writings didn't say much of anything about our way of life.

Excuses are not reasons. They are excuses.

Why? They have an actual enemy. Right there in their midst. The one that they want removed. The key to their property dispute is right there.

Please, please explain to me why they would feel the need to invent reasons to attack the most powerful nation on the planet, when they have their actual enemy right there in the same region?

 

[Trigger Time]

They hate us for the reasons youve listed, they blow us up mostly because they want us out of their land. IEDs werent that common until we invaded. Now they want to come here and send a message.

The CIA taught them how to make and deploy ied's against the soviets in the 80's.

 

[jbombelli]

Yeah. I was being facetious.



So they hate us, not because we supply Israel with money and weapons used to kill their children, but because there aren't enough anti-semites in our country? Really?



Source?



Why? Why not focus his energies on his actual enemies, instead of inventing a reason to attack the most powerful nation in the world that did not interfere in his affairs? That doesn't make any sense at all.

It was said many years ago that if the Palestinians put down their weapons there would be peace tomorrow, while if the Israelis put down their weapons they'd all be murdered tomorrow. This is truth. You seem to be okay with genocide against Jews. I wonder why that is.

As far as how long war has been exported from that region? Darius ... Xerxes ... do these names ring a bell? Who fought at Thermopylae? Why did Thermopylae happen? Because Darius failed to conquer Greece, and his son Xerxes had to go punish the Greeks for standing up and not being conquered by his dad. The Crusades were mostly a response to Muslim invasion and taking the Christians' holy lands. The Moors extended into Europe. So did the Turks. In fact, if it weren't Vlad Tepes (Vlad the Impaler), Europe would probably be speaking Persian or Arabic today.


Unless you're saying he was behind Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, we weren't interfering in Bin Laden's affairs at all. We simply had soldiers in Saudi Arabia. HE didn't attack us based on anything to do with Israel. He attacked us because we had a presence in Saudi Arabia, with the full permission of their government. That was holy land, remember? He attacked us for reasons of religion, specifically. Nonbelievers on holy land = religious reasons. Simply having troops there MADE us his enemy. But if Kuwait hadn't happened you can bet he'd have found another reason, like our refusal to let the Jews be murdered en mass by his fellows.

 

[steveh_131]

Wait... so now they hate us because we don't hate Jews?

Yes. It makes sense, right? They don't hate us for giving the Jews the weapons to kill them. They hate us for not being culturally anti-semitic enough.

It's not that they want us to stop shipping their enemies rockets. They want us to have more anti-semitic sit-coms.

 

[88GT]

Why? Why not focus his energies on his actual enemies, instead of inventing a reason to attack the most powerful nation in the world that did not interfere in his affairs? That doesn't make any sense at all.

And there you have your answer. It isn't about rational reasons. There's no logic behind it. Why did the vastly outnumbered Greeks stand up to the most powerful army in the world at the time (Persians), knowing they would be destroyed? It doesn't make any sense at all. And yet they did it.

 

[steveh_131]

It was said many years ago that if the Palestinians put down their weapons there would be peace tomorrow, while if the Israelis put down their weapons they'd all be murdered tomorrow. This is truth. You seem to be okay with genocide against Jews. I wonder why that is.

Ok with it? Of course not. Any of my business? Of course not. If you feel responsible for it then grab your gun and head over there.

HE didn't attack us based on anything to do with Israel. He attacked us because we had a presence in Saudi Arabia, with the full permission of their government. But being he had nobody else to fight at the time, if Kuwait hadn't happened you can bet he'd have found another reason, like our refusal to let the Jews be murdered en mass by his fellows.

He said,

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans’ continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million … despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.

Third, if the Americans’ aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews’ petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel’s survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

 

[steveh_131]

And there you have your answer. It isn't about rational reasons. There's no logic behind it. Why did the vastly outnumbered Greeks stand up to the most powerful army in the world at the time (Persians), knowing they would be destroyed? It doesn't make any sense at all. And yet they did it.

I'm not a history buff...but weren't the Persians trying to occupy their land? Sounds pretty rational to me. Sounds kind of similar to current events as well.

 

[jbombelli]

Yes. It makes sense, right? They don't hate us for giving the Jews the weapons to kill them. They hate us for not being culturally anti-semitic enough.

It's not that they want us to stop shipping their enemies rockets. They want us to have more anti-semitic sit-coms.

In one post you talk about the irrational ravings of their "holy book", and then later you mockingly say things "makes sense, right?"

There you are again, trying to understand the irrational through the lenses of rationality.

 

[steveh_131]

In one post you talk about the irrational ravings of their holy book, and then later you mockingly say things "makes sense, right?"

There you are again, trying to understand the irrational through the lenses of rationality.

I think the book is irrational. The people reading it still operate on basic human motivations.

They believe we are occupying their lands, aiding their enemies and oppressing them. They respond accordingly. This is not irrational.

 

[88GT]

We're supplying their mortal enemies with weapons used to kill civilians. There's really nothing else to be said on the subject, from their perspective.

I doesn't matter that we supplied them with the means to fight the Soviets?

Source? His 1998 writings didn't say much of anything about our way of life.

Bin Laden's letter to America. That one doesn't fit your story line though.

Why? They have an actual enemy. Right there in their midst. The one that they want removed. The key to their property dispute is right there.

Please, please explain to me why they would feel the need to invent reasons to attack the most powerful nation on the planet, when they have their actual enemy right there in the same region?

If I were an irrational cave dweller who believed in a false god and preached hate to my children for everybody who was different from me, I might be able to help you out there. But alas, I cannot.

 

[88GT]

I'm not a history buff...but weren't the Persians trying to occupy their land? Sounds pretty rational to me. Sounds kind of similar to current events as well.

Occupy? Not in the modern sense. Fealty and tribute were the name of the game back then. Not until the Romans did true occupation with conquering country holding literal control become the norm.

But the question was one of rational behavior. It simply highlights the fact that rational is not an objective standard.

 

[jbombelli]

I think the book is irrational. The people reading it still operate on basic human motivations.

They believe we are occupying their lands, aiding their enemies and oppressing them. They respond accordingly. This is not irrational.

You can't raise someone on irrationality and then expect them to be rational. Period.

Your whole point of view ignores the fights that they start. We wouldn't have gone to Afghanistan if not for Bin Laden and the Taliban and 9/11. We wouldn't have been in Iraq if not for Kuwait, and then repeated violations of ceasefire agreements. We wouldn't have been in Saudi Arabia if not for Iraq.

They start these fights and then try to pretend they're the victims. It's a shame so many people in the world buy into that line of crap.

And again, that region of the world has been exporting war off/on for 2,500 years. It might do you some good to actually study some history. War against the west is in their culture. It's part of their tradition.


When I say they hate us in part because we don't hate the Jews enough ... it's really that we don't hate the Jews enough to sit back and allow the Arabs to commit genocide against them.

 

[dirtfarmerz]

He's been brought up from birth to believe the people on the other side of said ocean are enemies and should be killed. He's been promised eternal salvation, so to speak, for doing exactly that. It's been drummed into him his whole life. He sees others do these things, and they're celebrated among his people. Then, when those people on the other side of the ocean come over there and start kicking his people's ***es for it, everyone points to the dead and says "see? THEY are the bad guy! GO KILL THEM!"

They are being indoctrinated every day. It is difficult for us to understand why those folks would do the things they do, but they are taught that from their youth, just like our kids that are being assimilated into the collective in the public school system. Obama wants them to start school earlier and to go through the summers to make sure they are good citizens. Stalin and Hitler indoctrinated the children too.

 

[88GT]

No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

And at any point in time the Saudi Royal family could have asked us to leave. Who's fault is it that we weren't asked to leave?

If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans’ continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.

Two words: unconditional surrender. OBL is confusing the enforcement of surrender terms with occupation.

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million … despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

Iraq has only itself to blame.

So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.

If annihilation had been our aim, we'd have done things a lot differently. I can't believe you take this garbage seriously.

Third, if the Americans’ aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews’ petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel’s survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.

If we're so hot to trot to destroy Iraq, we're doing a really awful job of it.

His history of Islam seems to be a little lacking too. The Jews occupied Jerusalem (you know, the City of DAVID) long before Mohammed. Ironically enough, Mohammed is guilty of that which we are being accused. A religion/people whose existence is predicated on the use of force and conquering of neighbors is complaining about the use of force and the conquering of neighbors. You'll understand if I don't take him seriously.

I'm sorry, steve, but if you are seriously considering any of this as justification for their actions, I believe I've given you too much credit. There's a difference between acknowledging that this is what they say is the reason for their actions. But you seem to be intent on agreeing with them without coming out and agreeing with them.

 

[hornadylnl]

If Muslims are so hot to trot to destroy all non believers, they're doing an awfully bad job at it. A 1 billion plus army sure isn't accomplishing much.