LP Generator

[4sarge]

Well after being w/o power for another 24 hours I feel the need to buy a generator. The neighbors claim that power has been out in this area for up to 3 weeks. I could not afford the propane for an extended outage of 3 weeks but it would be nice to have 24 or so hours of electric capability.

Onan +$$'s
Generac +$'s
BSA +$'s

I could go cheap and try to run a gas unit and only keep the fridge running and 1 or 2 lights.

Again, I hate to spend that much money on what really is a necessity.

Well Water
Refrigerator/Freezer
Lights/TV
Heat or AC

Anyone familiar with these, recommendations, dealer, sales pricing etc.

Thanks

 

[Lars]

Growing up in Waukesha Wisconsin I'm familiar with Generac as a bunch of people I knew worked there.

Outside of that, I dunno anything useful. Sorry

 

[indyjoe]

I'd love to build up a good Lister Engine setup, but there is quite a bit of time and tinkering involved that I don't have right now. However, treated diesel would last for almost a decade and do very well for a decently long term power situation. Many are starting it with diesel and running old fry oil through it. This has many advantages for a TEOTWHAWKI situation.

The problem with Gas generators is that Gas doesn't store long, even when treated. It wouldn't be hard to rotate storage, just filling up cars with it for a while, but you have to do that. Propane and NG generators require tons of fuel. I don't know the right answer.

 

[4sarge]

I'd love to build up a good Lister Engine setup, but there is quite a bit of time and tinkering involved that I don't have right now. However, treated diesel would last for almost a decade and do very well for a decently long term power situation. Many are starting it with diesel and running old fry oil through it. This has many advantages for a TEOTWHAWKI situation.

The problem with Gas generators is that Gas doesn't store long, even when treated. It wouldn't be hard to rotate storage, just filling up cars with it for a while, but you have to do that. Propane and NG generators require tons of fuel. I don't know the right answer.

The LP Gas Automatic Generators are the nuts but fairly expensive to install and operate. The Chinese have saturated the market with cheap diesel units but I worry about their longevity. I have a diesel tractor that probably could run some type of unit but it wouldn't be automatic.

 

[melensdad]

My generator is a tri-fuel, runs on gas, LP and NG. I wrote about it here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ness/5558-shame_on_me_and_shame_on_you-2.html

If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them if I can.

 

[4sarge]

My generator is a tri-fuel, runs on gas, LP and NG. I wrote about it here: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ness/5558-shame_on_me_and_shame_on_you-2.html

If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them if I can.

Thanks, Very interesting thorough article about generators but I hate to hear about the inefficiency of the LP units. I'd hate to drain my 1000 gallon LP tank for a week of electricity. Neighbor has a small gas unit (4000) and he is using at today's prices a minimum of 20 - 30 dollars a day to run that :rolleyesedit:

 

[melensdad]

You must understand that when talking about "efficiency" of these small generators, and anything that you or I might get for our house is basically a small unit, we are talking about glorified lawn tractor engines for most brands. They are what they are and not much more!

When you get up into the 20KW units, which is about the smallest of the generators where water cooled slow RPM engines come into play (1800 rpm versus 3600 rpm) then you can start to get into greater efficiency units. But the last time I checked, and I admit that I have not in great detail looked over the past 12 months, you didn't really find too many of the water cooled, 1600 rpm generators that were smaller sized units.

The question is, how much are you willing to spend for efficiency for something that you HOPE you NEVER have to use, but when you do use it you will spend money running it? I guess I look at these things from the standpoint that even if it costs $25 per day to run my generator on natural gas, I am hopefully only using it for a few days a year. So if mine is a "low" efficiency unit and yours is a "high" efficiency unit then maybe you save 50% of what I spend??? So presume you spend $12.50 per day running yours . . . and presume we both run ours for 5 days per year . . . I will have spent $125 per year while you will have spent $75 . . . over a 10 year period you would save $750. BTW, on some years I've run my generator 5 days, on other years I've probably run it for no more than 12 hours. The worst we had was 8 days in the winter. In the summer if the power goes out you will only run your generator maybe 6 to 12 hours a day to power your well, refrigerators, etc. But there is NO NEED to run them 24/7 during a power failure.

What is the cost difference between the generators? Or do you have to increase the size (and therefor the cost) to get a "high" efficiency unit?

Might be worth it? Like I wrote in the other thread, when I bought mine the choices were a lot slimmer than they are today. Things may be a bit different.

 

[RogerB]

Sarge I found this site helpful. It has a 5 step process that helps you determine what size and type of generator will fit your needs.

Standby Generators - How to Pick the Perfect Standby Generator @ ElectricGeneratorsDirect.com - Home Standby Generator, Emergency Standby Generator, Backup Standby Generator, Emergency Home Standby Generator

I decided to go with a 17.5KW portable versus a stationary perminent fixture type. Considering if the house is partially demolished or otherwise unlivable. Or the local authorities prevent homeowners access to their own homes. What good would it do me, unless I could wheel it around or throw it in a truck or trailer.

 

[4sarge]

Sarge I found this site helpful. It has a 5 step process that helps you determine what size and type of generator will fit your needs.

Standby Generators - How to Pick the Perfect Standby Generator @ ElectricGeneratorsDirect.com - Home Standby Generator, Emergency Standby Generator, Backup Standby Generator, Emergency Home Standby Generator

I decided to go with a 17.5KW portable versus a stationary permanent fixture type. Considering if the house is partially demolished or otherwise unlivable. Or the local authorities prevent homeowners access to their own homes. What good would it do me, unless I could wheel it around or throw it in a truck or trailer.

Thanks for the info. It looks like this generator will only run for 10 hours on 16 gallon of gas and at todays prices that would be about 64 dollars. Does that sound right. The LP Gas models claim to use 1.61 gal per hour which isn't much better cost wise

 

[RogerB]

Thanks for the info. It looks like this generator will only run for 10 hours on 16 gallon of gas and at todays prices that would be about 64 dollars. Does that sound right. The LP Gas models claim to use 1.61 gal per hour which isn't much better cost wise

yes its definitely not a cheap endeavor.... but also keep in mind that you probably wouldn't need to run it non stop 24/7 during an outage, atleast I wouldn't. Just as with any other tool of survival, you would need to use moderation/rationing/metering. Seasonal and weather conditional constraints would probably dictate to some degree on this.

I think I got it from Melens post that the LP and NG models don't produce as much output as those of gas. I'm thinking when I put out the bucks for all this, I'll get two of the 16Gal fuel staorage tanks.

Figure I could rotate it out using it in the various mowers/trimmers/chainsaw/blower tools during some of the summer. Then have both filled up for the winter for JIC scenarios, I hate the friggen cold.

 

[melensdad]

Thanks for the info. It looks like this generator will only run for 10 hours on 16 gallon of gas and at todays prices that would be about 64 dollars. Does that sound right. The LP Gas models claim to use 1.61 gal per hour which isn't much better cost wise

. . .
I think I got it from Melens post that the LP and NG models don't produce as much output as those of gas. I'm thinking when I put out the bucks for all this, I'll get two of the 16Gal fuel staorage tanks. . .

Correct.

If you consider gasoline gives a relative 100% output running any given engine, then the same engine running on propane will only generate about 91% output and the same engine running on natural gas will only generate at roughly 82-83% output.

What that means is that you will get less electricity per running hour on natural gas than you will when powering it with propane and you will get less electricity output running on propane than you will when running on gasoline.

So from the 'efficiency' standpoint, not only do you have to factor in "running time" but you have to factor in "power output."

For example, if a 5 gallon tank of gasoline will run a small generator for 5 hours and provide 10,000 watts per hour you will get 50,000 watts for $20.00. ($4 per gallon x 5 gallons of gas)

If you run the very same generator on LP gas you will generate about 9100 watts per hour so over the same 5 hour period you generate 45,500 watts and use 8.05 gallons of LP at ??? cost. (1.61 gal LP per hour x 5 hours = 8.05 gal LP)


FIRST, you should figure out how many watts you need to generate.

SECOND, you should consider IF you can store enough fuel to run the generator for at least 24 hours.

I personally think the COST TO RUN the generator should be given VERY LITTLE consideration. Again, these generators do not run very often. So the real cost of running a generator is not much per year. On the other hand if you are thinking of using a generator to power your house so you can get off the power grid, then I think you are looking at powering your house the wrong way.

Of much more concern to me is the storage of gasoline. I know some people who have small underground tanks, for those people a gasoline generator is no big problem because they have a safe place to store the fuel. But do you really want to keep 25+/- gallons of gasoline in storage at all times? I personally do not. Also you may want to see if your insurance company voids your homeowners insurance if you store excess gasoline.

When it comes to powering the generator, to me I look at the RELIABILITY OF FUEL SUPPLY as the number 1 consideration.

In my 47 years of life I've not lost my natural gas feed. I've lost power many times. I've lost city water many times. I've run out of gas for my lawn mowers and diesel for my tractors. I've run out of propane for my grill, but I've never run out of or lost access to natural gas. So my #1 choice is natural gas. I use propane and gasoline as my "plan b" options should I ever lose natural gas.

 

[in812]

my .02$ i have a 5500 portable generator i've used for several years for when the power goes out it will run 2 1/2 ton a/c unit light in the house and garage fine but i have a gas stove and hot water heater
just have to make sure the others dont use curling irons or hair dryers but to stay cool have lights tv etc. the 5500 has worked fine
I have a onan i was going to install and hard wire in but it just sits there as a back up
IMO if you need over 5500-6500 for back up you need to start turning some of the stuff you dont need OFF !
Oh and the 5500 also runs the fridge and deep freeze

 

[melensdad]

IMO if you need over 5500-6500 for back up you need to start turning some of the stuff you dont need OFF !

Well I guess I could technically disagree with you, but in principle I do agree.

There are some electric loads that will really pull a lot of power. Starting up and running a 1.5hp deep well water pump draws a good bit of power. I believe the deep freeze and refrigerator also draw quite a bit at start up but far less when running. Furnace motors I believe also work the same way with a heavy draw at start up and a lower draw while running.

When I sized my generator I sized it to handle the 'surge' at start up if several large things hit at once. That said, I do not power my entire house in a major power outage, but my house requires more than 5500 watts. If I didn't have a well pump to worry about I could probably get by with 5500 to 6000 watts.