Long(ish) Range Deer rifle

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

Some decent image scopes reportedly dont track well.

Not every friggin shot requires turret twisting for yardage. But it seems as though many Youtubers are so afflicted. Deer moved a few steps from 275 yards, gotta re-range it and adjust scope. WTH.

I havent shot a deer past 75 yards since the rifle allowance. But have shot em at 150 w shotguns and muzzleloaders. But i shot good systems and it was no big deal.

As for projectile safety....Bacastow study might be worth a look.

People still buy junk, dont practice/ shoot poorly and screw up.

The sighting systems I saw on the range before deer season.....were stupid. Hell see thru rings continue to show up.

Fudds still cling to myths.

lol i learned a lesson this year

I mounted a scope in the rings and on my rifle and zeroed it in the 110 degree weather in texas.

I didn't mark my screws and loctite it and when my rifle literally frosted over my scope was loose in the mount and I skipped a shot off the top of a fallen log right in front of a pretty good size doe opening weekend.

 

[Hookeye]

Heard it again this yr................great bullet, cartridge, rifle, scope blah blah blah.

Dropped the deer DRT!

Uh, it was spine shot. Geeesh.


There are some things that are known to work, yet people try to reinvent the wheel.
Some folks hold onto myths or nonsense, yet have some success.

Been at this a while. The avg deer hunter is a schmuck LOL

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So forgive me for perhaps a flight of fancy but what kind of accuracy does a PTR-91/G3 do with 150 grain ammo?

Half tempted to get one since I have a bit of a collection of cold war rifles/guns going on (Polish AKm, Parts Correct AKS-74N, Air Force Slickside m16, Bulgarian 1983 makarov)

I would only need a G3, FAL, and a Hi power to complete the set

Have purchased several PTR-91s for nephews. Usually shoot 147s (I had a pile of RSA ammo)*. Get about 3.5 MOA from bench.

Likely better if roll your own or COTS ammo. PTR-91 can do either 7.62 or .308.

Nephew #2 has PTR-91 OD and uses SIG Bravo3 and an aftermarket trigger, cannot remember which brand (the rollers have just vile triggers unless you are talking PE57/AMT).

*BE ADVISED that if you get ahold of the RSA stuff (and the frickin' stuff from Oz) all are sealed primers for End of Days, so clean your flutes when that sealant gets vaporized, also both are loaded on the hot side, likely for MGs, and shoots high (and I like a lolipop hold)

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Heard it again this yr................great bullet, cartridge, rifle, scope blah blah blah.

Dropped the deer DRT!

Uh, it was spine shot. Geeesh.


There are some things that are known to work, yet people try to reinvent the wheel.
Some folks hold onto myths or nonsense, yet have some success.

Been at this a while. The avg deer hunter is a schmuck LOL

Rifles are like puppies, they take time and love.

If you are running kids to soccer, PTA meetings, inter alia, time becomes a pressing commodity. Substitutes are attempted.

Schmuck? Nah, too strong, distracted human is more appropriate.

 

[chezuki]

I picked up a brand new Savage 110 in .308 with a Vortex Diamondback from RK a couple weeks ago for $630. It’s a lot of gun for the money.

 

[Hookeye]

"distracted"? LOL new code word I guess.

 

[Hookeye]

Still kicking around the idea of a .257 Weatherby mag w a 4-12X leupold.
Mostly for yotes but maybe for mule deer.

 

[roscott]

Skip the PTR. Too heavy and inaccurate for what you’re doing.

Grendel is a great round and from a rifle has plenty of mustard for 400 on deer with the right bullet. Have shot antelope out to 300 with Grendel, and loads of deer closer with shorter barrels.

Buy a rifle with sufficient velocity for the distance you want to hunt, and as little recoil as possible to do the job. Recoil will make it harder to be accurate and prevent you from practicing.

Expect to be half as good under pressure as you are at the range. So if you want to hit 8” deer vitals at 400 yards, you need to be able to reliably hit 4” at 400. Most shots on deer are much closer, but it’s nice to be able to take the shot if presented. My longest shot on a deer in indiana was 304 yds, so it can happen.

Savage wouldn’t be my first choice. Tikka is a great option. Ruger Americans are accurate shooters but fit and finish is mediocre.

Buy quality glass that tracks and can handle some bumps without losing zero. Take a good look at the link natdscott posted, and take a look at the drop tests the guys on Rokslide are doing. Buy quality rings and mount your scope correctly.

Most importantly, shoot the snot out of whatever you get. Training is how you identify your shortcomings prior to the heat of the moment.

 

[YoungMilsurpGuy]

Skip the PTR. Too heavy and inaccurate for what you’re doing.

Grendel is a great round and from a rifle has plenty of mustard for 400 on deer with the right bullet. Have shot antelope out to 300 with Grendel, and loads of deer closer with shorter barrels.

Buy a rifle with sufficient velocity for the distance you want to hunt, and as little recoil as possible to do the job. Recoil will make it harder to be accurate and prevent you from practicing.

Expect to be half as good under pressure as you are at the range. So if you want to hit 8” deer vitals at 400 yards, you need to be able to reliably hit 4” at 400. Most shots on deer are much closer, but it’s nice to be able to take the shot if presented. My longest shot on a deer in indiana was 304 yds, so it can happen.

Savage wouldn’t be my first choice. Tikka is a great option. Ruger Americans are accurate shooters but fit and finish is mediocre.

Buy quality glass that tracks and can handle some bumps without losing zero. Take a good look at the link natdscott posted, and take a look at the drop tests the guys on Rokslide are doing. Buy quality rings and mount your scope correctly.

Most importantly, shoot the snot out of whatever you get. Training is how you identify your shortcomings prior to the heat of the moment.

I hear you on the glass

I'm looking hard at a Trijicon 2.5-10x instead of shooting, whatever 3x9 Bushnell low end vortex crap that comes bundled with the budget rifles

i'm also looking for slightly heavier profile barrels and the magpul stock for a bit of a heavier gun and a threaded barrel for a suppressor or muzzle brake.

That should make 308 pleasant enough to shoot and also in that chambering I should be able to shoot m80 ball that is close enough to the 150ish grain deer ammo and I can reload the brass and i don't have to worry so much about barrel life.

I plan to shoot the gun regularly at my local club and over the summer and early autumn. Take it out to some of the longer ranges and confirm my holds at 250 300 350 and 400 yards with the hand loads I'm going to hunt with so I don't go broke.

I'm including in the initial purchase price dies powder projectiles and a pound of powder as well as 250 rounds of ball ammo

 

[Mij]

I hear you on the glass

I'm looking hard at a Trijicon 2.5-10x instead of shooting, whatever 3x9 Bushnell low end vortex crap that comes bundled with the budget rifles

i'm also looking for slightly heavier profile barrels and the magpul stock for a bit of a heavier gun and a threaded barrel for a suppressor or muzzle brake.

That should make 308 pleasant enough to shoot and also in that chambering I should be able to shoot m80 ball that is close enough to the 150ish grain deer ammo and I can reload the brass and i don't have to worry so much about barrel life.

I plan to shoot the gun regularly at my local club and over the summer and early autumn. Take it out to some of the longer ranges and confirm my holds at 250 300 350 and 400 yards with the hand loads I'm going to hunt with so I don't go broke.

I'm including in the initial purchase price dies powder projectiles and a pound of powder as well as 250 rounds of ball ammo

For the good of INGO please remember to post the 400 yard ranges that allow joe six pack to shoot. A lot of folks look hard for that info.

I do realize you may be talking about private ranges.

 

[two70]

For the good of INGO please remember to post the 400 yard ranges that allow joe six pack to shoot. A lot of folks look hard for that info.

I do realize you may be talking about private ranges.

Bass and Bucks

 

[jonkertb]

I hear you on the glass

I'm looking hard at a Trijicon 2.5-10x instead of shooting, whatever 3x9 Bushnell low end vortex crap that comes bundled with the budget rifles

i'm also looking for slightly heavier profile barrels and the magpul stock for a bit of a heavier gun and a threaded barrel for a suppressor or muzzle brake.

That should make 308 pleasant enough to shoot and also in that chambering I should be able to shoot m80 ball that is close enough to the 150ish grain deer ammo and I can reload the brass and i don't have to worry so much about barrel life.

I plan to shoot the gun regularly at my local club and over the summer and early autumn. Take it out to some of the longer ranges and confirm my holds at 250 300 350 and 400 yards with the hand loads I'm going to hunt with so I don't go broke.

I'm including in the initial purchase price dies powder projectiles and a pound of powder as well as 250 rounds of ball ammo

With Milsurp in your handle it screams to me K31 Swiss, 7x57 Mauser and the list goes on. Why not put an old war horse to work? I imagine the delights of searching and buying something new are in play. We all are susceptible to that chrome fever but using an 80+ year old milsurp rifle has an appeal all its own!

 

[Purdue1991]

Some decent image scopes reportedly dont track well.

Not every friggin shot requires turret twisting for yardage. But it seems as though many Youtubers are so afflicted. Deer moved a few steps from 275 yards, gotta re-range it and adjust scope. WTH.

I havent shot a deer past 75 yards since the rifle allowance. But have shot em at 150 w shotguns and muzzleloaders. But i shot good systems and it was no big deal.

As for projectile safety....Bacastow study might be worth a look.

People still buy junk, dont practice/ shoot poorly and screw up.

The sighting systems I saw on the range before deer season.....were stupid. Hell see thru rings continue to show up.

Fudds still cling to myths.

This is exactly right.

1) Not sure why everyone thinks they're a sniper? I would be comfortable saying 90% of deer in Indiana are taken inside 100 yards. I've been deer hunting for over 30 years. I've never shot a deer past 200 yards, and I hunt in an elevated blind on the edge of a cornfield where I could easily take 400 yard shots. Could I have shot a doe at that distance? Sure. But why?

2) Know your specific cartridge ballistics. If you're shooting a 308 or anything similar, you'll likely be able to take a deer at 200 yards or more with zero holdover. There's no need to muck around with tactical turrets on a rifle at 400 yards or less.

3) Most people are going to be disappointed in what they shoot at 400 yards, if they're trophy hunting. Good luck being able to identify that trophy deer at that distance.

4). Most rifles at a reasonable price (TC Venture, Savage 110, Ruger American, CVA Cascade, and even the Savage Axis) are going to outshoot the operator. You can buy a $1,000+ rifle and an $800 scope if you want to brag about it to your buddies. But it's totally unnecessary for Indiana deer hunting. Going elk hunting out west? Well, that's a different story.

5). Please, please, please don't buy magnum cartridge guns for Indiana deer hunting. First of all, your shoulder will thank you later. Secondly, not many people are going to handle the recoil of a 300 Win Mag accurately. 30-06 is almost overkill.

 

[duanewade]

This is exactly right.

1) Not sure why everyone thinks they're a sniper? I would be comfortable saying 90% of deer in Indiana are taken inside 100 yards. I've been deer hunting for over 30 years. I've never shot a deer past 200 yards, and I hunt in an elevated blind on the edge of a cornfield where I could easily take 400 yard shots. Could I have shot a doe at that distance? Sure. But why?

2) Know your specific cartridge ballistics. If you're shooting a 308 or anything similar, you'll likely be able to take a deer at 200 yards or more with zero holdover. There's no need to muck around with tactical turrets on a rifle at 400 yards or less.

3) Most people are going to be disappointed in what they shoot at 400 yards, if they're trophy hunting. Good luck being able to identify that trophy deer at that distance.

4). Most rifles at a reasonable price (TC Venture, Savage 110, Ruger American, CVA Cascade, and even the Savage Axis) are going to outshoot the operator. You can buy a $1,000+ rifle and an $800 scope if you want to brag about it to your buddies. But it's totally unnecessary for Indiana deer hunting. Going elk hunting out west? Well, that's a different story.

5). Please, please, please don't buy magnum cartridge guns for Indiana deer hunting. First of all, your shoulder will thank you later. Secondly, not many people are going to handle the recoil of a 300 Win Mag accurately. 30-06 is almost overkill.

+1 on everything stated.

My longest shot taken was 250 paces from my deer stand with a .243 H&R single shot rifle (paid less than 2 bills for it 15 years ago). Good thing my stand has a rest otherwise the shot never would have been taken.

That cheap single shot had a Nikon scope that cost me about the same as the rifle. I have no doubt in my mind that from a good rest that I could take a deer at 400 yards as it would shoot 3 shots in 1 ragged hole at 100 yards. I just don't get the idea that more $$ spent is a better hunting package.

 

[Hawkeye7br]

Just do your research on whose scopes actually MOVE STRAIGHT, and HOLD a move.

Glass is overrated. A sighting system--of any kind--that will move precisely and hold what it was asked to hold...

...well, that cannot be overvalued. It's the only connection your bullet has to the path you need it to follow.

Lots of brands and expensive crystal actually perform like sh** in terms of just being a good sight.

I didn't realize that until I spent some time shooting tiny groups with very, very good irons. Irons that can be measured and verified to have moved or not.

Take a look here; might raise your eyebrows a bit. It's far from comprehensive--lacks target Sightrons and MicroTrac Weavers, for example-- but a decent brand coverage of modern glass.

Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

Buy adjustment accuracy and durability FIRST,
--then by glass optical quality,
--then by features (illumination, adjustable parallax, in that order),
--and only finally by objective size.

Lighter (36-44mm objectives) is better.

30mm tubes are better for durability and range of internal adjustment, but heavier.

With good mechanics, I'd hunt with a 24mm objective no-name scope rather than a really bright, huge-belled POS that won't hold what I told it to hold, or move where I need it to.



..I digress. Looksee the chart.

According to the chart, only Kahles scopes showed 100% tracking, with Razor Gen 2 essentially the same with 11 of 12 samples at 100% and one at 99.8%. Other brands or models with 100% tracking had much fewer samples.

Where does someone draw the line on what they consider reliable tracking? I would have considered virtually all of the scopes tested to be within the margin of the accuracy ability of my rifle.

 

[Hawkeye7br]

This is exactly right.

1) Not sure why everyone thinks they're a sniper? I would be comfortable saying 90% of deer in Indiana are taken inside 100 yards. I've been deer hunting for over 30 years. I've never shot a deer past 200 yards, and I hunt in an elevated blind on the edge of a cornfield where I could easily take 400 yard shots. Could I have shot a doe at that distance? Sure. But why?

2) Know your specific cartridge ballistics. If you're shooting a 308 or anything similar, you'll likely be able to take a deer at 200 yards or more with zero holdover. There's no need to muck around with tactical turrets on a rifle at 400 yards or less.

3) Most people are going to be disappointed in what they shoot at 400 yards, if they're trophy hunting. Good luck being able to identify that trophy deer at that distance.

4). Most rifles at a reasonable price (TC Venture, Savage 110, Ruger American, CVA Cascade, and even the Savage Axis) are going to outshoot the operator. You can buy a $1,000+ rifle and an $800 scope if you want to brag about it to your buddies. But it's totally unnecessary for Indiana deer hunting. Going elk hunting out west? Well, that's a different story.

5). Please, please, please don't buy magnum cartridge guns for Indiana deer hunting. First of all, your shoulder will thank you later. Secondly, not many people are going to handle the recoil of a 300 Win Mag accurately. 30-06 is almost overkill.

+2 on everything said

 

[natdscott]

This is exactly right.

1) Not sure why everyone thinks they're a sniper? I would be comfortable saying 90% of deer in Indiana are taken inside 100 yards. I've been deer hunting for over 30 years. I've never shot a deer past 200 yards, and I hunt in an elevated blind on the edge of a cornfield where I could easily take 400 yard shots. Could I have shot a doe at that distance? Sure. But why?

2) Know your specific cartridge ballistics. If you're shooting a 308 or anything similar, you'll likely be able to take a deer at 200 yards or more with zero holdover. There's no need to muck around with tactical turrets on a rifle at 400 yards or less.

3) Most people are going to be disappointed in what they shoot at 400 yards, if they're trophy hunting. Good luck being able to identify that trophy deer at that distance.

4). Most rifles at a reasonable price (TC Venture, Savage 110, Ruger American, CVA Cascade, and even the Savage Axis) are going to outshoot the operator. You can buy a $1,000+ rifle and an $800 scope if you want to brag about it to your buddies. But it's totally unnecessary for Indiana deer hunting. Going elk hunting out west? Well, that's a different story.

5). Please, please, please don't buy magnum cartridge guns for Indiana deer hunting. First of all, your shoulder will thank you later. Secondly, not many people are going to handle the recoil of a 300 Win Mag accurately. 30-06 is almost overkill.

+1 on everything stated.

My longest shot taken was 250 paces from my deer stand with a .243 H&R single shot rifle (paid less than 2 bills for it 15 years ago). Good thing my stand has a rest otherwise the shot never would have been taken.

That cheap single shot had a Nikon scope that cost me about the same as the rifle. I have no doubt in my mind that from a good rest that I could take a deer at 400 yards as it would shoot 3 shots in 1 ragged hole at 100 yards. I just don't get the idea that more $$ spent is a better hunting package.

I don't disagree with some of your points, and have made some of them before also, however, this is a:

"Long(ish) Range Deer rifle" thread.

So, answering that is what many have done.

 

[natdscott]

According to the chart, only Kahles scopes showed 100% tracking, with Razor Gen 2 essentially the same with 11 of 12 samples at 100% and one at 99.8%. Other brands or models with 100% tracking had much fewer samples.

Where does someone draw the line on what they consider reliable tracking? I would have considered virtually all of the scopes tested to be within the margin of the accuracy ability of my rifle.

If it won't track reliably enough, or hold zero well enough for me to trust my life with it, then I will not hunt with it...

...and I am not inherently trusting.

I have killed scopes. It's somewhere between heartbreaking and dangerous.

Drop testing, tracking and return-to-zero verification, temperature tests, "click"-to-impact value verification, base and ring bedding, parallax verification, index marking all equipment interfaces, index marking all zeroes, index marking all focus and parallax settings, checking batteries if applicable.....


...I recognize that some have no use for most of that.

I further recognize that many more DO need to, and are not aware of their need, or refuse to acknowledge it.

Nobody has to take long range shots, or be prepared to do so.

This guy is asking how, so kudos to him for looking for help before slinging lead and hoping for the best.

 

[two70]

This is exactly right.

1) Not sure why everyone thinks they're a sniper? I would be comfortable saying 90% of deer in Indiana are taken inside 100 yards. I've been deer hunting for over 30 years. I've never shot a deer past 200 yards, and I hunt in an elevated blind on the edge of a cornfield where I could easily take 400 yard shots. Could I have shot a doe at that distance? Sure. But why?

2) Know your specific cartridge ballistics. If you're shooting a 308 or anything similar, you'll likely be able to take a deer at 200 yards or more with zero holdover. There's no need to muck around with tactical turrets on a rifle at 400 yards or less.

3) Most people are going to be disappointed in what they shoot at 400 yards, if they're trophy hunting. Good luck being able to identify that trophy deer at that distance.

4). Most rifles at a reasonable price (TC Venture, Savage 110, Ruger American, CVA Cascade, and even the Savage Axis) are going to outshoot the operator. You can buy a $1,000+ rifle and an $800 scope if you want to brag about it to your buddies. But it's totally unnecessary for Indiana deer hunting. Going elk hunting out west? Well, that's a different story.

5). Please, please, please don't buy magnum cartridge guns for Indiana deer hunting. First of all, your shoulder will thank you later. Secondly, not many people are going to handle the recoil of a 300 Win Mag accurately. 30-06 is almost overkill.

I agree with most of what you posted here, however, there is a lot more to a quality rifle than being capable of printing small groups. Personally, I couldn't care less how accurate a rifle is if it won't feed reliably without being babied and massaged into it. The same goes for rifles that have flimsy plastic stocks that only magnify recoil. No MOA guarantee and very few of the groups claimed on the internet are achieved with anything remotely like a hunting bullet anyway.

The hell of it is, one doesn't have to spend $1,000 to get a quality rifle, with some careful and patient shopping one can get a much better one than those mentioned for a few $100 more. With the same careful shopping one can often find a great used rifle for a price similar to the "budget" rifles.

 

[natdscott]

The hell of it is, one doesn't have to spend $1,000 to get a quality rifle, with some careful and patient shopping one can get a much better one than those mentioned for a few $100 more. With the same careful shopping one can often find a great used rifle for a price similar to the "budget" rifles.

Problem is--and I know you know this--that to shop carefully, a shooter has to know the difference.

And the problem THERE is that guys are generally terrible at asking for help because it might indicate they don't know everything.

...and the dealers/sellers, IF they know, sure aren't there to help.

Never-overheard-much-less-answered-at-the-1500:

"Why are there wear marks and scratches on this bolt lug, and not the other one?"