Massachusetts: One year in jail and $500 fine for driving after 4pm curfew

[level.eleven]

Again, Libertarians with nothing to offer but snarky remarks. I've pretty much lost all respect for Libertarians if INGO Libertarians are an accurate representation of them. I'm beginning to see why the 99% of the population who don't identify as Libertarians regard the 1% who do as kooks.

This is a great example of that. Also probably why they don't win elections. The "F" you I got mine message doesn't resonate.

 

[steveh_131]

Actually, I've read that more like 15% of voters have libertarian values. That doesn't mean they all vote Libertarian party.

 

[2ndAmendmentdefender]

Because every act of governance is an infringement, doncha know.

I think the state has every right to make such mandates if it is going to be expected to bail out the stupid people.

The government can easily make the statement "if you drive and ecounter problems, the state will not bail you out!"

 

[Liberty1911]

This is a great example of that. Also probably why they don't win elections. The "F" you I got mine message doesn't resonate.

When every argument turns into a rant about the "drug war", and if you don't agree to end it immediately, the consequences be damned, then you're anti-liberty, it's hard to take people like that seriously.

 

[steveh_131]

When every argument turns into a rant about the "drug war", and if you don't agree to end it immediately, the consequences be damned, then you're anti-liberty, it's hard to take people like that seriously.

I'll at least give level.eleven some credit for consistency, even if we don't agree a lot of the time.

You get an 'F' in consistency, but an 'A' in persistence.

 

[Liberty1911]

I'll at least give level.eleven some credit for consistency, even if we don't agree a lot of the time.

You get an 'F' in consistency, but an 'A' in persistence.

LOL. Have a good weekend.

 

[level.eleven]

I've been in blizzards in Nebraska, Manitoba and Minnesota. They're not picnics, sorry. And even the 'normal' weather is pretty intense in winter. Frankly the factors you cite are irrelevant, unless you want to cling to this notion that the coasts are somehow more deserving of our attention and federal relief monies.

And that's every year.

Also experienced one in Chicago.

You are making a distinction without a difference. Bad weather is bad weather and will kill you wherever you live.

Now federal relief money enters the conversation about tyranny and salt. Good grief, if you can't grasp the difference of a record setting blizzard hitting Boston and one one hitting Bismarck, I don't know what else I can say. Density, a sea coast, an international airport, an old city with a 200 year old layout, financial sectors...more people live in Boston than all of North Dakota combined. The concept that natural disasters are harder to deal with in the world's largest populations centers than sparsely populated rural plains shouldn't be this difficult to grasp. If you want me to say that no one would be inconvenienced by ND being hit hard with a blizzard versus the eastern sea board from NY to Providence, up through Boston...well, no kidding. This may also come as a surprise, but Manitoba devotes more resources to snow emergencies because they experience them more often.

 

[Lycurgus]

=If the roads are clear enough for you to get where your going....

 

[cobber]

Now federal relief money enters the conversation about tyranny and salt. Good grief, if you can't grasp the difference of a record setting blizzard hitting Boston and one one hitting Bismarck, I don't know what else I can say. Density, a sea coast, an international airport, an old city with a 200 year old layout, financial sectors...more people live in Boston than all of North Dakota combined. The concept that natural disasters are harder to deal with in the world's largest populations centers than sparsely populated rural plains shouldn't be this difficult to grasp. If you want me to say that no one would be inconvenienced by ND being hit hard with a blizzard versus the eastern sea board from NY to Providence, up through Boston...well, no kidding. This may also come as a surprise, but Manitoba devotes more resources to snow emergencies because they experience them more often.

Of course you're right. People in flyover country should just STFU and adulate their betters on the coasts. Our existence is so insignificant we should all become indentured servants to fill the coastal coffers. When we're used up and can no longer replenish the federal EBT account, we should just hie off to the glue factory and make way for the next generation of wage slaves.

I would guess most people in ND, MB or wherever have a pretty good idea of how to ride out a storm. People in the East, not so much, so the feds will ride to the rescue again with your dollars and mine.

 

[level.eleven]

Actually, I've read that more like 15% of voters have libertarian values. That doesn't mean they all vote Libertarian party.

How is what the Governor is doing a violation of libertarian values? Is there a point where libertarian values put others in danger for no justifiable reason, in sense, infringing on their values?

 

[level.eleven]

Of course you're right. People in flyover country should just STFU and adulate their betters on the coasts. Our existence is so insignificant we should all become indentured servants to fill the coastal coffers. When we're used up and can no longer replenish the federal EBT account, we should just hie off to the glue factory and make way for the next generation of wage slaves.

I would guess most people in ND, MB or wherever have a pretty good idea of how to ride out a storm. People in the East, not so much, so the feds will ride to the rescue again with your dollars and mine.

Wow. I said nothing of the sort. Have a nice night, I don't have anything else to say to your strawmen and nonsensical assessments.

 

[cobber]

Wow. I said nothing of the sort. Have a nice night, I don't have anything else to say to your strawmen and nonsensical assessments.

Well now, that was easy!

 

[Bunnykid68]

How are these people supposed to get home from work without violating the martial law?

 

[steveh_131]

How is what the Governor is doing a violation of libertarian values? Is there a point where libertarian values put others in danger for no justifiable reason, in sense, infringing on their values?

No, libertarian values do not put others in danger. Irresponsible behavior puts others in danger.

My libertarian values don't change my opinion of this behavior. It affects the manner in which I think it ought to be addressed.

And government force is not the way to address irresponsible behavior. If it was, then I'd also have to support drug and alcohol prohibitions, gun control and other things of that nature. Things that punish people not for causing harm to another, but for doing or possessing things that might cause harm to another.

 

[rambone]

But who will plow the roads?

 

[steveh_131]

But who will plow the roads?

All those brave snowplowers, putting their lives on the line for us.

I like to call it the 'thin, salty line'.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

I have so many conflicting thoughts on this.....If you have a vehicle capable of safely traversing the streets in this storm, then no big deal. If you don't have such a vehicle, and you get stranded, you would probably expect emergency services to rescue you. If you are a taxpayer, you pay for those services. It IS Massachusetts, after all. People are idiots. People are idiots as a result of years of government nanny-ism.

I guess the bottom line for me is, if you take the risk, and get stuck, you are on your own, and the government should not use this as yet another excuse to criminalize idiots. The governor should go on TV and instruct people to not be idiots, and leave it at that.

Mindmeld. Precisely this.

 

[level.eleven]

No, libertarian values do not put others in danger. Irresponsible behavior puts others in danger.

My libertarian values don't change my opinion of this behavior. It affects the manner in which I think it ought to be addressed.

And government force is not the way to address irresponsible behavior. If it was, then I'd also have to support drug and alcohol prohibitions, gun control and other things of that nature. Things that punish people not for causing harm to another, but for doing or possessing things that might cause harm to another.

So all precautionary governance is off the table until an actual tragedy occurs? Is that the best way to handle a city with 1 million people and limited resources? In the above stroke scenario, you would sue the person blocking the the ambulance, correct? So then, since government isn't the avenue to address irresponsible behavior, what entity does? Also, not to be bossy, but you skipped the first question. I contend that it doesn't run counter to libertarian values if you aren't an anarchist. Ensuring a smooth running society in times of natural disasters, protecting those who otherwise can't protect themselves, is a legitimate function of government.

 

[level.eleven]

How are these people supposed to get home from work without violating the martial law?

Most businesses let people leave early. The roads will be congested into the evening. No one will be arrested and stuck in jail for a year trying to get home from work. And, it isn't martial law.

 

[rambone]

I don't know who gets the final say on libertarian values, but I would include 'the right to travel' if my petulant vote counts.

I have no issue if the governor strongly recommended that people stay home. But making it an arrestable offense to pull out of your driveway onto any road in the state - snow or no snow? By way of executive order?