More deflategate: Brad Johnson admits paying bribe for ball tampering in 2003

[hoosierdoc]

Gay-lussac applies, right?

GAY-LUSSAC'S LAW CALCULATOR

someone do the kelvin and atm adjustments

 

[mbills2223]

I haz a real big sad

I'm gonna go to the LT6 thread to try and join so I can get a pantless hug

 

[mbills2223]

Guy-lussac applies, right?

GAY-LUSSAC'S LAW CALCULATOR

Yessir, that's what I derived from the ideal gas law since the other variable(s) would remain the same. I never learned the names for all the derivations so I was a little concerned when you posted that up

 

[hoosierdoc]

I was a little concerned when you posted that up

I would never call you a lussac!

 

[mbills2223]

I would never call you a lussac!

You're on quite the testicle roll today. Perhaps you could say hoosierdoc is...





...on the ball.

 

[chocktaw2]

So this is why a fart in the shower smells worse than one in the family room. It's all about moisture/or lack thereof. If it was pressure, it would be a shart.

 

[churchmouse]

Gas Law

So this is why a fart in the shower smells worse than one in the family room. It's all about moisture/or lack thereof. If it was pressure, it would be a shart.

 

[CountryBoy19]

CountryBoy, you should've ran the calcs before spouting off about the Ideal Gas Law.

It's being reported that the balls were deflated by 15%, and the Patriots stated that they always inflate game balls to 12.5 psi. 85% of 12.5 comes to 10.625, which is what the balls were apparently measured at during half time.

Using the Ideal Gas Law, and assuming standard "room temperature" of 68 degrees Fahrenheit and knowing that the temperature reported on field at game time was 51 degrees Fahrenheit, the balls would have decreased to a pressure of 12.1 psi due to temperature.

12.1 psi =/= 10.625 psi

The balls were tampered with or weren't regulation to begin with.

Pro Tip: You shouldn't tell other people they don't understand the Ideal Gas Law when you don't seem to be able to apply it for yourself.

I'll take this opportunity to note that I do offer very affordable tutoring in a wide variety of subjects, my favorite of which is various areas of chemistry! Feel free to see my post here for more info!

I never said the balls were not tampered with, lets go all the way back to page 1, which I guess is too far back for you to read. This is the post that was called into question by the very experienced Churchmouse, who seems to think experience trumps scientific laws.

Time to get my nerd on... air expands and contracts with temperature. Simply manipulating the ball's temperature at a cold football game can get the ball to "pass the test" without actually tampering with the ball. The acceptable range is 12.5-13.5 psi. By warming the ball to body temp you can manipulate over 10% pressure drop after the ball cools. So if NE had their balls at say 12.6 while they were warmed up to body temp, had them checked and passed, then allowed to them to cool to 40 degrees (guessing at the temperature at that game) the pressure would drop to ~11.4 psi. That is definitely not out of the realm of possibility. So then you might ask, how could they do this without being called out for it? Well, simple really, all they have to do is tuck a couple balls under the coat of the equipment managers coats under the guise of "keeping the rain off and keeping them dry" prior to ball inspection, but afterwards just keep them under a tarp etc where they are permitted to acclimate to ambient temp.

Of course, that's just my thoughts; I'm a bona-fide member of the Patriots hate-club too...

Please point to the error in my application of the ideal gas law. Or point to the point where I stated that the balls weren't tampered with.

Can't find it? Maybe that's because I didn't say it. As a matter of fact, my statement merely points out that it is possible to "manipulate" the pressure of the balls without actually removing air. IMHO, I don't consider that tampering, per-se, but I would call it dirty. Were the balls tampered with? I don't have a clue, I really don't even care. The ONLY purpose of my first post was to point out that under the "guise" of keeping the balls dry (under the coat of a nice, warm individual) they could manipulate a ~10% pressure drop after the balls were checked without doing a single thing to them. Then Church had to bring his racing experience into this and point out that I was wrong and that a simple temperature swing couldn't possibly make that much of a difference (otherwise weather changes would make the pressure in my car tires too low according to him).

Either way, I'm out. I really don't care. Anybody with a scientific background knows the Ideal Gas Law, can check my work, and see the truth. Those that refuse to believe don't really matter. Of course, if I'm wrong on my calculations please point them out to me; I'm not against eating a great big slice of humble-pie...

 

[mbills2223]

I never said the balls were not tampered with, lets go all the way back to page 1, which I guess is too far back for you to read. This is the post that was called into question by the very experienced Churchmouse, who seems to think experience trumps scientific laws.



Please point to the error in my application of the ideal gas law. Or point to the point where I stated that the balls weren't tampered with.

Can't find it? Maybe that's because I didn't say it. As a matter of fact, my statement merely points out that it is possible to "manipulate" the pressure of the balls without actually removing air. IMHO, I don't consider that tampering, per-se, but I would call it dirty. Were the balls tampered with? I don't have a clue, I really don't even care. The ONLY purpose of my first post was to point out that under the "guise" of keeping the balls dry (under the coat of a nice, warm individual) they could manipulate a ~10% pressure drop after the balls were checked without doing a single thing to them. Then Church had to bring his racing experience into this and point out that I was wrong and that a simple temperature swing couldn't possibly make that much of a difference (otherwise weather changes would make the pressure in my car tires too low according to him).

Either way, I'm out. I really don't care. Anybody with a scientific background knows the Ideal Gas Law, can check my work, and see the truth. Those that refuse to believe don't really matter. Of course, if I'm wrong on my calculations please point them out to me; I'm not against eating a great big slice of humble-pie...

Your error is guessing temperatures. Not very scientific for someone so well versed in the Ideal Gas Law.

 

[churchmouse]

I never said the balls were not tampered with, lets go all the way back to page 1, which I guess is too far back for you to read. This is the post that was called into question by the very experienced Churchmouse, who seems to think experience trumps scientific laws.



Please point to the error in my application of the ideal gas law. Or point to the point where I stated that the balls weren't tampered with.

Can't find it? Maybe that's because I didn't say it. As a matter of fact, my statement merely points out that it is possible to "manipulate" the pressure of the balls without actually removing air. IMHO, I don't consider that tampering, per-se, but I would call it dirty. Were the balls tampered with? I don't have a clue, I really don't even care. The ONLY purpose of my first post was to point out that under the "guise" of keeping the balls dry (under the coat of a nice, warm individual) they could manipulate a ~10% pressure drop after the balls were checked without doing a single thing to them. Then Church had to bring his racing experience into this and point out that I was wrong and that a simple temperature swing couldn't possibly make that much of a difference (otherwise weather changes would make the pressure in my car tires too low according to him).

Either way, I'm out. I really don't care. Anybody with a scientific background knows the Ideal Gas Law, can check my work, and see the truth. Those that refuse to believe don't really matter. Of course, if I'm wrong on my calculations please point them out to me; I'm not against eating a great big slice of humble-pie...

Hang tough hot rod. It is the way you try and stuff it up....well....my back side.
I never said I was an expert just have "A LOT" of real world experience. In my experiences my opinion is formulated.
Mid-80's. I am crewing on the Hendricks GTP Corvette. WE were done with the engine change so I stayed late to help the tire man as he is overwhelmed prepping for 2 cars with a compound change. The Goodyear engineer is in the garage looking at tire wear as we were having an issue. Hence the compound change. We were dumping the set up gas and using another bottle to get the tires prepped. The engineer and I started off on an hour long conversation about Air Versus inert gas. Tire diameter control, temp control and all of the things involved in keeping the tires alive as long as possible. He stated a few times that moisture was a problem. The info I put to memory that night has aided me many many times down the road from that point. We did not refer to "Gas Law". We did not go to the periodic table to measure molecules or what ever....who does that at a race track at near midnight, "No One"
My opinions, as stated, are from real world applications and how they worked in reality not in a freaking lab or in a computer. I have put these things to the test and they have passed so it is what I know. No more....no less.




If it does not fly in the face of your science I again just so so ****ing what. I was making a point that the temps involved did not effect the balls and if so it would be hard to see on a football pump gauge at least the ones I have seen.
Beyond that...........Who reads Gas Law. Sorry to let you down. It is not that I think you are wrong it is your demeanor and how you put it out here.

Once more......Aw Geez man, let it go.

 

[dusty88]

I never said the balls were not tampered with, lets go all the way back to page 1, which I guess is too far back for you to read.

condescending much?

Anybody with a scientific background knows the Ideal Gas Law, can check my work, and see the truth. Those that refuse to believe don't really matter. Of course, if I'm wrong on my calculations please point them out to me; I'm not against eating a great big slice of humble-pie...

I have a science background and although the "Ideal Gas Law" falls more in the category of background information for me as opposed to something I deal with regularly, I have no trouble understanding it or being reminded of it. I also know that when you restrict your thinking to laws and isolated theories, you can only speak of what occurs in controlled laboratory conditions. Practicality is often much different.

Thus it is useful to confer with, rather than diminish, the practical experience of others.

 

[mbills2223]

condescending much?







I have a science background and although the "Ideal Gas Law" falls more in the category of background information for me as opposed to something I deal with regularly, I have no trouble understanding it or being reminded of it. I also know that when you restrict your thinking to laws and isolated theories, you can only speak of what occurs in controlled laboratory conditions. Practicality is often much different.

Thus it is useful to confer with, rather than diminish, the practical experience of others.

Yup... but even in a lab under ideal conditions he was still wrong.

 

[dusty88]

Yup... but even in a lab under ideal conditions he was still wrong.

It's super-awkward to be both condescending and wrong.

Not that I would know

 

[mbills2223]

It's super-awkward to be both condescending and wrong.

Not that I would know

You and me both

 

[dusty88]

This may or may not be Tom Brady's dog

 

[churchmouse]

Like to apologize to the OP for letting the thread get off the rails yesterday.
Was not my intentions.

 

[dusty88]

Like to apologize to the OP for letting the thread get off the rails yesterday.
Was not my intentions.

It was just good conversation. And I don't own the interwebz

 

[dusty88]

 

[mbills2223]

Deflatriots | Vardagen

 

[ArcadiaGP]

NFL probe says Patriots probably deflated balls, Brady 'generally aware'

NFL finds Patriots employees probably deflated balls | Fox News