Manual safety on edc’s

[Grump01]

I'm thinking the thumb safety on the shield is not as easy to use as one on a M&P or EZ, and others ?? If I'm remembering correctly the Sheild 2.0's thumb safety is the same as the Sheild 1.0 and harder for her to operate? Meaning not prominent enough for her to operate easy enough?

 

[92FSTech]

I won't carry a gun with a manual safety, the biggest reason being that I'm issued a gun for work that doesn't have one, and I don't want to switch things up on myself that could cause the gun not to go bang under stress. I've had it happen to me on the range with safety-equipped guns, and I have no illusions that I'd be safe from having it happen in real life. As such, any gun I carry has the same manual of arms to bring it into action...draw, line up the sights, and pull the trigger.

That said, were my situation different, I am confident that with repeated training and practice the manual safety would become a natural reaction and not an issue, even under stress. I love a good 1911, and someday when I retire I might start carrying one, but for now, I'm sticking to guns without it just for the sake of standardization. I do not believe that having a manual safety makes a properly-handled gun any safer, and I actually prefer to not have one...there just happen to be a couple of platforms that I enjoy shooting that are designed around them, so I'd compromise and train on them just to be able to carry those platforms, not because I think having a manual safety is better.

If your wife prefers a manual safety, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, provided she trains with it and is competent in its use to the point where she naturally disengages it on the draw. I also don't really see how wanting a manual safety is limiting her options, as most platforms these days (aside from Glock and the XD, IIRC...I'm not really up on my XDs) offer guns with them. There are a ton of great choices out there with manual safeties.

Finally, if she's open to the idea of a non-safety equipped gun, just uncomfortable with carrying one, then as others have suggested, getting training from someone other than you might be the best way to get her comfortable with it. I also agree that depending on a manual safety to protect her in the event of a gun grab is bogus, so it does sound like she could learn a few things from some competent instruction if she's willing to listen. The cost of a class is probably worth avoiding bringing that stress into your marriage, and getting input from a trusted outside source will probably help her gain more confidence than she would by just getting told by you. My FIL had some shooting hangups that I just couldn't get him over, so a few years ago I bought him a class for Christmas with a local instructor from another board that I'm a member of, and he ended up having a blast and learning a ton...it was one of my better Christmas gift ideas.

At the end of the day, though, if she flat out doesn't want a gun without a manual safety, then I definitely wouldn't push one on her, and just be grateful that she's found a method that she likes, is willing to train with, and actually is willing to carry at all.

 

[gregkl]

We never did hear what she doesn't like about the Shield. But the Shield EZ may be an option.

 

[1nderbeard]

Agreed with what's been said. If she isn't comfortable with the gun, she won't be carrying it. Training is the answer. If she insists on a manual safety, then so be it.

 

[stocknup]

Did she ever carry a revolver ? Does she think a revolver is a safer option ?
If so , maybe she would feel safer with a hammer fired "Double Action only" auto ?
No safeties , just the Long steady trigger pull that is the same every time ( just like a revolver )
I have a couple of the older Sig P250`s ( Compact and Sub ) Something similar may be worth looking at .
Some like them , some don`t .
But as mentioned , having the proper training and practice gives one confidence and comfort .

 

[indysims]

Have her watch Blackhawk Down.

 

[Dean C.]

We never did hear what she doesn't like about the Shield. But the Shield EZ may be an option.

This , or P365's of all flavors are offered with safeties now too. My wife actually likes a Red Dot equipped pistol as she knows can use it to manipulate the slide if needed . It amuses me to no end , she can actually shoot pretty well just is not really a "fan" of guns.

 

[gregkl]

This , or P365's of all flavors are offered with safeties now too. My wife actually likes a Red Dot equipped pistol as she knows can use it to manipulate the slide if needed . It amuses me to no end , she can actually shoot pretty well just is not really a "fan" of guns.

My wife hardly ever shoots but when she comes to the range with me and shoots .22, she usually outshoots me. Last time, she shot my new 15-22 for the first time and put 10 rounds in one ragged hole at 25 yards. No flyers. I didn't do that. Then she shot the MKII at the plate rack faster than I was able to.

I'm not sure why I keep at this sport, lol.

 

[tcecil88]

At the end of the day, though, if she flat out doesn't want a gun without a manual safety, then I definitely wouldn't push one on her, and just be grateful that she's found a method that she likes, is willing to train with, and actually is willing to carry at all.

That's why we as husbands should not pick our spouse's guns for them. My wife hates J frame type revolvers, which most people recommend for women, though I do not. She has a Taurus 709 that she shoots well and uses the manual safety because she feels safer with it on more so than off. I have taken her to the range and rented her various guns and she always seems to gravitate toward pistols with manual safeys. The Shield 9mm EZ is her current favorite to shoot. I hand her one of my Glocks and she gets all stiff and apprehensive, because, her words, " it doesn't have a safety".

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Just wanted to echo what many others have already said here: whether or not your EDC has a manual safety is not an absolute either way, there really is a cost-benefit analysis to be had here. People have forgotten to take the safety off when they needed to defend themselves, but people have also been shot accidentally in situations where it could have been prevented with a manual safety, especially people shooting themselves by accident while re-holstering their pistol. Which one is more likely to happen? It's a hard question to answer, and at the end of the day it isn't nearly as important as being comfortable, knowledgeable, and well-trained with whatever you do carry.

Personally, I have a Taurus G2C as my EDC. I would recommend either the G2C or G3C as options in your wife's case; a lot of people would dismiss them just because they're cheaper pistols, but mine has been nothing but reliable for me, and one thing I love about it is that the manual safety is incredibly easy to manipulate.

For my own situation, I like having a manual safety. I live and work in a quiet area out in the country, don't go into town at odd hours nor in shady areas, and overall I think I can make a pretty solid judgement that I am less likely to be involved in a self-defense shooting than the average person. Of course I'm not saying it'll never happen to me, and I do my best to train and be ready to defend myself and my family if the time should come that I need to. But I do choose to be realistic about it; accidents DO happen, and I have a wife and daughter at home, and between family and friends am around babies and small children quite often (no, I'm not doing something stupid like carrying without a holster. But weird things happen by accident; snaps get undone, buttons get pushed, guns can fall out, it happens.) With solid, repetitive training, I have made it a part of my muscle memory to always take the safety off as soon as soon as I draw my gun from its holster, and any slight risk that I should fumble with the safety in an important moment is worth it to me to have an extra safety measure in place, given my circumstances.

 

[74 or more]

Single / double action semiauto and leave it on 1/2 cocked position.

 

[xwing]

She is in the best position to decide what firearm she prefers to carry. It's an individual choice, and everyone decides what is best for them. If she prefers a handgun with a manual safety, and if you prefer a handgun without one, neither option is wrong.

And from a "marriage harmony" point of view: If she's made up her mind on something, you likely won't be able to change it. If you push, it'll cause additional conflict but still won't change her mind. At least that has been my experience. My wife and I agree on most things. But if we disagree, it's better to find an equilibrium where we "agree to disagree" than to try and push a change of opinion.

 

[Robert Richardson]

I just had my wife read this thread. She prefers a manual safety also. She said " if she is adamant about it, like me, she will know that she has to take the safety off before it goes bang".

 

[Creedmoor]

I just had my wife read this thread. She prefers a manual safety also. She said " if she is adamant about it, like me, she will know that she has to take the safety off before it goes bang".

Good for her, seems so many miss the word "safe" in safety.

 

[teddy12b]

My opinion will echo many others, and probably upset a few.

#1.) You're lucky your wife carries. Mine doesn't and I'd be more than happy to have her carrying anything rather than nothing. If she's not carrying whatever you would chose, then just get over it and be grateful for what you've got.
#2.) The thumb safety debate is about as dumb as a 9mm vs 45acp debate. You either are proficient with the handgun or you're not. Whatever works for you and you're comfortable with is what you should use.

I've taken plenty of training, and eventually went back to a thumb safety P365 because I pocket carry. Even though I keep it in a pocket holster, there's still been times when I'm drawing where I fumble or get caught or whatever. For those instances I prefer a thumb safety, and I feel 100% comfortable with my decision to the point where I'm willing to bet my life on it.

 

[LarryC]

The manual safety is not the problem. Lack of familiarity with a gun a person plans to carry every day is. The only way to train yourself to disengage the safety at the draw stroke is by training and shooting so the body has the muscle memory to do it sub-consciously. It's no different than a hunter disengaging the safety on their rifle or shotgun prior to taking a shot in the field. I find that I don't even think about it now, it just happens. Same as with my AR's at the range. Safety comes off, shots fired, safety back on. Just happens now through muscle memory.

I agree, for well over 20 years I carried a Colt Double Eagle 45ACP.

It looked like a stainless steel 1911, however it was a DA/SA and the ONLY safety was a de-cocker.

Although I own several firearms, this was at the time the only handgun I usually carried. I shot many thousands of rounds through this gun and never felt the "safety" was an issue. I never thought about cocking it, just automatically did when I drew. The only reason I stopped carrying it was my age! I'm very close to 81, in my 60's it became uncomfortable to carry while driving.

I now carry a Kimber Solo, a 9MM compact with a manual safety. Again I don't even think about the safety when training, I instinctively flip the safety off with no thought.

I would not recommend the Solo for a woman as it is quite hard to rack. It is recommended to fire +P+ loads only so the slide spring is quite strong.

 

[sixGuns]

I primarily lurk, but this is my story, take it how you will... (there is no TLDR)

I am not military or LEO of any flavor, but I love the 1911. It's the pistol I shoot best. Up until two years ago it was my EDC for a decade. I reloaded for it to supply my habit. It's true what they say about reloading. It can save you money, but you will end up shooting more. Ha.

Over the course of 10 years I've reloaded roughly 100,000 rounds of 200 grain LSWC on top of 4.9 grains of Bullseye for myself, father and two uncles. I've never shot competition, but my one uncle has some land and lots of steel. We have a blast, literally and figuratively. During those 10 years I think I was good for about 5,000 rounds down-range annually.

I had guns tuned up by Neil Keller before he retired. I took them all apart to document what he dressed/tuned for trigger jobs and tunings. I bought books, tools and watched videos from most all of the famous 1911 smiths. We're all familiar with Glock "Kool-Aid," but there is 1911 Kool-Aid and I drank it, lots of it.

I knew of the "manually disengaged safety" debate the whole time. I was of the mind it could be trained to be muscle memory. I'd unholster, safety off, fire, repeat, over and over with each shooting session. Naysayers were full of ****. I'm different.

I work from home and summer 2018 changed everything. I lived in an apartment in Ft Wayne at the time and I was upstairs working when it happened. The sound of a glass window shattering echoed through the apartment. Adrenaline go, I was tweaked. Holy ****, this is real. In hindsight I made mistakes, but one I had no control over. My stainless commander was always on my desk next to my mouse. From the room I was in I could see down the stairs to the first floor. Snatching it out of the holster I got up and popped my head out of the room to look down the stairs. For sure a mistake. I could have had my head blown off or be seen and given my position away or that someone was home surprising them escalating the situation.

Still jacked on adrenaline and peering down the stairs I did the next stupid thing. "Hello?" I yelled out. Yes, stupid I know. Then it came, "Maintenance, wind caught the window we were replacing, sorry." Sonofa... ok body we can stop with the adrenaline now. I then realized had I need to shoot it wouldn't have happened. I shoot the 1911 high-thumbs sweeping off the safety and riding it during the course of fire. On this occasion I did not have a high-thumb grip. My finger was straight and off the trigger, but my dominant hand thumb was on the side of the stock, not riding the thumb safety.

I learned a few things from this. I will say, it's possible acting offensively is different than reacting defensively and may tweak things. However, in defense you are reacting to stimuli and fight-or-flight and adrenaline kicks in. This is how we live in a functioning society. We live defensively.

However, when fight-or-flight/adrenaline starts flowing all bets are off. Train all you like, you can't know the unknown. Everything you think you know goes right out the window. Your brain, muscles, vision, it all goes haywire.

I'm hoping/training that should it ever happen again I can act differently on tactics like not popping my head around the corner and announcing my position. I know that you should just stay put and close the door and just wait it out. You do not know their numbers or intent. If you know they are about to breech the room I guess it could be a debate to announce yourself and that you are armed and ready to shoot them should they enter. I have changed a lot of things and now I work on enhancing what the body will do naturally.

This situation changed everything for me. In conclusion...

I will not carry a pistol with a manually disengaged safety.

I will not carry a pistol that does not point "naturally." If Glocks point "right" for you, great, they do not for me. I've tried numerous times and always wind up selling them.

Your vision gets wonky, seriously.

Your muscles, heart rate, everything gets wonky, seriously.

Be able to hit a human-sized silhouette at about 7-10 yards from point-shooting. This is why my pistol must point naturally and why I'm not sold on red-dots yet. If your eyes require a red dot due to medical condition or age so be it, but I'm not totally sold on them yet. The more time you're spending on sight-alignment and dot hunting is only adding to the time deficit from reacting defensively. But, I practice and I don't have trouble aligning sights or dot hunting, I'm different. Good for you. Yes, I know accuracy is important and I'm not saying just blindly fire wildly in all directions.

I enjoy firearms, but I do live in a "functional" society and cannot spend every waking moment like I'm a tier 1 operator on standby. I have responsibilities, friends, family and other things that require my time.

Something in 9mm that points naturally and does not have a manually disengaged safety is what I carry and practice with, 10mm for the woods. Your carry caliber may depend on your physical limitations. I don't do PDW's. I'm not making spaghetti with a PDW or rifle slung, but my pistol is on my hip. My pistol is to get to my rifle should the need arise, or shotgun if that's the thing.

"That's ok, if I get a click when I need a bang, I'll just remember and then blammo, that'll teach 'em." So you like adding to the time-defecit even more? Possibly ensuring that you're shot/stabbed, or something else happens that you don't want where if you weren't you could have prevented/stopped it? Maybe your spouse/child gets it, but hey, you did get that safety off and showed them.

I still have one 1911, but it's a safe queen.

I theorize there is only one way to "test" the individuals response if you are trying to refute my claims. Remove all live ammunition with dummy rounds unknowingly from the test-subjects firearm and manufacture a situation where they truly think the **** is going down and see how they respond.

I blame TV/movies and the super tactical number 1 best cop soldier operator plotlines.

Everyone thinks they are the exception.

This is my philosophy.

I'm certain I've offended or pissed off people.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I primarily lurk, but this is my story, take it how you will... (there is no TLDR)

I am not military or LEO of any flavor, but I love the 1911. It's the pistol I shoot best. Up until two years ago it was my EDC for a decade. I reloaded for it to supply my habit. It's true what they say about reloading. It can save you money, but you will end up shooting more. Ha.

Over the course of 10 years I've reloaded roughly 100,000 rounds of 200 grain LSWC on top of 4.9 grains of Bullseye for myself, father and two uncles. I've never shot competition, but my one uncle has some land and lots of steel. We have a blast, literally and figuratively. During those 10 years I think I was good for about 5,000 rounds down-range annually.

I had guns tuned up by Neil Keller before he retired. I took them all apart to document what he dressed/tuned for trigger jobs and tunings. I bought books, tools and watched videos from most all of the famous 1911 smiths. We're all familiar with Glock "Kool-Aid," but there is 1911 Kool-Aid and I drank it, lots of it.

I knew of the "manually disengaged safety" debate the whole time. I was of the mind it could be trained to be muscle memory. I'd unholster, safety off, fire, repeat, over and over with each shooting session. Naysayers were full of ****. I'm different.

I work from home and summer 2018 changed everything. I lived in an apartment in Ft Wayne at the time and I was upstairs working when it happened. The sound of a glass window shattering echoed through the apartment. Adrenaline go, I was tweaked. Holy ****, this is real. In hindsight I made mistakes, but one I had no control over. My stainless commander was always on my desk next to my mouse. From the room I was in I could see down the stairs to the first floor. Snatching it out of the holster I got up and popped my head out of the room to look down the stairs. For sure a mistake. I could have had my head blown off or be seen and given my position away or that someone was home surprising them escalating the situation.

Still jacked on adrenaline and peering down the stairs I did the next stupid thing. "Hello?" I yelled out. Yes, stupid I know. Then it came, "Maintenance, wind caught the window we were replacing, sorry." Sonofa... ok body we can stop with the adrenaline now. I then realized had I need to shoot it wouldn't have happened. I shoot the 1911 high-thumbs sweeping off the safety and riding it during the course of fire. On this occasion I did not have a high-thumb grip. My finger was straight and off the trigger, but my dominant hand thumb was on the side of the stock, not riding the thumb safety.

I learned a few things from this. I will say, it's possible acting offensively is different than reacting defensively and may tweak things. However, in defense you are reacting to stimuli and fight-or-flight and adrenaline kicks in. This is how we live in a functioning society. We live defensively.

However, when fight-or-flight/adrenaline starts flowing all bets are off. Train all you like, you can't know the unknown. Everything you think you know goes right out the window. Your brain, muscles, vision, it all goes haywire.

I'm hoping/training that should it ever happen again I can act differently on tactics like not popping my head around the corner and announcing my position. I know that you should just stay put and close the door and just wait it out. You do not know their numbers or intent. If you know they are about to breech the room I guess it could be a debate to announce yourself and that you are armed and ready to shoot them should they enter. I have changed a lot of things and now I work on enhancing what the body will do naturally.

This situation changed everything for me. In conclusion...

I will not carry a pistol with a manually disengaged safety.

I will not carry a pistol that does not point "naturally." If Glocks point "right" for you, great, they do not for me. I've tried numerous times and always wind up selling them.

Your vision gets wonky, seriously.

Your muscles, heart rate, everything gets wonky, seriously.

Be able to hit a human-sized silhouette at about 7-10 yards from point-shooting. This is why my pistol must point naturally and why I'm not sold on red-dots yet. If your eyes require a red dot due to medical condition or age so be it, but I'm not totally sold on them yet. The more time you're spending on sight-alignment and dot hunting is only adding to the time deficit from reacting defensively. But, I practice and I don't have trouble aligning sights or dot hunting, I'm different. Good for you. Yes, I know accuracy is important and I'm not saying just blindly fire wildly in all directions.

I enjoy firearms, but I do live in a "functional" society and cannot spend every waking moment like I'm a tier 1 operator on standby. I have responsibilities, friends, family and other things that require my time.

Something in 9mm that points naturally and does not have a manually disengaged safety is what I carry and practice with, 10mm for the woods. Your carry caliber may depend on your physical limitations. I don't do PDW's. I'm not making spaghetti with a PDW or rifle slung, but my pistol is on my hip. My pistol is to get to my rifle should the need arise, or shotgun if that's the thing.

"That's ok, if I get a click when I need a bang, I'll just remember and then blammo, that'll teach 'em." So you like adding to the time-defecit even more? Possibly ensuring that you're shot/stabbed, or something else happens that you don't want where if you weren't you could have prevented/stopped it? Maybe your spouse/child gets it, but hey, you did get that safety off and showed them.

I still have one 1911, but it's a safe queen.

I theorize there is only one way to "test" the individuals response if you are trying to refute my claims. Remove all live ammunition with dummy rounds unknowingly from the test-subjects firearm and manufacture a situation where they truly think the **** is going down and see how they respond.

I blame TV/movies and the super tactical number 1 best cop soldier operator plotlines.

Everyone thinks they are the exception.

This is my philosophy.

I'm certain I've offended or pissed off people.

TLDR; I love 1911's and shoot thousands of rounds annually, and train thoroughly to have everything down to muscle memory. In summer 2018 I heard a window break and thought someone was breaking into my apartment, so I grabbed my gun to go confront them. Turned out it was maintenance who had accidentally broken the window. After I calmed down I saw my thumb was not on the safety like I trained, so if I had ended up needing to shoot, it wouldn't have happened. Since then I won't carry anything with a manual safety.

(Sorry, lol; you said there was no TLDR, and I took that as a dare, so I just had to.

 

[Hookeye]

I sweep for a safety, there or not .

Also dont try to convince a woman of anything.

Mine wanted a J frame, above all else. Had her try one, THAT changed her mind.

I ripped a couple into the X at 21 ft.
So bought it for me.

Well, and just to honk her off LOL.

She is still without handgun. I aint buyin her one either. Adult, she can make her own decision/ purchase.

 

[Gabriel]

Training and practice with a firearm with different (or, in this case, fewer) controls will make her more confident with the new handgun. I can completely see someone's reluctance to carry a Glock after being used to carrying something with an external trigger.

I'm the opposite about carry guns with an external safety. I just won't use one. It has nothing to do with not liking them. It has everything to do with carrying Glocks for nearly 20 years and not having any training or time with something with a safety.

Familiarization and training are the key.