Market "Fairness" Act passes cloture

[VikingWarlord]

U.S. Senate moves forward with proposal to tax Internet sales : News

Both Coats and Donnelly voted for it. We're one step closer to taxation for internet purchases.

Because taking more of our money is definitely "fair". Amazon is fine with it because they're big enough to be able to take that hit. Online small businesses are going to get crushed.

 

[M1 carbine dad]

MUST GAIN "REVENUE"......MUST GAIN REVENUE.......MUST GAIN REVENUE......

It's an almost unstoppable juggernaut, isn't it?

 

[VikingWarlord]

MUST GAIN "REVENUE"......MUST GAIN REVENUE.......MUST GAIN REVENUE......

It's an almost unstoppable juggernaut, isn't it?

"Almost" has to be the key word there. It seems like the trick is to keep it from starting.

 

[Sfrandolph]

Just so everyone knows, there are literally hundreds of different sales taxes across the country. Different rates, different laws about what is taxable. For the little guy, this will be a shut down move. Just the programming to implement this will shut down probably 50% of the websites. Big guys like Amazon and eBay will not be affected. They have the resources to deal with this onslaught. The little guys, it will take years worth of profit to implement. Government, the biggest threat to business and job creation.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I completely 100 percent disagree with you guys. This will HELP the little guy. online purchases where someone can save the 7 percent sales tax here in Indiana causes ALOT of items to be purchased online instead of locally from the small guy. ESP w/ products that have MAP. Ask Vette of A and A optics how many times he has given a lot of customer service to potential customers helping them figure out what they need only to have that person go and buy it from an out of state online retailer because they can get it 7 percent cheaper by not paying sales tax.

This has been a long time coming, and I approve 100 percent!

 

[Slapstick]

How do you expect the welfare state to keep giving to those that don't produce a thing but off spring if they don't find a way to take from those that do? Remember in order to" keep the peace" you have to pay off the lazy lest they riot for their "free stuff".

 

[IndyGunworks]

also, the small online businesses will probably not be affected.

The bill exempts small businesses that take in less than $1 million annually from their out-of-state sales, another concession aimed at winning support

 

[IndyGunworks]

I think what you guys are missing is out of state internet purchases ARE taxed, its just your responsibility to report it. BUT since a vast majority of the people are not honest enough to report it themselves this bill just shifts the burden to the companies selling the product to collect it. The tax has always been in place, this just adds accountability to make sure its being collected.

It passed 74-20 so it sounds like it has a good chance of making it through.


Just think about buds gunshop, if they have to start charging sales tax the mom and pop store will see an immediate boost in sales!

 

[Trigger Time]

I think what you guys are missing is out of state internet purchases ARE taxed, its just your responsibility to report it. BUT since a vast majority of the people are not honest enough to report it themselves this bill just shifts the burden to the companies selling the product to collect it. The tax has always been in place, this just adds accountability to make sure its being collected.

It passed 74-20 so it sounds like it has a good chance of making it through.


Just think about buds gunshop, if they have to start charging sales tax the mom and pop store will see an immediate boost in sales!

If you have a yard sale have you reported your income? Or do you report all the personal sales made on ingo in the classifieds? It's your legalobligation. (I'm not trying to single anyone out I'm just making a point). They tax you when you make it. Tax you when you spend it on something, then tax you when you wanna sell it.
It's just another way for the govt to squeeze tighter and so I do not support it. They are oppressing the average person. De oppresso liber

 

[IndyDave1776]

It seems that the most important problem is being overlooked. We would not have this problem at all if the government at all levels didn't spend too much. This is just one more fix for the addiction.

 

[NathanJefferson]

also, the small online businesses will probably not be affected.

The bill exempts small businesses that take in less than $1 million annually from their out-of-state sales, another concession aimed at winning support

$1 million sure does sound like a lot, but it's not. The margin on most online businesses is so low that $1 million in sales might be enough to employ 2 people, three tops, none making great money.

Online businesses VERY often have less than 5% margin on sales, that would be 50K in profit, totally raking it in!

Just FYI.


I think that some sort of bill to make the current laws be enforced is a good idea, but not this bill. The threshold is way to low and there needs to be protection for local/city taxes. IE if you sell in Indiana you have to collect only state taxes, not the additional taxes levied by county/cities, that is where it gets REALLY crazy (think of all the extra taxes you pay inside Marion county, some items you pay close to 10% sales tax on for different reasons).

 

[IndyGunworks]

If you have a yard sale have you reported your income? Or do you report all the personal sales made on ingo in the classifieds? It's your legalobligation. (I'm not trying to single anyone out I'm just making a point). They tax you when you make it. Tax you when you spend it on something, then tax you when you wanna sell it.
It's just another way for the govt to squeeze tighter and so I do not support it. They are oppressing the average person. De oppresso liber

I will not get into an argument about the merits of our tax system. I agree we get taxed every which way, but I am a very firm believer in this bill. It really does level the playing field and I think it will help brick and mortars tremendously.

It seems that the most important problem is being overlooked. We would not have this problem at all if the government at all levels didn't spend too much. This is just one more fix for the addiction.

Agreed, on the overspending being the root cause, and I would like to see that decreased but fair is fair. If bradis has to COLLECT sales tax, so should buds.

This bill is not about charging extra sales tax, its about COLLECTING already owed sales tax.

 

[jerryv]

Funny how some politicians are so averse to 'raising taxes' when it's income tax, but who will gladly vote to raise sales taxes, or property taxes. I don't know why the state should make $.07 every time I spend a buck. It's my money, and I've already paid taxes on it. F'ing vampires.

 

[Llamaguy]

I like how the bill's website lists the supports and over HALF of the state level groups are Veterinary associations.

Honestly I would rather pay the state sales tax where the business is located, this would at least lead companies like Amazon to locate to business friendly states (if there are any left) and not burden small retailers by having to send 50-1000 different tax payments. The state I'm in didn't do anything to earn the revenue, if they had to win over businesses it might help lower tax rates (AR is over 9% and various by city).



And this is besides the fact I don't feel states have the right to tax interstate commerce (I know the SCOTUS said so) and the alternative is a Federal VAT.

 

[Baditude]

When I purchase something online there is a variety of reasons:

1) Its cheaper, not just sales tax. But this is not nearly as important as some think.
2) Selection: I can compare to other other similar products and read reviews
3) Convienent, if I don't need it now then why bother driving all over looking for it?

Selection / convienence / real world reviews are most important to me

 

[VikingWarlord]

Just so everyone knows, there are literally hundreds of different sales taxes across the country. Different rates, different laws about what is taxable. For the little guy, this will be a shut down move. Just the programming to implement this will shut down probably 50% of the websites. Big guys like Amazon and eBay will not be affected. They have the resources to deal with this onslaught. The little guys, it will take years worth of profit to implement. Government, the biggest threat to business and job creation.

eBay is opposing it, Amazon is supporting it. One of the reasons for that, by the way, is that they provide a "tax compliance" service for online retailers. If this gets pushed through, Amazon gets even more money.

I completely 100 percent disagree with you guys. This will HELP the little guy. online purchases where someone can save the 7 percent sales tax here in Indiana causes ALOT of items to be purchased online instead of locally from the small guy. ESP w/ products that have MAP. Ask Vette of A and A optics how many times he has given a lot of customer service to potential customers helping them figure out what they need only to have that person go and buy it from an out of state online retailer because they can get it 7 percent cheaper by not paying sales tax.

This has been a long time coming, and I approve 100 percent!

The problem with this is that it assumes that all online purchases are made from big box store online outlets (which already charge state sales tax if there are stores in-state). There are a lot of online retailers that ARE your standard "mom & pop" business model, just without a physical storefront.

Hell, most of what I buy online comes from smaller online retailers because it's specialty stuff that, even in a metropolitan area, is hard to find locally. $1M sounds like a lot of money but is a really arbitrary cutoff point, especially because it's about sales and not profit.

There's no discussion about cost of implementation or compliance. The assumption that anyone who sells $1M worth of products (regardless of actual margin) is immediately big enough to be able to eat the costs is pretty large.

I think what you guys are missing is out of state internet purchases ARE taxed, its just your responsibility to report it. BUT since a vast majority of the people are not honest enough to report it themselves this bill just shifts the burden to the companies selling the product to collect it. The tax has always been in place, this just adds accountability to make sure its being collected.

It passed 74-20 so it sounds like it has a good chance of making it through.

Just think about buds gunshop, if they have to start charging sales tax the mom and pop store will see an immediate boost in sales!

I'd amend what you said to say they are taxable, not specifically taxed. The accountability it adds also require additional costs for compliance as I mentioned above.

I wish I could share your enthusiasm but I can't remember the last time a new or higher tax resulted in things being better for anyone, let alone the consumer. I feel like this is just going to result in fewer consumer choices and, as with any tax, a decrease in the purchasing power of the money we have left.

 

[IndyGunworks]

a new or higher tax

It is neither.

 

[Slapstick]

I will not get into an argument about the merits of our tax system. I agree we get taxed every which way, but I am a very firm believer in this bill. It really does level the playing field and I think it will help brick and mortars tremendously.



Agreed, on the overspending being the root cause, and I would like to see that decreased but fair is fair. If bradis has to COLLECT sales tax, so should buds.

This bill is not about charging extra sales tax, its about COLLECTING already owed sales tax.

I'm going to play "devil's advocate" The one thing I see that's going to happen is that people will spend even less at brick and mortar stores because they have less money to spend.

Online does offer convenience , a wider selection and usually a better price . What the "brick & mortar" guys don't seem to realize is that there are shipping costs that offset the saving from sales tax, (if one chooses not to report it). Brick and mortar stores offer the ability to inspect, handle and get advice plus the instant gratification of walking out the door with the item.

People are used to shopping on line and I don't think paying sales tax is going to put a dent in it but not having that little extra just means that they will not have left over money to spend locally. I personally try to buy from the good local merchants when they have what I want and their prices are not outrageous. I don't mind paying a little more to keep them in business but I also refuse to be bent over so for me that's where online comes into play.

People will continue to buy on line, pay more and have less to spend locally. Be careful what you wish for because it might just come back to bite you in the A..

 

[hornadylnl]

If I can't compete in the marketplace, I'll get the government to help me.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I'm going to play "devil's advocate" The one thing I see that's going to happen is that people will spend even less at brick and mortar stores because they have less money to spend.

Online does offer convenience , a wider selection and usually a better price . What the "brick & mortar" guys don't seem to realize is that there are shipping costs that offset the saving from sales tax, (if one chooses not to report it). Brick and mortar stores offer the ability to inspect, handle and get advice plus the instant gratification of walking out the door with the item.

People are used to shopping on line and I don't think paying sales tax is going to put a dent in it but not having that little extra just means that they will not have left over money to spend locally. I personally try to buy from the good local merchants when they have what I want and their prices are not outrageous. I don't mind paying a little more to keep them in business but I also refuse to be bent over so for me that's where online comes into play.

People will continue to buy on line, pay more and have less to spend locally. Be careful what you wish for because it might just come back to bite you in the A..

A few things you are missing. Number one, most of the smaller mom and pop shops PAY shipping to get their items into their store to sell, and the slightly higher listed price reflects the additional cost of shipping, its just not added on after its put in the cart and you go to check out. Most gunshops pay about 10-15 dollars to get a handgun shipped to them from the distributor. So the point about shipping is minimal at best. The products are just listed higher to include this additional cost.


If paying an additional 7 percent will leave people w/ less money to spend at brick and mortars, is your stance, then that indicates that their money is FIRST spent online, and whatever is left over is spent locally. If that's the case then this bill WILL help brick and mortars because there will no longer be a huge difference in the cost of the product making mom and pops more likely to get the first shot at a sale.