Modern day J-frame replacement

[cedartop]

So with all of the back and forth in the recent posting of this thread, https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/270847-when_your_j_frame_isnt_enough.html, I thought it would be interesting to see what the thoughts were regarding a substitute for the venerable J-frame.

Don't get me wrong, I like the J. I also like horses, but I don't ride them to work. So to get to where we want to go with this we need to know what we are looking for. I use a J frame for backup or on a VERY rare occasion as a deep concealment gun in a NPE. Honestly I am not comfortable carrying a J frame as a primary and only gun. If you are, that is fine and this thread is probably not for you.

Many took issue with the above mentioned article because of the authors choice to replace the J frame. Jon mentioned a Glock 26 as his choice to replace the J frame. For many of us that is not a great gun for pocket carry. It can be a little large. This is mostly due to the grip size. To me that is really the one drawback to pocket carrying a semi-auto, because of the grip shape and size, it just doesn't draw as well from the pocket as a revolver. Since I am not a big fan of pocket carry antway, this is not a huge issue for me.

So what are our choices? I will leave that up to you.( Disclaimer; nobody would agree more than I that it is the indian and not the arrow, but equipment is important as well.) So, I am thinking, semi-auto, well built, 9mm or larger, relatively the same size as a j frame, proven reliability, no Kmart guns need apply. A few examples; Baretta Nano, Sig 290, M&P Shield, the aforementioned G26. What else, and why.

 

[lovemachine]

Are any of the Kahr 9mm's as reliable as a Glock 26?

 

[9mmfan]

I look forward to reading this thread since for most of the week my EDC is a Smith 642. I think the biggest problem for any semi auto is weight. You can get an ultralight Smith that is made of some sort of uber-metal. Any semi auto's of similar or slightly heavier weight that are reliable?

 

[cedartop]

Are any of the Kahr 9mm's as reliable as a Glock 26?

The one PM9 I had never had an issue. Like anything you will get mixed reviews, I think overall they are pretty good though. Our local PD issues them as back up guns. When I was there our backups were S&W 638's. That does bring up one point, there won't be any SA's with the same track record as the J frame.

 

[pokersamurai]

I don't think the j-frame has a modern replacement. The only time I carry my j-frame is for pocket or ankle carry, and in that roll I don't think there is a semi-auto made that can do a better job. A j-frame's power-to-weight-to-size ratio can't be beat, and they are much less finicky than the pocket autos.

However, if I'm belt carrying than I will obviously choose my Glock 26 (or one of my larger guns preferably) because once you get into belt guns the advantages of the j-frame over its competition starts to diminish.

 

[lovemachine]

I feel like the j frame is even too large for pocket carry....

 

[obijohn]

If not the j frame, it's a g26. But I buy pants with big pockets.

 

[Fordtough25]

G26 for me, but I don't pocket carry. The J frame I used to have and my G26 both hide with little to no effort IWB. My G26 is my t shirt CC choice, summertime, etc... It doesn't bother me IWB so I don't see myself getting a single stack to replace it with, the width isn't that big of a deal.

 

[STEEL CORE]

I have replaced my J frames with Glock-27.

 

[LP1]

I saw the phrase "...a deep concealment gun in a NPE". Didn't know what NPE meant, so I googled it. I'm assuming that it stands for "Non-Permissive Environment".

The link I found (NPE - What does NPE stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by the Free Online Dictionary.) lists a few others. A few that I liked include "Non-Paternity Event", "Negative Play Experience", and my favorite, "Natural Penis Enlargement". Come to think of it, I guess that a gun in deep concealment could also qualify as "Natural Penis Enlargement".

Her: Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me? Him: It's a gun.

 

[VERT]

Great idea for a thread. I have been thinking about a J Frame replacement myself. First I have to admit that I love my S&W 642. I will also admit that I am lazy and find myself carrying this gun instead of my more capable Glock 23. I can not carry at work and I have small children (schools) so carrying a gun all the time is not an option. The little airweight is great for sliding into a pocket. Recently however I have been considering a lightweight, slim auto. I would like to get away from pocket carry.

J-frames are great for pocket and ankle carry. Not sure if there is anything better. Revolvers draw easily and shrug off lint and dirt. Another choice are the little 380 micro mouse guns. My opinion of those is NO!

What I consider a modern replacement would be a slim, subcompact 9mm. The two that caught my eye are the Kahr P9/PM9 and the Walther PPS.

Glock 26 would work as well but it is as wide as the J-frame is at the cylinder. What you gain is capacity.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

The Ruger LC-9 (single stack) and/or the KelTec P11 (double stack) could certainly be viable alternatives.

The few folks I know personally who own and have shot the LC-9 say that it's certainly a handful.

I know that the P11 is a handful - it was one of the first guns I bought (and one of the first I sold...)

Why the two mentioned above? Thinness & weight + capacity increase = win?

Overall external dimension differences between a J-frame and small autos aren't as big as one would think. Oh - but the J-frame is so small... It looks small until you realize that it's nearly as big as an M&P9c (But an Airweight only weighs 15oz when empty)

For ME, pocket carry isn't for anything that weighs more than a loaded J-frame in a quality holster (I use a Mika), When my Shield arrives ( ), I can almost guarantee that it won't be a pocket gun.

I think I'm rambling - time to bow out.

 

[45fan]

For me, there is no way I could replace my J frame. Its light, reliable, and accurate. The biggest thing for me though, is mine is a hammerless, and can be fired from a pocket in a jacket without worry of hammers snagging, or FTE issues that an auto might have in the same situation.
I do have, and carry, a Kahr MK-9, and it is pretty sweet, but still bigger and bulkier than the J frame. To get down to a comparable size, I think it would have to be a .380 auto.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

I replaced my j-frame replacements with a j-frame.

 

[jgreiner]

The S&W M&P 9c , or the 9mm Shield are good choices.

 

[jesse485]

Kahr P380, I find that the 9mms are just too big. I even have a Walther PPS, but it very rarely sees pocket duty. I could never get used to a snub, the triggers were just awful, and I even had an LCR for awhile.

 

[lucky4034]

I really appreciate this thread as my next handgun purchase will be for conceal carry.... I don't own a wheel gun, and my first reaction when thinking about conceal carry was a single stack 9mm (or XDs) or maybe a CZ Rami... however after giving it a lot of thought, there really isn't much advantage over a revolver.

I guess the obvious pro's/con's...

Single stack 9mm

Pro's
- smaller than a double stack
- carry 1-2 rounds more than a small revolver

Con's
- Less rounds than a double stack
- can't be fired from the pocket
- Can malfunction​

Double stack 9mm

Pro's
- Lots More ammo

Con's
- Bulky
- Heavy
- Can malfunction​

Revolver

Pro's
-Lightweight and thin
-Malfunction is not a problem
-can be fired from a pocket

Cons
-not as many rounds
​

Its a difficult decision for me. On one hand, I own other 9mm semi autos... but the thought of not worrying about malfunctions is a big plus in a scramble. I'm curious to keep hearing from all of you guys on your experiences.

 

[Cam]

Kahr was mentioned earlier and I've kind of become a bit of a fan of them of late. However, I find the PM/CM to not be a replacement of anything in particular, but a nice compromise between, say, my Glock 23 and my J-Frame. It works for pocket as well as belt and does both well.

With that said, I certainly don't see it as a replacement for my J's. I think the reason those little revolvers are still around is because there is not a more reliable, powerful, and pocketable solution out there that contains high marks for the three things I just mentioned. Think about it, the only thing I can come up with that keeps these guns from winning every comparison (for pocket type guns) is capacity. Otherwise, the M&P360 I have will win in every category. Its just those 5 shot limits that makes people think otherwise (even though my Kahr only holds 5 in the mag).

 

[OiRadio47]

Small single stack 9mm/40 of your choice.

I can pocket carry my Shield in the summer with some baggy shorts. My jeans seem to print too much if I try.

 

[indiucky]

Great idea for a thread. I have been thinking about a J Frame replacement myself. First I have to admit that I love my S&W 642. I will also admit that I am lazy and find myself carrying this gun instead of my more capable Glock 23. I can not carry at work and I have small children (schools) so carrying a gun all the time is not an option. The little airweight is great for sliding into a pocket. Recently however I have been considering a lightweight, slim auto. I would like to get away from pocket carry.

J-frames are great for pocket and ankle carry. Not sure if there is anything better. Revolvers draw easily and shrug off lint and dirt. Another choice are the little 380 micro mouse guns. My opinion of those is NO!

What I consider a modern replacement would be a slim, subcompact 9mm. The two that caught my eye are the Kahr P9/PM9 and the Walther PPS.

Glock 26 would work as well but it is as wide as the J-frame is at the cylinder. What you gain is capacity.

Like the prevvious poster I think Kahr's CW 9 is coming closest to filling that role...I think J frames will be around as a carry gun as long as "there is malice in the hearts of men.." My current carry J frames are both in .357, one a 60-10 3 inch with adjustable sights and the other a 640-1...I carry ammo (.357) made for snub nosed revolvers (probably closer to a .38 plus p in performance) and the way I figure it is five rounds of .357 that is easy to carry or .45 ACP in a 1911 package (which is a bit tougher to carry with all clothing types) are two classic, reliable, proven weapons that have been around for 60 years (J frame) and over a 100 years in the case of the 1911...It is my belief that they will be around 100 years from now still filling that role...If we wanted to be prepared for every scenario we could encounter we would all be packing AR's, AK's, and tacted out shotguns with a kevlar vest on but "society and the prejeduice of others" means with have to compromise in our choice of what we carry...